WSA Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 If you think it is that easily explained, or if you think others wouldn't also look at those explanations first, then you really are not looking at the question very seriously. It is not that easy, or simple, or it would have been answered by now. I'd encourage you to go a little deepr than that, ask some questions and check your incredulity at the door.
Cotter Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Sunflower, I spend plenty of time in the woods. I have never seen or heard anything that I would attribute to " the hairy people". Everything that I have seen can easily be attributed to common causes. That's what the bigfoot WANT you to think!
dmaker Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 If you think it is that easily explained, or if you think others wouldn't also look at those explanations first, then you really are not looking at the question very seriously. It is not that easy, or simple, or it would have been answered by now. I'd encourage you to go a little deepr than that, ask some questions and check your incredulity at the door. That is very ironic. When you look at the question free of bigfoot bias the mystery vanishes. The questions can be easily and simply answered. The problem is that bigfoot enthusiasts refuse to accept the mundane answer in favor of replacing it with bigfoot. Serious inquiry indeed.... Ruling out everything but one possibility is certainly a way to arrive at the answer, but proposing a theory of what did cause it, and testing it (if just in a theoretical way) seems a surer path. We get a lot of effort expended on how BF could not possibly do this, that or the other. All well and good, and lots of fun to be had in the process, but what about something that could be responsible? Not as easy, and not nearly as much fun, but much more valuable. I cannot argue with that logic. But let me ask you this: how would you test a theory that involves a bigfoot? Would you not require, you know, a bigfoot to test it with?
indiefoot Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 ^^^ So you are suggesting that weather, disease, or pest caused several large trees to break and fall at area x? Trees that coincidentally had large hairy animals among their branches? Is that how Occam's Razor works?
WSA Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Like I said, dmaker, respectfully, if you think that, you've not looked at it closely. There are tree artifacts found in the N.A. woodland that don't fit those aofnswers. Yes, you would think of those first, and do you really and truly believe somebody wouldn't think of that first? Trust me, they have. I honestly can't give you an answer to that second question, and I think that is what we're all wrestling with here, so I'm not alone. Some will tell you they've tested it by seeing it done, or seeing the immediate aftermath, but I know this is not what you're asking. I will say Drew's analysis has the possibility of getting closer than most if it were taken a little further. Instead of trying to make it not work (which is his presumed intent) how about turning it around to see if there is a possibility it could work. What would it take? What variables would contribute to it happening? There is no harm in doing that if it helps understanding. If you've ever seen that show "Myth Busters", you'll know what I'm talking about. When they "bust" a myth, they then always amp up the variables to the point where they CAN make it happen. It makes for better understanding. Hey.....maybe we should call them on this one? I can't frame an entire hypothesis, but the conditions might include: A drought weakened/diseased/structurally compromised tree, and/or a tree leaning or growing on a slope A sufficient (?) weight at a high enough point up the tree to provide flexibility for oscillation The weight being capable of timing the oscillation of the tree to makimize increases in amplitude and overcome dampening Might the load being applied need to counter/coincide with the areas of reaction wood in the stem? (Most all trees do not grow in complete symmetry, most often as a result of sunlight, slope, prevailing winds and moisture). Does that matter? What else? Is fatigue of the material possible in a woody stem? I'm not sure I've ever had that question come up in my experiences. Edited June 24, 2014 by WSA
dmaker Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 ^^ Yes, you have all of the components except the bigfoot. So how would you test? Would you not require an actual specimen before you could conduct your test otherwise all you have is speculation for that actor part in the scenario. How much does a bigfoot actually weight? Do they truly climb trees and sway about? etc. etc. You could test things like a bear because we have documented bears and their behavior and we also have specimens, plenty of them, to analyze.
Drew Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 How are you going to get a 700 pound volunteer to test the probability that they could survive a 45 foot fall by leaping off of the tree at the last second, and land on a soft spot, without getting clobbered by a canopy full of 4-12" diameter branches falling all a about?
Drew Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 June has had some powerful winds in SE Oklahoma, some have even come from some unusual directions. June 14-19th (19th the day of the incident?) There were 4-5 consecutive days of 25mph gusts Maybe the grey object was a bunch of bark ripping off the tree as it fell. Seems more plausible
Yuchi1 Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Hunted (over the ridge from the "area") on days the south wind made a huge roaring noise (akin to jet blast) in the trees as it came over the top of the mountain. Was loud enough that visual contact was the first stimuli engaged when game would come by as it was next to impossible to hear them. Also, being 18' up in a 45' pine tree was quite the ride as well.
Drew Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 Love being in a Pine Tree during a windstorm. I have swayed probably 10" horizontally at 15' up in a tree.
WSA Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 I think looking at wind gusts surely would be informative, as well as the natural dampening effect of the branches needles/leaves, depending. What I'm getting at though is the repetitive oscillation with ever increasing amplitude that comes from exerting momentum at the apex in each direction.Wind gusts just don't do that with that degree of periodic and consistent force. Trees are adapted to withstanding wind forces and, MOST do that quite well. I'm watching a huge loblolly outside my window right now and a storm is blowing in. The needles and trunk are swaying and swirling in all directions, but no direction consistently. Yes, it is probably of the size described in this event in question, and yes, it is hard to imagine what kind of force could break it, absent any wind. As for how to test that, and as to what variables you'd consider, I think you can't go further until you have more details. I do appreciate you guys just hearing me out on this point though.
1980squatch Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 This just does not need to be tested. Hoist a weight that size up a healthy 2ft diameter tree with some extra ropes on it so a couple people could swing it about some and nothing is going to happen.
WSA Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) I'm not prepared to go that far 1980squatch, but let's just consider it isn't possible. To test it though, you'd have to exert force on each side of the tree, alternating and timing it perfectly. If the tree does fail, you'll have some dead and injured people though...but sacrifices must be made! (ummm...I'll stand over here) What theory can you propose instead? What brought that tree down on a windless day, as described? Love being in a Pine Tree during a windstorm. I have swayed probably 10" horizontally at 15' up in a tree. Love being in a Pine Tree during a windstorm. I have swayed probably 10" horizontally at 15' up in a tree. For sure. Like I said, I loved to scare myself and others as a kid doing just that. It pays to be immortal if you try it. 15' up is high, but think about the whip you can generate if you triple that height. Edited June 24, 2014 by WSA
Guest Stan Norton Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Folks snapping big trees with winches http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0-sSFaZIao Edited June 24, 2014 by Stan Norton
WSA Posted June 24, 2014 Posted June 24, 2014 I like your windspeed data Drew, and it bears noting. I'd be surprised though if the NAWAC would sight in their weapons on a windy day . Winds can blow aloft and not ruffle anything on deck, of course.
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