Consistency In Sighting Reports

[Guest Crowlogic]

Crow, not to put you on the spot, but heck, this is the BFF and we're all good friends-

 

How do you parse out my story? Any questions you would like to ask?? Would it make any difference at all what the answers are?

 

 

My story can't really be proven out at all, forum or no. I can tell you this though (not that its worth anything either): my friends believe me, but that is only because they know me.

The liars I refer to are names banned from using on the forum.  There is a huge difference between a liar/hoaxer and an honest mis ID or poorly interrupted sighting.

The liars I refer to are names banned from using on the forum.  There is a huge difference between a liar/hoaxer and an honest mis ID or poorly interrupted sighting.

Also the thread is about consistency of sightings and implied how it adds credence to the issue.  I maintain that now anybody has more than enough information to make a consistent type sighting and as such the value of sightings have been diminished.

[Guest DWA]

The liars I refer to are names banned from using on the forum.  There is a huge difference between a liar/hoaxer and an honest mis ID or poorly interrupted sighting.

 

None of the latter two of which have happened in any report I have read.  They're either all very dangerously sick; lying through their teeth...or they saw what they say they saw.

Also the thread is about consistency of sightings and implied how it adds credence to the issue.  I maintain that now anybody has more than enough information to make a consistent type sighting and as such the value of sightings have been diminished.

 

I maintain you're wrong; and science agrees with me.  Science considers evidence of the type we have here prima facie compelling.

 

Didn't you have a sighting?  How are you reconciling that with your stance?

 

(Note:  "science" is a discipline.  Scientists are people who may or may not be practicing it on certain topics, of which this is one on which they are not.)

Again!

 

It really gets tiresome to keep hearing that the consistency in the reports is easily explainable as....

 

No it's not; and to say it is is to telegraph that one is thoroughly unfamiliar either with the reports or with thinking about them.

 

Science is analyzing data.  Say what one will, the reports count; and analyzing them is critical to a thoughtful take on this topic.

 

Sorry.  This isn't an opinion.  And as one would expect with facts which are not opinions, no one disagreeing with this fact gives anyone any reason to take that disagreement seriously.

Edited November 13, 2014 by DWA

[Guest thermalman]

DWA "None of the latter two of which have happened in any report I have read. They're either all very dangerously sick; lying through their teeth...or they saw what they say they saw."

That comment is totally based on conjecture and completely lacks integral substance. No one can determine a person's state of mind, emotional status or motivation for submitting a report. Misidentification, lying and deception continues to happen on the witness stand daily, as does the truth. It all has to be sorted out with accompanying facts and evidence, and cannot be supported solely on a person's verbal confirmation.

Edited November 13, 2014 by thermalman

[BobbyO]

Negative on the rubbish Bobby.  Folks can add sighting after sighting with all of the necessary details and still they are fake but can add to a mountain of uniformity.  If I want to say I saw an elephant in my back yard I won't say it was pink, I'll say it was gray because that's what the conscientious demands.

 

Crow you're wrong my dear.

 

You're talking about consistencies within sighting reports, i've found tonnes Crow and do you know why i've found tonnes Crow ?

 

Because i am trying my hardest ( i'm qualified to do so too ) and i along with others have spent the best part of three years now breaking down hundreds upon hundreds of reports ( we actually have thousands ), breaking them down again and then breaking them down some more and analyzing them thoroughly.

 

If there wasn't any consistencies within reports i wouldn't be telling you that more than 80% of wood knocks ( 83% to be accurate ) in a certain large part of WA State occurred within the four darkest moon phases, with the lowest light conditions. But i can tell you that because that's what the reports tell us.

 

If there wasn't any consistency within reports, i wouldn't be able to tell you about a place in WA State that within a 20 and 30 mile radius of it, has a very, very abnormally high % of Sasquatch reports in Spring compared to the immediate area that it's within where Spring, like it is at all other time is the majority of the time, the season with the second lowest amount of reports.

 

If there wasn't any consistency within collective reports i wouldn't be able to tell you than in a certain State in the US that saw a big growth in a specific City, Sasquatch reports in and around there dropped off almost completely and went, in perfect timeline from East ( the City ) to West ( new area ), 75 to slap bang in the middle of one of the biggest Mule Deer and Elk migration paths ( i paid for the Google Earth files from a hunting site that confirmed them ) on the Continent where Sasquatch reports had been virtually nil before the growth of the City, and then absolutely boomed and continue to do so until this very day. But i can tell you that because that's what the reports tell us.

 

Of course, you won't know that nor will many else but don't tell me that collective analysis of hundreds/thousands of reports is meaningless because again, i'll tell you that what you're saying is utter rubbish.

