Viewpoint, Or Not?

[Yuchi1]

Not to pick upon anyone in particular, however using Norseman's contention he would reach for the rifle first and camera second which is to presume he's actively hunting with a firearm, consider the following from a forensic/legal perspective:

 

1) How does anyone know exactly what it is they're hunting?

 

2) What proof do they possess to support any contentions of what these things are?

 

IMO, basically, if you cannot validate these items, you are engaging in a shoot first, ask questions later proposition, from a forensic and legal perspective.

 

I'm aware of two separate incidents where "something" was shot and blood samples recovered with DNA analysis allegedly being conducted.  The latest such event supposedly was perpetrated by individuals affiliated with what was the TBRC organization but I understand they have subsequently changed the name of their group to something with Wood Ape in the title. A subject was allegedly shot somewhere in the Kiamichi mountians in SE Oklahoma with blood samples recovered and supposedly sent in for DNA analysis, etc..

 

Has anyone heard of what the results of this analysis yielded?

 

1) Was it some unknown species?

 

2) Was it a bear or some other known fauna?

 

3) Was it human?

 

The point is simply, before you load up the elephant gun and head off to the woods to shoot one, shouldn't you have a firm grasp of what an elephant actually looks like?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[norseman]

Absolutely!!!! Know your target...........

 

 

That? Is what I'm hunting. What it is? Is for a bunch of guys in lab coats to decide!

 

Right now? What it is? Is a freaking fairy tale.

 

About the NAWAC blood sample, I believe the blood sample was contaminated and DNA was impossible to pull from it. 

 

Lastly, guns are a heavy responsibility, if you shoot a Bear out of season because you thought it was a Sasquatch, you could be convicted of poaching. If you shoot a dude in a black running suit? You are probably going to be convicted of murder. Nobody cares if your sorry, didn't mean to do it, scared, whatever.............that is the crux of it. Of course this is the same responsibility that tens of thousands of hunters face every year during hunting season. Is it a deer or uncle bob? Is it a white tail or a mule deer? Is it a male? Is it a legal male by counting antler points? Target confirmation is not an impossible task...........and when in doubt? DONT SHOOT.

[Cotter]

Not me!  I'm gonna be the biggest bigfoot poacher ever!
 

I want a stuffed bigfoot army in my basement!  Collect all the sizes, types, colors, and snouts.  Heck, I want enough to recreate the battle of bulge in my backyard.

 

I've got a taxidermist on retainer as I type this.

 

;-)

[Yuchi1]

About the NAWAC blood sample, I believe the blood sample was contaminated and DNA was impossible to pull from it.

 

The photo (in the report) appeared to be recovered blood on a stone so it must have been contaminated during the handling process.  Sounds like better protocols would be in order.

 

 

 

Target confirmation is not an impossible task...........and when in doubt? DONT SHOOT.
 

Exactly, this saves the expense of repairing someone's vehicle that was shot up during a "hunt".
 

Edited May 2, 2014 by Yuchi1

[Kiwakwe]

 

Hello Wag,

 

"Bigfeets", if they exist, are in trouble anyway unless one can curb some powerful economic interests and their lobbyists. Gotta tell ya though. Even without a Bigfoot the woods and the creatures that live in them are in trouble. My thinking is that it is in fact already too late to fix irreparable damage in those areas. What isn't digging them up or cutting things down is pressuring them at all edges. There's simply too many people on this planet needing resources and where there's resources there's money to be made. The laws and THE law are in their favor since LLC's aquired the same rights as if they were a person back in 2010. There's no going back against a corporation that has been afforded the same democratic status as any individual has. It virtually puts companies on the same par as a private citizen. And since privatizing is becoming the norm you can see where things are heading.

Rant over. Sorry OP. And now back to our normally scheduled program.

 

Interesting story in the NY Times magazine about a lawyer's struggle for personhood of autonomous animals. If LLCs and corps have it why not the primates, whales, dolphins and other critters who display obvious social structure, intelligence and communication skills.

 

Tommy the chimp got his day in court suing his captor "he" lost but the judge was sympathetic and the ruling made for easy appeal to higher courts where laws could be made/changed. No doubt a long battle but a worthy one that may eventually reap personhood for BF.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/27/magazine/the-rights-of-man-and-beast.html?_r=0

[Old Dog]

Blah blah, they are people of the forest blah blah they exist take my word for it blah blah pro kill groups are narcissistic blood thirsty savages blah blah blah..........it's propaganda, pure and simple

 

Show me ONE piece of US Fish and game legislation specific to Sasquatch/Bigfoot/Wood ape that protects that species from pro kill groups.......or more importantly housing developments, timber companies or US Army corps of Engineers dam building projects? That's right there are none.

