This Is A Neanderthal.

[Guest Stan Norton]

In common with most prehistoric hominins they were short of stature compared to us fortunate moderns. In the 5 foot range or thereabouts. Short but very tough. Not eight feet with lots of hair and red glowing cat eyes...

Edited May 29, 2014 by Stan Norton

[Drew]

http://johnhawks.net/weblog/reviews/neandertals/neandertal_dna/180-million-living-neandertals-2013.html

 

Nearly seven billion people inhabit our planet. At least six billion carry the genes of Neandertal ancestors. Inheritance from Neandertals makes up approximately 3% of the genomes of randomly chosen people outside sub-Saharan Africa today (Green et al., 2010; Reich et al., 2010). A back-of-the-envelope calculation shows if we took all of the Neandertal genes from todays human population, we would have enough raw material to make up 180 million Neandertals.

I love that because it makes the Neandertals into the evolutionary success story they really were. They succeeded by becoming part of us.

 

[NCBFr]

To counter all the silly 'Us and Them' cat-eyed Neanderthal rubbish, here's a photo of a life-size Neanderthal male based on actual remains. 

 

Does anyone seriously consider that sasquatch is a relic Neanderthal? They're not.

 

Looks to me like one or two of the guys in Mountain Monsters, perhaps with a few more teeth.

[Cotter]

Question - how much has Homo Sapiens (modern), evolved in 50k years?  Stature-wise?

[Guest Stan Norton]

We've certainly got taller on average due to fairly recent dietary improvements but I believe the Mesolithic diet was pretty much perfect.

[Drew]

Question - how much has Homo Sapiens (modern), evolved in 50k years?  Stature-wise?

http://www.livestrong.com/article/542877-the-average-height-of-humans-over-time/ 

[Cotter]

^Thanks Drew - very interesting!
 

So, a species such as ours can have height fluctuations of several inches in an EXTREMELY short time period.

[Drew]

The height seems to be based on Nutritional intake, taller during periods and in regions with/of good nutrition, and shorter during periods of famine and disease.

 

Has the average height really changed in the last 1000 years?  it is at 5'10" right now, will that drop again as food becomes more scarce with population increases?

 

It seems to hover around 5'8" for the last 1000 years.

[Guest]

Actually any female born may have had only male offspring herself thereby eliminating her mtDNA from the gene pool.

 

Unless she had a sister who spawned a daughter.

[Guest]

The abstract I referenced was not meant to cast doubt upon the possible height of Neanderthals, but to call into question the ability of scientists to predict superficial features of Neanderthals based upon it's genome.

[Guest Stan Norton]

The abstract I referenced was not meant to cast doubt upon the possible height of Neanderthals, but to call into question the ability of scientists to predict superficial features of Neanderthals based upon it's genome.

 

Understood, but the degree to which genomic studies are able to predict characteristics such as eye colour, hair colour, susceptibility to various diseases is really quite remarkable. I'm certain Galton would have been thrilled to see what is possible. I think that scientists are able to bring us to a level of incredible understanding but, as ever, there is a great deal more to learn. I think we can be sure though that Neanderthals were not cat eyed massive sex perv men....

[Guest]

Unless she had a sister who spawned a daughter.

We could play "what if" all day and get absolutely nowhere. There is no evidence that crosses happened on a regular basis. I suspect crosses happened sporadically and that most hybrids probably were not terribly successful. However, over generations mixed populations would sort out the useful genes from the harmful ones.

Edited May 29, 2014 by antfoot

[Guest]

Just want to stop in and give an "atta-boy" to Stan.  He's fighting the good fight with class.  The epidemic of science-skeptics is disheartening and I would have gotten rude long ago.

[the parkie]

I think we can be sure though that Neanderthals were not cat eyed massive sex perv men....

Does this mean Rolf Harris is sub-saharan?

Edited May 29, 2014 by the parkie

[Guest]

We could play "what if" all day and get absolutely nowhere. There is no evidence that crosses happened on a regular basis. I suspect crosses happened sporadically and that most hybrids probably were not terribly successful. However, over generations mixed populations would sort out the useful genes from the harmful ones.

 

That wasn't a what-if -- it was a statement of fact.

 

The additional facts that 20% of the Neandertal genome is preserved within the modern human genome, and that each non-sub-Saharan African possesses 1-4% of his genes that were derived from Neandertals demonstrate that hybridization between our two species was quite common at some time.

 

It suggests to me that our ancestors saw a benefit in hybridizing.  Perhaps offspring displayed hybrid vigor.  Perhaps they found red hair and freckles attractive.  Perhaps Neandertal women were easy to chase down.  Neandertal populations were low and apparently had little genetic variation, so they may have welcomed the availability of outside mates to preclude inbreeding.

The epidemic of science-skeptics is disheartening and I would have gotten rude long ago.

 

Skepticism is essential to science.