 

Analysis of accurate data in life makes the world go round across the board.

 

It pays my bills currently and i have no doubt whatsoever that at some stage in the future, the right kind of analysis of Sasquatch sighting reports will reveal results that will undoubtedly show information on the behavior of these animals.

 

I'm not talking about black ones and brown ones, one's that are 7ft tall and one's that are 8ft tall neither, i'm talking about patterns of movement at certain times of the year and patterns in other behavioral habits of these things.

 

It is possible, very possible and proof of that is in what i told you above.

 

If there wasn't consistency in reports, i wouldn't be able to tell you any of that.

 

We have to get our heads round how to best present this stuff admittedly so please nobody crucify me on what i've said above as i know it's loose but it isn't a secret, i just want to be able to present it in a way that everyone will understand as i believe that's crucial and we haven't quite got there yet.

 

If anyone's impatient about it, pay my bills and i'll do it quicker i promise..

I maintain that now anybody has more than enough information to make a consistent type sighting and as such the value of sightings have been diminished.

 

Completely agree but you're again completely ignoring that consistencies can and have been found in collective reports, and reports numbering in their tens/hundreds/thousands combined, after qualified analysis.

Edited November 13, 2014 by BobbyO

[Guest]

 

Socrates once stated, "The knowledge of our own ignorance is the first step toward true knowledge."

 

Bobby O, I’ve been sitting here watching and reading your comments and those of DWA, you guys (generically) have consistently hit ball on many points. After making it a silent point to refrain from any further participation on this thread, solely out of meaningless frustration …. I was compelled to reply again.

 

Your sound reasoning is not lost in the point!

 

Hat tip to you and DWA, start a thread and show what you know, I can’t pay your bills or anything, but I for one would like to hear more about the lunar phases and migratory aspect of Bigfoot movement, neither of which are  new topics for me. It’s just that I am open to hearing it from a different source. I agree with you both on many fronts and it exhausting, and all the head butting frustration, where reciprocity is non-existent, so in spite of that I had to reply.  

 

 

[Guest DWA]

"Science alone of all the subjects contains within itself the lesson of the danger of belief in the infallibility of the greatest teachers in the preceeding generation . . . As a matter of fact, I can also define science another way: Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts." - Nobel Laureate Richard Feynman

 

Too much of what I have read on this and other threads here stems from the very thing that has stymied the mainstream:  inability or unwillingness to get one's hands dirty with the evidence.  We wouldn't take any scientist seriously, in any other field, who didn't; by the same token I cannot take seriously any scientist - or anyone else, actually - who makes pronouncements on the evidence in this field that show, clearly, that the effort ain't happening.

Edited November 13, 2014 by DWA

[Guest]

Here, here! Whiskey for the boys and beer for the horses!

[BobbyO]

Thank you Gumshoe but i'm honestly not doing it for praise, but for my appetite to learn more about what i saw and i believe this is the best way to do it.

[Guest]

And I know you don’t need my praises or accolades, I apologize please. You guys have made me roll off chair in laughter at times, for that I thank you. All of the points you hit on were sound time and again. I see it, I get it and many others do as well. I dabbled with Bigfoot and lunar cycles and just could not see any patterns or repetitious cycles and quickly abandoned the idea, as just a waste of my time. You on the other hand have found the piece to the puzzle and I am dying to know where and how I overlooked it.  

 

To the migratory point, I thought about it and wrote a short vignette lest I forget …. and suspected correlations with movement of wildlife prey. Coming from an investigator’s background, I even went so far as suspecting Bigfoot/ Deer could be predicted by the rise and fall, ebb and flow of vehicle and deer crashes.

 

There lots of reasons or explanations car-deer crashes but putting that aside, there remains a possibility of a Bigfoot angle as well. Once again, neither of the topics you raised were elevated much since in my former circle of associations you don’t discuss that sort of thing.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Gumshoeye

[Guest Crowlogic]

Crow you're wrong my dear.

 

You're talking about consistencies within sighting reports, i've found tonnes Crow and do you know why i've found tonnes Crow ?

 

Because i am trying my hardest ( i'm qualified to do so too ) and i along with others have spent the best part of three years now breaking down hundreds upon hundreds of reports ( we actually have thousands ), breaking them down again and then breaking them down some more and analyzing them thoroughly.

 

If there wasn't any consistencies within reports i wouldn't be telling you that more than 80% of wood knocks ( 83% to be accurate ) in a certain large part of WA State occurred within the four darkest moon phases, with the lowest light conditions. But i can tell you that because that's what the reports tell us.

