MIB Posted November 25, 2014 Moderator Posted November 25, 2014 Has Sykes ever made a firm statement on whether the Zana DNA represented a recent migration from Africa vs an ancient migration from Africa? I recall speculation but nothing from Sykes. Perhaps this is what's coming? Seems like it would fit the title. MIB
JustCurious Posted November 25, 2014 Posted November 25, 2014 Based on my reading of the report, the human result was attributed to contamination. There's a specific statement about the effectiveness of the cleansing process. Here's the full report: Genetic analysis of hair samples attributed to yeti, bigfoot and other anomalous primatesBryan C. Sykes1⇑,Rhettman A. Mullis2,Christophe Hagenmuller3,Terry W. Melton4 andMichel Sartori5,6+ Author Affiliations1Institute of Human Genetics, Wolfson College, University of Oxford, Oxford OX2 6UD, UK2PO Box 40143, Bellevue, WA 98005, USA3NaturAlpes, Annecy-Le-Vieux 74940, France4Mitotyping Technologies, 2565 Park Center Boulevard, State College, PA 16801, USA5Museum of Zoology, Palais de Rumine, Lausanne 1014, Switzerland6Museum of Zoology and Grindel Biocentre, Hamburg 20146, Germanye-mail: bryan.sykes@wolfsonox.ac.ukAbstractIn the first ever systematic genetic survey, we have used rigorous decontamination followed by mitochondrial 12S RNA sequencing to identify the species origin of 30 hair samples attributed to anomalous primates. Two Himalayan samples, one from Ladakh, India, the other from Bhutan, had their closest genetic affinity with a Palaeolithic polar bear, Ursus maritimus. Otherwise the hairs were from a range of known extant mammals.yetialmastybigfootsasquatchmitochondrial DNA1. IntroductionDespite several decades of research, mystery still surrounds the species identity of so-called anomalous primates such as the yeti in the Himalaya, almasty in central Asia and sasquatch/bigfoot in North America. On the one hand, numerous reports including eye-witness and footprint evidence, point to the existence of large unidentified primates in many regions of the world. On the other hand, no bodies or recent fossils of such creatures have ever been authenticated. There is no shortage of theories about what these animals may be, ranging from surviving populations of collateral hominids such as Homo neanderthalensis, Homo floresiensis [1] or Denisovans [2], extinct apes such as Gigantopithecus [3] or even unlikely hybrids between Homo sapiens and other mammals [4]. Modern science has largely avoided this field and advocates frequently complain that they have been ‘rejected by science’ [5]. This conflicts with the basic tenet that science neither rejects nor accepts anything without examining the evidence. To apply this philosophy to the study of anomalous primates and to introduce some clarity into this often murky field, we have carried out a systematic genetic survey of hair samples attributed to these creatures. Only two ‘tongue-in-cheek’ scientific publications report DNA sequence data from anomalous primates. Milinkovitch et al. [6], after analysis of a Nepalese sample, confirmed Captain Haddock's suspicions that the yeti was an ungulate [7]. The same conclusion was reached by Coltman et al. [8] after analysis of sasquatch hair from Alaska.2. Material and methodsHair samples submissions were solicited from museum and individual collections in a joint press release issued on 14 May 2012 by the Museum of Zoology, Lausanne and the University of Oxford. A total of 57 samples were received and subjected to macroscopic, microscopic and infrared fluorescence examination to eliminate obvious non-hairs. This excluded one sample of plant material and one of glass fibre. Of the screened samples, 37 were selected for genetic analysis based on their provenance or historic interest. Lengths (2–4 cm) of individual hair shaft were thoroughly cleaned to remove surface contamination, ground into a buffer solution in a glass homogenizer then incubated for 2 h at 56°C in a solution containing proteinase K before extraction with phenol/chloroform/isoamyl alcohol. PCR amplification of the ribosomal mitochondrial DNA 12S fragment corresponding to bps 1093–1196 of the human mitochondrial genome was carried out [9,10]. Recovered sequences were compared to GenBank accessions for species identification.3. Results and discussionThe table 1 shows the GenBank species identification of sequences matching the 30 samples from which DNA was recovered. Seven samples failed to yield any DNA sequences despite multiple attempts. As the sequence of mitochondrial 12S RNA segment is identical in H. sapiens and H. neanderthalensis, amplification and sequencing of mitochondrial DNA hypervariable region 1 (bps 16 000–16 400) of no. 25072 was carried out and identified the source as being identical to the revised Cambridge Reference Sequence [11] and