Drew Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 What happens when apes jumping 45' out of a tree, hit an immovable object. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DWA Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Ridiing a fairly stout tree to the ground, then jumping off at a considerably lower elevation than 45 feet, is likely what happened. Unless someone has a better explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIB Posted June 20, 2014 Moderator Share Posted June 20, 2014 I don't think that bringing down a 24" 100' tall tree, from the higher branches would have any evolutionary benefit. The individuals that were predisposed to do that would not pass on their genes as regularly as the ones that pushed over dead trees from the ground. Don't be so sure. Neither does bungee jumping or auto racing or playing drums but it seems to get some guys laid which has at least the evolutionary benefit of being given a chance to pass on your genes. Who the heck knows what impresses a female sasquatch giving the male sasquatch a greater opportunity to pass along his genes? Sometimes caution is not the most selective trait. MIB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DWA Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 ^^^What impresses me about the positions of sasquatch proponents: they draw the direct connections between what is observed in this primate and in others. What doesn't impress me about skeptics: They don't even look at other primates to see the connections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Ridiing a fairly stout tree to the ground, then jumping off at a considerably lower elevation than 45 feet, is likely what happened. Likely. Sometimes caution is not the most selective trait. Bingo. Thinking that evolution only favors the least risky, most efficient traits and penalizes all the others is remarkably flat thinking. The skydiving daredevil will, all other things being equal, get more attention from a certain cohort of eligible mates than the bookish shut-in. Think of rams that smash their heads together or pretty much *any* violent display or contest between animals looking to attract mates. Sometimes, it ends very badly for one or both, but usually it ends up with one getting multiple chances to pass along their genes. Risk/reward is an important driver in evolution, not just efficiency and safety. ^^^What impresses me about the positions of sasquatch proponents: they draw the direct connections between what is observed in this primate and in others. What doesn't impress me about skeptics: They don't even look at other primates to see the connections. Interesting, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotter Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Figured I'd post this vid of a primate climbing a tree, breaking off the top and hitting the ground. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DWA Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) Bingo. Thinking that evolution only favors the least risky, most efficient traits and penalizes all the others is remarkably flat thinking. The skydiving daredevil will, all other things being equal, get more attention from a certain cohort of eligible mates than the bookish shut-in. Think of rams that smash their heads together or pretty much *any* violent display or contest between animals looking to attract mates. Sometimes, it ends very badly for one or both, but usually it ends up with one getting multiple chances to pass along their genes. Risk/reward is an important driver in evolution, not just efficiency and safety. For only one thing, it's been shown that when female lions hear recordings of lion roars, they "count them" and don't move on them if it sounds like the recordings represent more than their own number. Males? Record three lions roaring at them and they charge the recording. What dictates the difference? Those males are more likely to pass along their genes. Those females are more likely to bear young. www.researchgate.net/...Roaring...lions.../9fcfd5065a75136... Edited June 20, 2014 by DWA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1980squatch Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I totally understand how incredible X is and our experiences there and how uncomfortable what we're experiencing must be to people of a certain mental perspective. It is getting to the point of the mental perspective of anyone who is not there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Figured I'd post this vid of a primate climbing a tree, breaking off the top and hitting the ground. Evolution is so going to own that guys butt. It is getting to the point of the mental perspective of anyone who is not there... I don't think so, but if that's the case I can save myself the effort and come back once we've got our proof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSA Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Figured I'd post this vid of a primate climbing a tree, breaking off the top and hitting the ground. ;-) Ooomph. THAT's gonna leave a mark. Note to self: Frozen fir=brittle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lightheart Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I have seen a number of trees in my areas that would appear to have been brought down in this manner. I have found myself wondering how this was done and came to the conclusion that weight was used as a leverage to bring down the tree. A few of these trees were downed in such a way as to precisely cause them to fall into an adjacent tree that had a fork to catch and wedge it. The bark has been removed all the way up from these trees. Bipto I agree with your list of reasons why they climb trees ....especially the strategic benefits. I have heard a number of warnings coming from these trees in the form of knocking,rock tapping, unusual bird sounds, etc, The oak trees in my areas grow close together and their branches form a perfect highway for the younger ones to travel. I have also thought that the adults use the trees too but as you said do not leap from tree to tree like the smaller ones. I think their arm strength is so great that even though they do not have the perfect feet for climbing it does not hinder them in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1980squatch Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I don't think so, but if that's the case I can save myself the effort and come back once we've got our proof. Could it maybe have been a 2 ft circumference tree and not diameter?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DWA Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) For only one thing, it's been shown that when female lions hear recordings of lion roars, they "count them" and don't move on them if it sounds like the recordings represent more than their own number. Males? Record three lions roaring at them and they charge the recording. What dictates the difference? Those males are more likely to pass along their genes. Those females are more likely to bear young. www.researchgate.net/...Roaring...lions.../9fcfd5065a75136... Apologize for the bad link. It downloads direct to your hard drive when you open it. Try for these (one for males and one for females; the latter incorporates findings for males). http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0003347284710529 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/000334729580157X They're the abstracts; but as I said one can search on and download the full papers. Edited June 20, 2014 by DWA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Regarding the fall from the 20' tall Fir tree. Force of a 700 pound creature falling from that height Approximately 52000 Newtons Force of a 200 pound creature falling from that height Approximately 15000 Newtons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Could it maybe have been a 2 ft circumference tree and not diameter?? Nope. It was reported to be approximately two feet in diameter. More math... The calculations I did made some assumptions, but it did give the general magnitude of what kind of force would need to be generated. It did give me a sense that it is possible, but only possible for a something strong enough to do so. That's all I was really trying to figure out. Just to see if it passed the "sniff" test.1500 lbs of force with a lever arm of 45 feet, is 67,500 ft-lbs of torque (45 x 1500). That's a lot of torque generated. An ape would have to climb pretty high to generate the kind of torque required. So, in the future, if we hear a tree cracking and popping...look up high, because that's where they probably are. As a comparison, a full size standard truck will generate somewhere between 300 to 400 ft-lbs of torque. This gives you a sense of the kind of torque required to break a tree of that size. But with a long enough lever arm (45 feet) and a strong enough force (1500 lbs +/-) it is doable. Suffice it to say, we were pretty darn skeptical that any animal could bust a healthy 2 foot diameter tree like that. With enough observation, though, we found out how they were doing it. Leverage. Regarding the fall from the 20' tall Fir tree. Force of a 700 pound creature falling from that height Approximately 52000 Newtons Force of a 200 pound creature falling from that height Approximately 15000 Newtons How much force can their femurs and other bones absorb? How much force are they absorbing by not just flopping onto the ground but using their muscles help absorb the energy? How much force is mitigated because they're using other foliage to slow themselves down? What if you combine all three? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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