 

If there wasn't any consistency within reports, i wouldn't be able to tell you about a place in WA State that within a 20 and 30 mile radius of it, has a very, very abnormally high % of Sasquatch reports in Spring compared to the immediate area that it's within where Spring, like it is at all other time is the majority of the time, the season with the second lowest amount of reports.

 

If there wasn't any consistency within collective reports i wouldn't be able to tell you than in a certain State in the US that saw a big growth in a specific City, Sasquatch reports in and around there dropped off almost completely and went, in perfect timeline from East ( the City ) to West ( new area ), 75 to slap bang in the middle of one of the biggest Mule Deer and Elk migration paths ( i paid for the Google Earth files from a hunting site that confirmed them ) on the Continent where Sasquatch reports had been virtually nil before the growth of the City, and then absolutely boomed and continue to do so until this very day. But i can tell you that because that's what the reports tell us.

 

Of course, you won't know that nor will many else but don't tell me that collective analysis of hundreds/thousands of reports is meaningless because again, i'll tell you that what you're saying is utter rubbish.

 

Analysis of accurate data in life makes the world go round across the board.

 

It pays my bills currently and i have no doubt whatsoever that at some stage in the future, the right kind of analysis of Sasquatch sighting reports will reveal results that will undoubtedly show information on the behavior of these animals.

 

I'm not talking about black ones and brown ones, one's that are 7ft tall and one's that are 8ft tall neither, i'm talking about patterns of movement at certain times of the year and patterns in other behavioral habits of these things.

 

It is possible, very possible and proof of that is in what i told you above.

 

If there wasn't consistency in reports, i wouldn't be able to tell you any of that.

 

We have to get our heads round how to best present this stuff admittedly so please nobody crucify me on what i've said above as i know it's loose but it isn't a secret, i just want to be able to present it in a way that everyone will understand as i believe that's crucial and we haven't quite got there yet.

 

If anyone's impatient about it, pay my bills and i'll do it quicker i promise..

 

Completely agree but you're again completely ignoring that consistencies can and have been found in collective reports, and reports numbering in their tens/hundreds/thousands combined, after qualified analysis.

What I can no longer ignore is that the reports whether consistent or not always lead to the same result of no proven Bigfoot.  Fantastic lengths are gone to as to why this is the result.  Is there a case (excluding Patterson) where a followup to sighting or evidence actually produced a tangible outcome?  Then there is the Patterson event which took place in an area where a known track hoaxer was active so even that is suspect to many.  IMO the more widespread sightings become with no body to show is weakening the case for the reality of the animal.  With the beast being in virtually off of the lower 48 states bagging one should be a cakewalk.

[BobbyO]

As i mentioned briefly Gumshoe, i spent some $ looking at Deer and Elk migration paths in Colorado because Sasquatch Sighting reports disappeared almost ( but not quite ) altogether from the Colorado Springs area from around 2000.

 

I couldn't understand why an area that had regular reports coming out of it for a couple of decades all of a sudden dropped off the radar so i looked into what happened at that time in the immediate area and found this 

 

 

I wondered if that signaled enough was enough for them at that particular time in that particular area, so then the question was " So where did they go ? " and i got searching.

 

I looked at the sightings, where did the sightings go around those years ?

 

Well, they went west and to a concentrated area that never saw a great deal of reports prior to these years, but then boomed beyond then to this day, so then the question was " Why this area ? " and i got searching.

 

I looked at the area and what it had there, and i found after paying for google earth files from hunting companies, two of the biggest migration routes for both Mule Deer and Elk on the continent as i had a sneaky feeling of where they would be, and then it all made sense.

 

As far as Lunar Phases go, i've just started to look into them more seriously ( about 6 months or so now ) and are running those numbers always alongside other stuff i do.

 

I'm also looking into Deer and Elk behavior in WA and am learning about that as i believe we could learn a lot from how they move, when they move, where they move to, and running Sasquatch reports alongside them plus the Lunar Phases, or not as the case may be.

 

We have a wonderful tool built in within our system that calculates the moon phases on any given day in history, and the moon phases numbers always run alongside any numbers i am crunching so i always have an eye on them.

 

It's all a learning process of course but i truly believe this type of research will be hugely beneficial in the coming years.

 

The key thing is i can spot things within number sets that stand out, consistencies or inconsistencies whatever the case may be, i do it as my day job currently with Sports Performance Analysis and that helps..

What I can no longer ignore is that the reports whether consistent or not ......

 

Woo Hoo, at least we're making progress..

[Guest thermalman]

^Hey Bobby. What animal population is illustrated in your graph? If it's deer and elk, why would a predator (BF) move out of the territory with a growing food source? Wouldn't it be natural for the population of predators to grow simultaneously?