thus H. sapiens of likely European matrilineal descent. Other submitted samples were of known mammals that in most cases were living within their normal geographical range, the exceptions being sample nos. 25025 and 25191 (Ursus maritimus, polar bear) from the Himalayas, no. 25074 (Ursus americanus, American black bear) and no. 25075 (Procyon lotor, raccoon) that were submitted from Russia even though they are native to North America.View this table:Genetic analysis of hair samples attributed to yeti, bigfoot and other anomalous primatesTable 1.Origin and GenBank sequence matches of hair samples attributed to anomalous primates. (All sequence matches were 100%.)ref. no. location attribution GenBank sequence match common name25025 Ladakh, India yeti U. maritimus polar bear25191 Bhutan yeti/migyhur U. maritimus polar bear25092 Nepal yeti Capricornis sumatraensis serow25027 Russia almasty U. arctos brown bear25039 Russia almasty Equus caballus horse25040 Russia almasty Bos taurus cow25041 Russia almasty Equus caballus horse25073 Russia almasty Equus caballus horse25074 Russia almasty U. americanus American black bear25075 Russia almasty P. lotor raccoon25194 Russia almasty U. arctos brown bear25044 Sumatra orang pendek Tapirus indicus Malaysian tapir25035 AZ, USA bigfoot P. lotor raccoon25167 AZ, USA bigfoot Ovis aries sheep25104 CA, USA bigfoot U. americanus American black bear25106 CA, USA bigfoot U. americanus American black bear25081 MN, USA bigfoot Erethizon dorsatum N. American porcupine25082 MN, USA bigfoot U. americanus American black bear25202 OR, USA bigfoot U. americanus American black bear25212 OR, USA bigfoot C. lupus/latrans/domesticus wolf/coyote/dog25023 TX, USA bigfoot Equus caballus horse25072 TX, USA bigfoot Homo sapiens human25028 WA, USA bigfoot U. americanus American black bear25029 WA, USA bigfoot C. lupus/latrans/domesticus wolf/coyote/dog25030 WA, USA bigfoot Bos taurus cow25069 WA, USA bigfoot Odocoileus virginianus/hemionus white-tailed/mule deer25086 WA, USA bigfoot Bos taurus cow25093 WA, USA bigfoot C. lupus/latrans/domesticus wolf/coyote/dog25112 WA, USA bigfoot Bos taurus cow25113 WA, USA bigfoot C. lupus/latrans/domesticus wolf/coyote/dogTable 1.Origin and GenBank sequence matches of hair samples attributed to anomalous primates. (All sequence matches were 100%.)Despite the wide range of age and condition of the submitted hair shafts, which ranged from fresh to museum specimens more than 50 years old, the majority yielded mitochondrial 12S RNA sequences which allowed species identification with 100% sequence identity. Of the recovered sequences, only one (no. 25072) yielded a human sequence, indicating that the rigorous cleaning and extraction protocol had been effective in eliminating extraneous human contamination which often confounds the analysis of old material and may lead to misinterpretation of a sample as human or even as an unlikely and unknown human x mammalian hybrid [4]. The deliberately permissive primer combination used here allowed a wide range of mammalian DNA to be amplified within a single reaction, although this meant that some identification did not go beyond the level of genus. For example, no. 25029 was identified as Canis but did not distinguish between Canis lupus (wolf), Canis latrans (coyote) and Canis domesticus (domestic dog).Sequences derived from hair sample nos. 25025 and 25191 had a 100% match with DNA recovered from a Pleistocene fossil more than 40 000 BP of U. maritimus (polar bear) [12] but not to modern examples of the species. Hair sample no. 25025 came from an animal shot by an experienced hunter in Ladakh, India ca 40 years ago who reported that its behaviour was very different from a brown bear Ursus arctos with which he was very familiar. Hair sample no. 25191 was recovered from a high altitude (ca 3500 m) bamboo forest in Bhutan and was identified as a nest of a migyhur, the Bhutanese equivalent of the yeti. The Ladakh hairs (no. 25025) were golden-brown, whereas the hair from Bhutan (no. 25191) was reddish-brown in appearance. As the match is to a segment only 104 bp long, albeit in the very conserved 12S RNA gene, this result should be regarded as preliminary. Other than these data, nothing is currently known about the genetic affinity of Himalayan bears and although there are anecdotal reports of white bears in Central Asia and the Himalayas [13,14], it seems more likely that the two hairs reported here are from either a previously unrecognized bear species, colour variants of U. maritimus, or U. arctos/U. maritimus hybrids. Viable U. arctos/U. maritimus hybrids are known from the Admiralty, Barayanov and Chicagov (ABC) islands off the coast of Alaska though in the ABC hybrids the mitochondrial sequence homology is with modern rather than ancient polar bears [15]. If they are hybrids, the