Yuchi1 Posted May 8, 2014 Author Share Posted May 8, 2014 As an aside, I am aware LE (ODWC, USFS & SO) were perturbed over the reports of guys running around those mountains dressed up like militia and firing shots with (per the general community's consensus) abandon. They have enough problems in dealing with poachers, meth labs and pot patches with the word being, they were probably going to do everything within the code to "discourage" such activities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 (edited) Hello Yuchi1, I've been following this conversation with interest. Is there something behind your side of the discussion that you are addressing or would like folks to know and understand? You obviously are experienced in and on the subject but I'm struggling a bit in an attempt to see an underlying point or philosophy other that one being the subject of no-kill. No problems there I assure you but it would be easier for me to grasp the dialogue if you could state the reasons for the points you are presenting. Thanks. Edited May 8, 2014 by hiflier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ike Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 (edited) Not that I have a dog in this fight per se, but here is my, and I'm guessing others, perception on this. Yuchi joined this forum in August of last year and has only made 26 posts, the bulk of which appear to be here in this thread or the NWAC one over the last few days. In and of itself, that is not necessarily an issue. Where it becomes an issue is when the general gist of the postings that Yuchi has made have been of an inflammatory nature, essentially accusing NWAC members of lying, and being reckless cowboys who have been shooting up cars and people in Oklahoma. These comments are not only inflammatory, but borderline libelous. In essence, we have a comparatively "unknown" poster coming out of the woodwork who appears to have an axe to grind, who claims to have insider knowledge of NWAC activities, yet is unable to substantiate any of them. Compare this to several NWAC members here are longtime participants, one of which is the founder of the BFF forum, who have always been quite credible and "open" to my satisfaction, and I think we see the problem here. Admittedly, my perceptions could be wrong. I don't live out there in Oklahoma, I'm not a NWAC member and don't claim to have any insider knowledge of what they, or anyone is up to so perhaps these accusations could be true, but I don't think they are though. To me it comes down to credibility, and that is not gained by anonymously coming out of nowhere, taking potshots and making some pretty serious accusations without proof. I'm fairly confident that if indeed they were recklessly shooting people out there in the Ouichitas, someone would have had to go to a hospital for treatment, and the same LEOs that Yuchi mentioned would have been out there taking someone into custody. Sorry, but your "insider" information just doesn't jive to me. If I am wrong, well then, somebody needs to be shutting NWAC down and filing charges. Edited May 8, 2014 by Ike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 (edited) Also, Dr. Higgins pro-kill position statement on NAWAC also differs extremely from the one enunciated when he, Steve Summar, Harvey Pratt and I had lunch at Chileno's in OKC ~5 years ago. This is not correct, either. I asked Alton for a comment in response: My (our) hope at that time was that compelling video or photographic evidence, while not sufficing to produce official recognition and taxonomic classification, could still serve as proof that an undocumented species existed, justifying and resulting in full scale documentation efforts from governmental and academic researchers. As you know, the fact that I and the organization changed our position on this concept was elaborated fully on our web site in our "Word From the Chairman" article, so I see no issue there. Misconstruing our hopes and intensions that have been influenced significantly following over $50,000 in expenditures and years of labor as anything other than an informed evolution towards a consistent goal as some kind of flip-flop or deliberate deception would be entirely inaccurate and unfair. Edited May 8, 2014 by bipto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 I have been reading this with I must admit, not a little amusement. I don't post much but folks here know me. I actually am a LEO, and have been around this field for quite some time. I don't know Yuchi's BF background, but from what he has posted so far, I am confident he is not a LEO nor does he have a clue how law enforcement & prosecution of crime actually works. And thinking about picking up a Barrett for your BF hunting? Now that was funny, I just about did a spit take with my Subway... On the other hand, Norseman, Bipto, and his crew are the real deals and well respected in the BF world... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuchi1 Posted May 8, 2014 Author Share Posted May 8, 2014 Hello Yuchi1, I've been following this conversation with interest. Is there something behind your side of the discussion that you are addressing or would like folks to know and understand? You obviously are experienced in and on the subject but I'm struggling a bit in an attempt to see an underlying point or philosophy other that one being the subject of no-kill. No problems there I assure you but it would be easier for me to grasp the dialogue if you could state the reasons for the points you are presenting. Thanks. Hiflier, As previously stated, I mean no ill toward anyone yet do have a predisposition for asking probing (and, sometimes uncomfortable) questions. For the most part, the conversation has been civil and I have tried to make statements with accuracy, to the best of my knowledge and belief. I also appreciate the fact that the powers that be have seen fit to allow latitude in the discussion rather than the reactionary response sometimes in play with other sites of this vein. As far as the point, it is that I/we went through much the same M.O. as the NAWAC group back in the pro-kill days (we didn't spend $50K, tho') and some of us evolved to the opinion of the folly and moral wrongness of such an endeavour while others chose to stay on the original path with some becoming bitter enemies. I would only ask of anyone pursuing the pro-kill path to think long and hard about what they're doing (typical macho man rationalizations aside) and if they were to be successful, what would the situation become should the "Ape" they just killed turn out to be something more? Food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuchi1 Posted May 8, 2014 Author Share Posted May 8, 2014 (edited) I have been reading this with I must admit, not a little amusement. I don't post much but folks here know me. I actually am a LEO, and have been around this field for quite some time. I don't know Yuchi's BF background, but from what he has posted so far, I am confident he is not a LEO nor does he have a clue how law enforcement & prosecution of crime actually works. And thinking about picking up a Barrett for your BF hunting? Now that was funny, I just about did a spit take with my Subway... On the other hand, Norseman, Bipto, and his crew are the real deals and well respected in the BF world... Hmmm, somewhat surprised at that, considering you say LEO? We had figured out that sniping at distance was going to probably have a higher degree of success than trying to gain close proximity in a normal hunting style. Had the extraction team and perimeter defense mechanisms all figured out and several locations where family groups were known to come out in the open during daylight hours with adjacent positions ~1,000 yards distant to set up for the shot(s). However, it was shortly thereafter when I had the permanent change in position regarding such and discarded the entire affair. Leave it at this: If, homo (genus) means human, what does the homo in homicide mean? Edited May 8, 2014 by Yuchi1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 You can't snipe a BF, they will hear you when insert. I will add that using a drone for hunting game has been outlawed in several states now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 (edited) Hello Yuchi1, I thank you for you willingness to clarify on my behalf. It seems to me the difficulty lies in folks being unable to find a medium agenda that satisfies both parties. I harped quite enough thank you very much on the tremendous importance and goal of as many people as possible pursuing the search for a body left behing from winter for whatever reason it had sucumbed. IMO it's the ONLY middle ground available. If not then things like what happened to the relationships within your group will most likely be the norm. And sorry to hear of such outcomes. You've probably seen similar dynamics on this Forum which to me only suffices in becoming a counter-productive, repetitive dialogue. Ah well... For myself I am pro-securing a body; preferably an already dead one, and my understanding is that nearly 100% of everyone agrees with that. There then is the middle ground though it's almost too late in some areas to race against Mother Nature and her usual process that make things "disappear". It's not too late however in some of the northern midwest and interior areas of the northeast. The effort really should be top priority if one were to ask. Edited May 8, 2014 by hiflier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted May 8, 2014 Admin Share Posted May 8, 2014 Ike hit it on the head.......don't feed the troll. Adios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuchi1 Posted May 8, 2014 Author Share Posted May 8, 2014 Ike hit it on the head.......don't feed the troll. Adios. Don't feed the minions either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cotter Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Funny Yuchi, you seem to have a concern for gun safety as it related to accidental shooting of humans. Perhaps, if you were truly concerned about this, you would go educate some inner city youth instead a cyber campaign against a couple dozen folks on private land in Oklahoma. ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernyahoo Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 It would only take one dead upright walking biped of the wrong kind to be a concern to this whole community. Hunting accidents happen, but clearly these occur mostly because of careless actions or a lack of positive ID. A deliberate act to shoot at upright walking apes will always feel wrong to people no matter how convinced the shooter is or was, that it's not a human. There is no taking it back, and there is no dodging the verdict given by DNA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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