 

Far from being a blood thirsty savage, I've accepted that science demands a body, it doesn't matter why, and that type specimen will be a huge step forward for a species without a voice. And once that happens I will become the most ardent anti kill supporter in the history of anti kill supporters. In the mean time? I hope that someone finds granny Squatch dead or her bones, or collects a bona fide hair on a bore brush, or some other natural occurrence that procures us a type specimen. With that said? If I'm looking right at him I'm not reaching for my camera, in the hopes of selling you on another grainy blog squatch. I'm reaching for my rifle and I am committed to ending the mystery once and for all.

 

And I am not alone.

This is the only thing I could find right off the bat.  It is listed on the Dumb Laws web site.  LOL

 

http://www.dumblaws.com/law/1917

Edited May 2, 2014 by Old Dog

[Guest JiggyPotamus]

I am pro-kill under certain conditions, which I've outlined in other threads in the past. However, I find it appalling that someone could kill a bigfoot, or capture a live one, and simply never tell the rest of the world, sticking it in a private collection or keeping it locked in cage. It is sort of hard to believe that someone would do that, but knowing how bad some people can be this is child's play in comparison.

 

So it is not outside the realm of possibility that something of this nature has occurred in the past, but it is impossible to know. I think the bottom line is if one believes sasquatch are in danger now from human encroachment on their territory, or will be in the future, then collecting a specimen is the best course of action. There is virtually no other type of evidence that can prove bigfoot exists, not even DNA. You can tell certain things about an animal from DNA, but not what it looks like. So without a body, bigfoot will remain undocumented.

 

We know that finding a body is a long shot, and considering that there are probably thousands of sightings to every piece of bigfoot remains found, just as a guess, it makes more sense that shooting one will be the quickest way to document the species. However, I believe there are going to be obstacles to overcome by whoever kills one of these strange animals. They must handle it in a certain way, and give themselves some type of insurance.

 

Before doing anything I would take video and still pictures, collect tissue samples and other evidence, and send them off to prominent researchers and scientists. Then I would call the media. I would make it as difficult as possible to cover up, just on the off chance that the authorities intervene, confiscate the body, and it disappears. I would not want to be left with just a story, because as we know, that gets us nowhere. Oh, and getting legal representation would probably be of paramount importance as well. Both to protect your interests in documenting the species but also to protect you from authorities if they attempt to play the "you're in big trouble" card, "unless you give us the body," or whatever.

 

That may sound outlandish to some, but I honestly don't think it is. There are not all that many reports of such interference, and even fewer with regards to a dead body, but I think there is at least enough eyewitness testimony to suggest that it is possible something of this nature could be covered up. I just wouldn't want to take that chance. So whoever kills one needs to be a good shot, must not wound the animal and allow it to escape, must have a prearranged means of getting the body out of the woods, among other things, and they must have a plan regarding their actions after they get the body to their house...or wherever they are going to take it. Self storage or whatever...lol.

[Guest keninsc]

Not to pick upon anyone in particular, however using Norseman's contention he would reach for the rifle first and camera second which is to presume he's acfely hunting with a firearm, consider the following from a forensic/legal perspective:

1) How does anyone know exactly what it is they're hunting?

2) What proof do they possess to support any contentions of what these things are?

IMO, basically, if you cannot validate these items, you are engaging in a shoot first, ask questions later proposition, from a forensic and legal perspective.

I'm aware of two separate incidents where "something" was shot and blood samples recovered with DNA analysis allegedly being conducted. The latest such event supposedly was perpetrated by individuals affiliated with what was the TBRC organization but I understand they have subsequently changed the name of their group to something with Wood Ape in the title. A subject was allegedly shot somewhere in the Kiamichi mountians in SE Oklahoma with blood samples recovered and supposedly sent in for DNA analysis, etc..

Has anyone heard of what the results of this analysis yielded?

1) Was it some unknown species?

2) Was it a bear or some other known fauna?

3) Was it human?

The point is simply, before you load up the elephant gun and head off to the woods to shoot one, shouldn't you have a firm grasp of what an elephant actually looks like?

Obviously, you're not a hunter. If you were then you would know that hunters, real hunters and not some drunken redneck with a gun, always positively ID a target before shooting. To do otherwise is a danger to yourself and to others and completely and totally irresponsible. Sadly, I gave up hunting because a drunken redneck fired at myself and my hunting companion. At ten AM this reprobate had already finished off a twelve pack, half a pint of liquor and was toking on a fat one, which he offered to share with us to make up for firing at us. I can't give my actual response as I'm not sure the statue of limitations has run out yet.

[Guest]

One guy like that makes all of us hunters look bad. 

[Guest keninsc]

Yep, pretty much.

Edited May 3, 2014 by keninsc

[Guest]

Jiggy, as you might know, if I ever found parts, and there is anactotal evidence parts can exist right place right time, I would try my best to sell it to the elusive Japanese buyer, make a pile of $$, and only 5 or so people would ever know about it.