Ladakh and Bhutan specimens are probably descended from a different hybridization event during the early stages of species divergence between U. arctos and U. maritimus. Genomic sequence data are needed to decide between these alternatives. If these bears are widely distributed in the Himalayas, they may well contribute to the biological foundation of the yeti legend, especially if, as reported by the hunter who shot the Ladakh specimen, they behave more aggressively towards humans than known indigenous bear species.With the exception of these two samples, none of the submitted and analysed hairs samples returned a sequence that could not be matched with an extant mammalian species, often a domesticate. While it is important to bear in mind that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence and this survey cannot refute the existence of anomalous primates, neither has it found any evidence in support. Rather than persisting in the view that they have been ‘rejected by science’, advocates in the cryptozoology community have more work to do in order to produce convincing evidence for anomalous primates and now have the means to do so. The techniques described here put an end to decades of ambiguity about species identification of anomalous primate samples and set a rigorous standard against which to judge any future claims.Data accessibilityDNA sequences: GenBank accession nos. KJ155696–KJ155724 and KJ607607. Voucher samples of the research materials have been deposited in the Heuvelmans Archive at the Museum of Zoology, Lausanne, Switzerland.Funding statementWe also thank Harry Marshall and Icon Films for their contribution to the costs of analysis.AcknowledgementsWe thank Reinhold Messner, Peter Byrne, Justin Smeja, Bart Cutino, Derek Randles, Dan Shirley, Garland Fields, Loren Coleman, Betty Klopp, Marcel Cagey, Sam Cagey, Lori Simmons, Adam Davies, Dr Mike Amaranthus, Mike Long, Patrick Spell, Maxwell David, Mark McClurkan, Rob Kryder, Jack Barnes, Jeff Anderson, David Ellis, Steve Mattice, Brenda Harris, Stuart Fleming, Igor Burtsev, Dmitri Pirkulov, Michael Trachtengerts and Dmitri Bayanov for submitting samples and for their progressive stance in doing so. Thanks also to, Ray Crowe, Ronnie Roseman, Greg Roberts and Tom Graham for discussing their experiences and to Jeff Meldrum and Anna Nekaris for advice and guidance. We are very grateful to Ken Goddard, Ed Espinoza, Mike Tucker, Barry Baker, Bonnie Yates, Cookie Smith and Dyan Straughan of the US Fish and Wildlife Service Forensic Laboratory, Ashland, OR, USA, for help with forensic methods of trace evidence analysis and to Charity Holland, Bonnie Higgins, Gloria Dimick and Michele Yon for technical assistance.Received January 21, 2014.Accepted March 27, 2014.© 2014 The Authors. Published by the Royal Society under the terms of the Creative Commons Attribution License http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/, which permits unrestricted use, provided the original author and source are credited.Previous SectionReferencesBrown P, Sutikna T, Morwood M, Soejono R, Jatmiko E, Saptomo E, Awa Due R. 2004 A new small-bodied hominin from the Late Pleistocene of Flores, Indonesia. Nature 431, 1055–1061. (doi:10.1038/nature02999)Reich D, et al. 2010 Genetic history of an archaic hominin group in Denisova Cave in Siberia. Nature 468, 1053–1060. 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Lake County Bigfooot Posted November 25, 2014 Author Posted November 25, 2014 As you read the report is seems to say that the cleansing process was effective, and that would have to make the sample human, not contaminated. Well they made the point to deliberate on that fact, so maybe there is something to look at further. I agree with Lightheart that the original description of the book was talking about the Polar Bear discovery, so again I am confused why the title is changing.
Guest lightheart Posted November 25, 2014 Posted November 25, 2014 What stands out for me in the report is that the new way of cleaning the samples sets the bar so to speak for the testing that will be done in the future. If the DNA comes back human or even human hybrid, claims of contamination can be ruled out. I too have been mulling the new title and I am thinking that the wording has significance.....Evidence For the Survival of Ape Men into Modern Times. I am especially interested in the word FOR. And APE MEN. This could lead somewhere IMHO. Another consideration is that in addition to being friends with Rhettman Mullis, Professor Sykes also is very good friends with Adam Davies who has a new book out called Manbeast and Lori Simmons who also has a book. Apparently Sykes actually had some kind of encounter when they took him to their research area. There is not much info available about this but I know I read it somewhere.
