hiflier Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 (edited) Hello SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT, Hear you on that. Good luck and be safe in all your endeavors. I went out myself in mid-April with another guy just the reasons stated. Plenty of snow still on the ground. Too much really but we went anyway. Weather was around 40 in the daytime and it was a beautiful place to be in. Ther's no stopping the Pro-Kill guys except for one. For myself It's about proof either way but if anytone has a personal philosophical directive to not have any harm come to our Hairy Friend then I strongly suggest a concerted effort and finding that dead one. I have a thread that also mentions how little it would cost compared to gearing up one's self for shooting one. It's peanuts really except for the time invested. Find the carcass (this is for the Habituators too BTW) and all will be well. Edited May 4, 2014 by hiflier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest keninsc Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 If I believed that proof via other means would be accepted by the scientific community then I'd be all about it. Fact is one body might be seen as an anomilly and blown off as a fluke. If I were to find a body then that would work for me as well. I don't need to actually shoot the critter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 Hello keninsc, Nicely cogent. Yep, find a body and no one has to shoot one. The groups we know of actively seeking a Sasquatch WILL stop all measures regarding taking a live one and from what I can see will go 100% in the opposite direction for saving them and their habitat. They would turn into the Creature's staunchest supporters instead seems to be the message across the board. Imagine seeing the guns aimed the other way- in Sasquatch's defense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunflower Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 As far as I can tell, that is not what is happening. There are reports of a hunter killing one about every several years and not one has brought the body back. In fact, after they shoot it or actually kill it, they either bury it, abandon it or just run away. So it depends on who is doing the shooting and why. I keep hearing and reading about all the hopes and dreams about how the people will conserve the land for them? To do what, put them on a frickin' reservation????? Leave them alone and let them be would be far more wise than any idea that I've seen come down the pike. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 (edited) Hello Sunflower, I respectfully submit that those shooting reports include the reasons for the hunters' actions at the time. If we know more now than they did then (if anyone has had an ear) then we have a much better idea of the situation. I did say with the groups that "WE KNOW" for they are on this Forum. We all know their position on the matter and why. We also know that if a body is discovered then their position seriously changes and comes more in line with what you are saying. I'm not personally one for the short way of doing things. These Creatures are going to need something in place for twenty, forty, and a hundred years from now. At this point there isn't one piece of federal or state legislation or guarantee for their long-term survival. And since they are not recognized as existing there won't be any- ever. One would think the all out effort of all those who are no-kill to find a body would be more important now than at any time in the past. I think it's time for everyone to get with the program and do this if putting a bullet in one is so unthinkable. As adults the responsible thing to do is to weigh this out, become a part of the solution, and get actively involved in the search. This should be a no.1 priority, especially for those who wish no harm to come to our Hairy Friend. We're grown up enough (one would hope) to realize what governments and corporations do to environments and PEOPLE. We know what they allow to happen to habitats. Does anyone honestly think a little ol' unknown Creature like Sasquatch is going to fare well while it's world gets carved up smaller and smaller and pockets of them become more isolated from each other? Thinking in the long run is the only way and getting one to science is the only avenue open for their safety. Sorry. Rant now over Edited May 4, 2014 by hiflier 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest keninsc Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 As far as I can tell, that is not what is happening. There are reports of a hunter killing one about every several years and not one has brought the body back. In fact, after they shoot it or actually kill it, they either bury it, abandon it or just run away. So it depends on who is doing the shooting and why. I keep hearing and reading about all the hopes and dreams about how the people will conserve the land for them? To do what, put them on a frickin' reservation????? Leave them alone and let them be would be far more wise than any idea that I've seen come down the pike. You believe everything you read on the web? Fact is if they had then they'd have cashed in on it. If someone says they bagged a Bigfoot and didn't bring in something. Head hands and feet then they are lying. Plain and simple and most liars can lie with conviction in their voice and mannerisms. Hello keninsc, Nicely cogent. Yep, find a body and no one has to shoot one. The groups we know of actively seeking a Sasquatch WILL stop all measures regarding taking a live one and from what I can see will go 100% in the opposite direction for saving them and their habitat. They would turn into the Creature's staunchest supporters instead seems to be the message across the board. Imagine seeing the guns aimed the other way- in Sasquatch's defense! Yep, that's pretty much it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWWASAS Posted May 5, 2014 BFF Patron Share Posted May 5, 2014 Sunflower I am with you on that. As part Native American I have seen how the government takes care of indigenous peoples. While I consider what I am doing in the field somewhat dangerous, especially lately where they seem ticked at me, I think the only thing more dangerous would be to shoot at them. The pro kill people better have a lot of backup. Then who are you going to take the body to?. You better have all that worked out and trust who you deliver it to. You could have just risked your life to shoot one and walk into a room full of federal agents of some kind who will take it away from you and threaten you with prison time on some trumped up charge if you tell anyone. Another issue is DNA and hybridization. Say someone does kill one and brings it in. What if DNA shows it is more human than not? You lawyered up yet for a murder charge? You cannot claim ignorance when dozens of witnesses on this site alone say how human their faces look. The lawyer fees defending yourself alone would bankrupt you even if you did not go to prison. Stay out of Skamania County Washington. $10,000 dollar fine and I think two years in jail if you shoot one, even if it turns out to be some sort of ape. I know this sounds like a rant but it is a dangerous game to play if the government is a major player like so many people think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest keninsc Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 (edited) You do know that there is only 3% difference genetically speaking between humans and chimpanzees, right? And there is only 5% difference between humans and gorillas, right? Strangely, no one has been a tried for shooting either. Now I do agree you need to have a plan in place before you go looking for a Bigfoot to bring in. Oh and I would add