 

 

Its the best scenario one could possibly hope for.

 

It is doubtful a bunch of country bumpkins are going to get publicity on this, without black-ops coming in and ruining your day/month/year. They probably have a few teams that are ready for this 24/7.

 

Try to expose, your going to regret it most likely. But its not like selling it to a Japanese buyer is any safer. Much more dangerous actually, very little window for errors.

 

And that is without the 'paranormal' element coming into play.

Edited May 4, 2014 by Wag

[WSA]

You can read all about the live-fire incident in the NAWAC's study Area X in that thread. In short, it was reported a BF was sighted in daylight and a shot was taken. As bad luck would have it, there were also some unexpected visitors who were just arriving at that time, and they were in the general vicinity to the incident. When this was realized by the NAWAC members, a great deal of confusion and concern for safety naturally occurred. As a result, the efffort to follow-up on the shot was compromised. A blood drop on a rock was found some while later (don't recall how much later), and a sample of it was taken, but it had been exposed too long and the lab report was, if I recall correctly, "inconclusive."   

 

I happen to agree with the pro-kill stance of both the NAWAC and Norseman's Project G., for the reasons both they and he put forward.  Before any of the species we know of today (both rare and common) were accepted by science, at least one specimen of the species was killed and collected. If it could be done by photos and DNA studies, it would be fair to argue for that in the alternative. We know that has proven to be a futile effort. Even the quality of the PG film hasn't swayed those who need convincing. That one must die so that all the others may have a better chance to live is a seemingly callous contradiction, but...it is nonetheless the way science, biology and human nature operate.

[Yuchi1]

You can read all about the live-fire incident in the NAWAC's study Area X in that thread. In short, it was reported a BF was sighted in daylight and a shot was taken. As bad luck would have it, there were also some unexpected visitors who were just arriving at that time, and they were in the general vicinity to the incident. When this was realized by the NAWAC members, a great deal of confusion and concern for safety naturally occurred. As a result, the efffort to follow-up on the shot was compromised. A blood drop on a rock was found some while later (don't recall how much later), and a sample of it was taken, but it had been exposed too long and the lab report was, if I recall correctly, "inconclusive."   

 

I happen to agree with the pro-kill stance of both the NAWAC and Norseman's Project G., for the reasons both they and he put forward.  Before any of the species we know of today (both rare and common) were accepted by science, at least one specimen of the species was killed and collected. If it could be done by photos and DNA studies, it would be fair to argue for that in the alternative. We know that has proven to be a futile effort. Even the quality of the PG film hasn't swayed those who need convincing. That one must die so that all the others may have a better chance to live is a seemingly callous contradiction, but...it is nonetheless the way science, biology and human nature operate.

 

I believe you're referring to two (2) separate incidents as my understanding is the vehicle was shot up during a night event and the "whatever" was shot subsequently during a daylight operation.

 

Personally, I do not condemn the pro-kill advocates but know they are travelling the wrong path however, to each his/her own.

 

Also, remember these events took place when the buzz was that Dr. Ketchum was on the cusp of ground-breaking news and the #!@* dude had allegedly shot a BF, so the impetus was to race and be there first with a body.

 

Desperate people do desperate things. 

[southernyahoo]

.

 

About the NAWAC blood sample, I believe the blood sample was contaminated and DNA was impossible to pull from it. 

 

Lastly, guns are a heavy responsibility, if you shoot a Bear out of season because you thought it was a Sasquatch, you could be convicted of poaching. If you shoot a dude in a black running suit? You are probably going to be convicted of murder. Nobody cares if your sorry, didn't mean to do it, scared, whatever.............that is the crux of it. 

 

The NAWAC sample disappeared into a Lab in Canada never to be heard from again. And like any sample or specimen that tests human will do the same. Assumed hoax or illegal to possess.

[Guest keninsc]

I believe you're referring to two (2) separate incidents as my understanding is the vehicle was shot up during a night event and the "whatever" was shot subsequently during a daylight operation.

Personally, I do not condemn the pro-kill advocates but know they are travelling the wrong path however, to each his/her own.

Also, remember these events took place when the buzz was that Dr. Ketchum was on the cusp of ground-breaking news and the #!@* dude had allegedly shot a BF, so the impetus was to race and be there first with a body.

Desperate people do desperate things.

It isn't necessarily the wrong path; it just isn't your path and that's fine. We all have to walk our own path in life and live the things we do.

As far as Ketchum's study is concerned it's all water under the bridge. No credible group has endorsed it and no one is even talking about it now. The thing with Dyer was nothing but street theater; a song and dance by a con man. I wanted it to be true as did many others but wanting it to be true doesn't make it true.

Edited May 6, 2014 by keninsc