Guest Stan Norton Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Looks more like sasloth to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmaker Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) WSA, why do you refuse to accept as a response, " I don't know what did it, but I know what could not have done it?" You seem determined to keep bigfoot in the scenario one way or another when it simply makes no sense how that could be possible. Your attempts to force an explanation out of people I find rather curious. Just because I accept that no animal could have done what is being claimed here, does not mean that I am forced to provide you with an alternate explanation that you will accept and that if I do not, then somehow bigfoot stays on the table. Edited June 23, 2014 by dmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1980squatch Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 As Drew points out, this is not a skeptic vrs. proponent argument, or at least should not be. Physics denies the event as described (20-24inch diameter healthy tree broken near base) to BF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotter Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Oh Dear Heavens. You would risk falling to try and see if a 700 pound Bigfoot had shaken a 24" diameter tree, and snapped it off at the trunk? This is not smart, even if it works... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I'm just glad you aren't in the ER nursing a broken leg! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotter Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 To add to the tree discussion. Was the tree 24" at the base?I doubt it would maintain the 24" consistently to the tree top. What type of Oak tree? black oak bur oak cherrybark oak laurel oak live oak Oregon white oak overcup oak post oak pin oak northern red oak scarlet oak Shumard oak Also, without knowing the condition of the tree prior to the break, who knows how much force it would take to topple it. I am in the 'i don't know, but am not ruling anything out' camp. We simply do not have enough info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuchi1 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Looks more like sasloth to me... Yes, the Southern variety. Last known words were: ..."here, hold my beer & watch this"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I would think Bipto meant it was 24" at the breaking point. He also said the tree looked healthy. A tree is built to withstand huge loads at the upper reaches of it's canopy. A tree canopy is like a sail, with the each leave and branch catching wind and exerting immense forces on the trunk. The amount of force generated by a healthy tree canopy in a robust wind is going to outweigh the force of a shimmying primate at 45' up the trunk by tons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotter Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I'm just glad you aren't in the ER nursing a broken leg! LOL! I appreciate your concern, now for the guy in the pic, I've no idea if he made it out of the tree alive (it was just a plucked google image). Figgered it would be good for a smile after pages and pages of oak tree breaking discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stan Norton Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Bracket fungus mycelia would be one plausible explanation for a lower trunk snap. Got no idea how much force it might take to force a snap in that scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) My 90 foot tall tree, with canopy on 60% of it's height, would exert 195,000 pounds of force on the tree trunk, in a 50 mph wind, with 30% crown density Table 3: The estimated force (total pounds of force) on tree crowns across various heights in feet and various living crown ratios (total height of living crown/total height of tree) under standard conditions. Standard conditions are 30% crown density (30% drag on wind) and 50mph wind velocity. http://warnell.forestry.uga.edu/service/library/index.php3?docID=400&docHistory%5B%5D=2&docHistory%5B%5D=413 Edited June 23, 2014 by Drew 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotter Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I would think Bipto meant it was 24" at the breaking point. He also said the tree looked healthy. A tree is built to withstand huge loads at the upper reaches of it's canopy. A tree canopy is like a sail, with the each leave and branch catching wind and exerting immense forces on the trunk. The amount of force generated by a healthy tree canopy in a robust wind is going to outweigh the force of a shimmying primate at 45' up the trunk by tons. 10-4. 'looked' healthy and healthy are 2 different things. And I do agree, a truly live, healthy tree should be able to withstand the forces. But I don't think Bipto is a botanist, or herbologist, or treeologist or whatever the heck those people are that know the ins and outs of trees. In the scenario described, I don't think the tree would have fallen if it was indeed 'healthy'. BF or no BF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSA Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 "WSA, why do you refuse to accept as a response, " I don't know what did it, but I know what could not have done it?" Really, just because the only science proposed is a nice hand drawn illustration (really Drew, nice work there) and disbelief. That, and no alternate explanation, at all. Mechanical vibration is a complex thing, as anyone knows who has seen the Tacoma Narrows Bridge self-destruct. Oscillation, amplitude and dampening all must be accounted for. A large object oscillating the top of a tree is as different from a periodic wind gust as night is from day. A child exerting momentum at the apex of the arc of a swing generates an incredible amount of force that doesn't result if the child pumps at random, like wind shaking a tree. That is why your average playground swing has a steel chain to withstand the centrifugal force a 60 lb. child can exert. Any child who has ever gotten off on swaying the tip/top of a tree (guilty!) can tell you just how scary it gets, and how fast it gets there if your timing is good. Has any of this been noted here, so far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) WSA, as a person who has sat in 24" diameter trees in a tree stand, I can tell you first hand, that the only time that tree trunk moves, is when the wind hits it. I couldn't generate enough force to even start to think about moving it from my tree stand. Now I'm only at 15' up in the tree, but even still, if I was three times higher, in a tree that weights in excess of 5000 pounds, it's not going to do anything to the 24" trunk down below. Edited June 23, 2014 by Drew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockape Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I would like to present a roughly scaled image I created, to show the absurdity of this situation. The mass of a 24" diameter tree DWARFS the mass of a 700 lb Ape. Does anyone honestly think that a 24" hardwood tree would be snapped off by such a minuscule dynamic force? You actually spent time making a drawing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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