that I'm part NA as well on both sides of my family. Edited May 5, 2014 by keninsc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 (edited) Hello SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT, Don't forget, WE are the government. They do what they do 'cause we've allowed it. Living in fear of the government- OUR government- to me is a sucky way to live. YA THINK?!? We're not talking anarchy here we,re talking about presenting a species to science for verification. What are you talking about except to keep fear alive. Sorry, i refuse to live like that. The way out of this BF mystery is to tackle it head on. Some might call it having a backbone. At least that's what it used to be called anyway. Anyone who is currently active in hunting one who doesn't know the law has no business being outb there. If you think any of the groups we know about and have dialogue with here are not aware of the law then you'd be mistaken. And what if's will never be resolved without that backbone I had mentioned. How about a solution from you that would succeed in bringing the subject to closure? P.S. Just ya know I'll be leaving this Forum in early June on the one year anniversary of my joining. Edited May 5, 2014 by hiflier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWWASAS Posted May 5, 2014 BFF Patron Share Posted May 5, 2014 KeninSC I am aware of the 3 and 5 % differences but the same people that determined those numbers know what DNA markers are different between them and us. So anything closer to human than chimpanzees or gorillas would have obvious markers and with nuclear DNA they can determine common ancestors. 20 some % of Western European humans have Neanderthal in their family trees and Neanderthal are by definition a different species than modern humans and not in everyone's ancestral trees. Your statement about shooting chimpanzees and gorillas is just wrong. Just in the last year poachers were arrested for capturing a young mountain gorilla. They are a protected species with only about 970 left in the world. The government in Rwanda has authorized the use of lethal force to protect them since the poachers are normally armed. Since neither chimpanzees and gorillas are game animals in North America, just shoot one in front of witnesses that is loose in North America that it not threatening you or another human and see what happens. People get charged all the time for animal abuse just shooting dogs and cats. An endangered species shot or even getting caught with a part of one would get you arrested real quick just like shooting an eagle or having an eagle feather does. HiFlier it might be news to you but we do not live in a democracy, we live in a representative republic. So we are not the government and our elected government masters commonly pass laws that do not have popular support or would pass if the people were allowed to vote on it. A solution to the existence problem? Myself and others have already suggested obtaining an already dead body or skeleton. Either one would prove existence and not require killing. They are out there and may be safer to obtain than with killing. I may be selfish but I just don't want to blunder into an area where humans have been shooting at BF. I don't want to disappear and my case end up in a 411 book. RR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 (edited) Hello SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT, HiFlier it might be news to you but we do not live in a democracy, we live in a representative republic. So we are not the government and our elected government masters commonly pass laws that do not have popular support or would pass if the people were allowed to vote on it. That's what they tell us......but it's incorrect. We live in an oligarchy that practices regulatory capture. A solution to the existence problem? Myself and others have already suggested obtaining an already dead body or skeleton. Either one would prove existence and not require killing. They are out there and may be safer to obtain than with killing. Glad to hear it. It's something I've been pushing for since my "Dead Sasquatch" thread back on January 18 this year: http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/45145-dead-sasquatch/?hl=%2Bdead+%2Bsasquatch: I may be selfish but I just don't want to blunder into an area where humans have been shooting at BF. I don't want to disappear and my case end up in a 411 book. Hey, that's not selfish at all my friend, LOL. And who could blame you? Edited May 5, 2014 by hiflier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wiiawiwb Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 The one element of this topic that has always swayed me more than any other is the seeming integrity and believability of so many of the witnesses. Personally, my belief is that if you do not believe in the possibility of Sasquatch's existence, you are effectively saying that thousands of people across the globe are either lying or gravely mistaken, oddly enough while reporting startlingly similar things. It just doesn't pass logic muster for me. So when I watch the related shows, all the green lit night excursions and outdoorsy stuff doesn't really interest me as much as the interviews with the witnesses. I imagine others agree with me. What I propose is a series based simply on witness testimony. I suppose you'd have to have the requisite "recreations" to graphically display the encounters, but that's it. No campouts, no hiking or pointing into the darkness or whispering under the breath. Just witnesses. I think there's a huge untold story not just of "are these people telling the truth?" but moreover, how has this experience changed their lives? How are they different now, how has it affected relationships with family, friends, co-workers? Has it changed their views on anything, including science, or religion? I really would love to see something like this, but of course it will never happen. Anyone else agree? That type of show would never sell. TV needs to be sensational and swarm the viewers' senses from beginning to end. Your series beckons those who are thinkers and possess both common sense and wisdom. Both of those attributes are as scarce today as teeth on a hen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest keninsc Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Wow, you're so locked into you opinion there is no room to even consider something else. And poaching it illegal regardless of species and isn't what I was talking about and you know it. You simply have no proper response for a point of logic and reason. So you hide behind an off point statement and hope I let it side. You need to learn and remain open to other points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Crowlogic Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 I wish I could put more stock in the sincerity of witnesses. I've listened to a lot of sincere descriptions/explanations of strangeness that were at face value true only to be discovered that they were indeed false. Such a show of interview and witness stories would be interesting but it won't make anything any more real or less real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest keninsc Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 True, stories run the whole gambit from lies to highly embellished to slightly embellished to truth. There are many stories that are told years later and even if they truth they've been run through in the mind of the teller that when they do come forward you have to ask yourself how accurate is it now. Not because of deception but due to memory changing. Hey it's happened to me and keeping facts straight is my job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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