Cotter Posted November 25, 2014 Posted November 25, 2014 I just realized, if this book and research was done properly it will effectively eliminate a broken record in the BF world. "Show me one piece of verifiable evidence"
Guest DWA Posted November 26, 2014 Posted November 26, 2014 (edited) " Rather than persisting in the view that they have been ‘rejected by science’, advocates in the cryptozoology community have more work to do in order to produce convincing evidence for anomalous primates and now have the means to do so." Well, no. Submitting hair can - as we certainly see here - lead to intriguing results. But "advocates in the cryptozoology community" sure don't devote the time to this required to find that bear. And they have not committed the time required to confirm hairy hominoids barring lottery-style luck which hasn't happened yet. And they won't commit the time; they aren't earning any money doing that. Sykes errs in putting the onus on amateurs. The seriousness with which the report shows the claims of hairy hominoids are taken puts the onus on the scientific community to get involved, in things that will generate proof - as Sykes himself notes this won't - as they are the ones schooled, paid, equipped and charged by the society to do this. Edited November 26, 2014 by DWA
Lake County Bigfooot Posted December 2, 2014 Author Posted December 2, 2014 (edited) Sykes and Adam Davies had some pretty close encounters of the terrestrial kind when he was over here.. Which for certain has Sykes favoring the idea of a real relic hominid roaming the Pacific Northwest, from what I heard in an Adam Davies interview they were within yards of one, and it screamed directly at them, or roared, whatever you want to term it, not something you soon forget, or disregard as hoaxed. Listen to the interview on Cyrpto Logic Radio, Adam Davies...ManBeasts Edited December 2, 2014 by Lake County Bigfooot
Lake County Bigfooot Posted April 13, 2015 Author Posted April 13, 2015 (edited) Well as suspected the book does exactly that, purporting that Zana was one such relic, and that is at first unsurprising and secondly, completely astounding. To have someone of Sykes ilk to support this notion should be a good day for the research of this creature, and yet no one seems to have the slightest clue to the implications of his research if it is accurate, which undoubtedly will be questioned, and has been already. Ironically the attacks have been of a more personal nature rather than scientific. Hardly should be a surprise that this is the response we get from the scientific community. I will be reading the book to make some further comments, but it is now available at Amazon. Edited April 13, 2015 by Lake County Bigfooot
Guest lightheart Posted April 13, 2015 Posted April 13, 2015 I noticed LCB.......supposedly the relict hominids in question were thought to have left Africa 100,000 years ago. Branco has stated that under a microscope the hairs he has seen look either Asian, African, or Caucasian. He has seen examples of all three different groups. It struck me when I read the beginning of Sykes's book that some of the African linage hairs may have come from individuals whose ancestors were brought here from Africa as slaves. I was hoping for a more definitive answer for what they are from this study. Maybe there are several sub species involved in this conundrum and this is one of the first pieces of the puzzle. I find this new information significant.....
Guest lightheart Posted April 14, 2015 Posted April 14, 2015 I went back and reread some of the write-ups about the book trying to find mention of the African slave idea. Apparently I misread this part and in one of the reviews it was mentioned that the Ottomans brought slaves from Africa to near where Zana was found. Another comment stated that the Ottomans brought the slaves from East Africa and Zana's Dna was from West Africa. Probably no connection. Sorry for the error friends....
Guest Divergent1 Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) One thing you should realize is that Africa enslaved their own people. It is not that unusual to find West African DNA on the East African coast because tribes took hostages and also traded those slave/hostages. The West Africans then sold their slaves to the Turks and Jewish slavers in turn. The only reason I can think that Sykes would not go for the obvious explanation is because of the reports about Zana's size, the way she behaved and looked, the red eyes, and other details. Supposedly her son had a daughter that had red eyes, there has to be some kind of genetic evidence for that eye color which would be different from what you find in the current population. Edited April 15, 2015 by Divergent1
Guest lightheart Posted April 15, 2015 Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) Well that certainly adds a new wrinkle. Thank you for the additional info Divergent. The way the different reviews read make it a little tricky to see the bigger picture. I know I read somewhere that the hominids with this particular Dna were thought to have left Africa about 100,000 years ago. Edited April 15, 2015 by lightheart
jayjeti Posted April 25, 2015 Posted April 25, 2015 Are there any articles out yet detailing exactly what Sykes says in his book? that gives a good recap?
Lake County Bigfooot Posted April 30, 2015 Author Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) Well what I have read of it points to a very significant discovery. Zana, by Sykes description, is a sub species of human, an ancient strain of west african that existed 100,000 years or so ago and was not thought to persist to modern times. She by all descriptions fit the bill for an Almasty. She was covered in redish brown hair excepting the breast and buttox, exhibited super human strength, refused clothing, slept naked in a hole she dug outdoors, never spoke any language, nor did she copy any language, stood 6' 6" and could lift a bushel of potatoes or grain with no strain whatsoever, hold it out in front of her without the slightest bit of shaking, swim a raging river after a winter thaw, out run horses, this is not you modern human by any stretch, but yet give birth to children of a modern human father, none of which were as robust as Zana, but they still possessed some of those traits. Her son Quits skull was measured and fell outside the homo sapien range, and by back tracking her descendants DNA Sykes could determine her west african origins. I am still reading the book so pardon my lack of depth here, I will return with more concerning the matter. Edited April 30, 2015 by Lake County Bigfooot
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