Edited November 13, 2014 by thermalman

[Guest DWA]

You guys have made me roll off chair in laughter at times, for that I thank you. All of the points you hit on were sound time and again. I see it, I get it and many others do as well. I dabbled with Bigfoot and lunar cycles and just could not see any patterns or repetitious cycles and quickly abandoned the idea, as just a waste of my time. You on the other hand have found the piece to the puzzle and I am dying to know where and how I overlooked it.  

 

The thing about this is that it's a multivariate analysis, and pings are happening all over the map.  To all the things BobbyO plots on one can add the consistencies in behavior and morphology that are perfectly congruent with those of known primates, the great apes in particular.  Every time I read a report I tick off all the guidebook consistencies I have seen in the other reports I have read.  There are rarely fewer than five.  The variety of ways one can say "compliant gait" or "sagittal crest" or "midtarsal break" or "prognathous jaw", without even knowing what those things are, are...well, about as varied as English.  And the reports prove it.  The voices are all the voices of a continent.  If they're all fake, then voila!  we have the Great American Novel.  People just are not this good...unless they are all describing a similar thing they all saw.  I can't see how anyone can understand what's up with these reports if one has not read them and drawn from an entire lifetime of experience, particularly of animals and the outdoors, in thinking about them.  And note that we aren't even talking about the footprints...which dovetail, with a precision one does not see outside wild nature, with the reports.  And we have a film that ties the whole thing up with a bow.  Sometimes, people, denial is denial.

 

What I can no longer ignore is that the reports whether consistent or not always lead to the same result of no proven Bigfoot.  Fantastic lengths are gone to as to why this is the result.

 

Nope, not fantastic to those who have read the reports.  How in the name of science do anecdotes lead to a result?  They propose a test, which if science does not perform the test, we have no result!  Which, surprise, we don't.  (No surprise, to those who are read up.)

 

Oh wait.  We have a result.  Ask Meldrum, Bindernagel, Mionczyinski, Alley, Krantz et al, the scientists who have performed the test.  Not their colleagues who are admirably imitating The Three Monkeys.

 

That's the bigfoot skeptic's approach:  sit on hands and declare no proof, rather than figuring out the obvious real-world reasons, following logically from everything known, why we don't have the proof.

 

 

Is there a case (excluding Patterson) where a followup to sighting or evidence actually produced a tangible outcome?  

 

What?  You mean a tangible outcome acceptable to you?  If what you mean is "have many people following up on the evidence found more?" the answer is a resounding YES.  To the question "is the animal essentially proven to them on the evidence?" an equally resounding YES.  If what you want is something handed to you on a platter, no scientist gets that until he has followed the evidence.  So you won't either.

 

Then there is the Patterson event which took place in an area where a known track hoaxer was active so even that is suspect to many.  IMO the more widespread sightings become with no body to show is weakening the case for the reality of the animal.  With the beast being in virtually off of the lower 48 states bagging one should be a cakewalk.

 

Every sentence in that paragraph is wrong, in ways obvious to those who have read up and thought about this.

 

Um...SEE!?!?

Edited November 13, 2014 by DWA

[Guest]

Booby O - 

First let me say “Go Lions!†Sorry my friend, it too is seasonal and impulsive. That is an example of consistency and inconsistency.

 

Incredible! Thank you for sharing that. I sort of knew there was something in the lunar cycles useful in this topic, police officers, nurses know as do many first responders full well that “things†step up a notch during lunar cyclical changes. Whether they will admit as much is another story for another time.

 

It has been generally known that our natural bodies consist two thirds of water and if full moon phases of lunar cycles are valid, I would think there is much to learn of cyclical changes. Gravitational pulls on water and lunar changes certainly seem to be undeniably intertwined, and as I have noticed from personal experience strange things do occur during times of full moons.  

 

Just as incredibly profound is that many deaths occur around 3:00 a.m. and many new babies are welcomed into this scary world around the same hour, and yet, I do not know of any studies that correlate the two. Equally curious to me is why most paranormal experiences are reported around… you guessed it, the same 3:00 a.m. hours.

 

I have successfully used the study of timelines including: Location, Types of incidents,  Years, Months, Days, Hours, Seasons in my work for a very different quarry before I retired, and study and analysis it as say very telling and predictable, so well it raised some eyebrows.

 

 

 

When you were looking over the movement habits was that specific to Washington or did you follow the paths from their origin?

 

 

Good post DWA, thanks!

Edited November 13, 2014 by Gumshoeye

[David NC]

Thermalman. The graph above was for the human population growth in and around Colorado Springs.