Sykes Book Defending The Notion Of Relic Hominids?

[Guest Divergent1]

Had Zana been reported to look and act like an ordinary HS of African descent she could still have indications in her DNA that trace her lineage from an unknown relic population. It's the reports of the way she looked and behaved that made Sykes wonder if she was from an existing population still living in Russia rather than simply a descendant of a slave who was subsequently descended from this unknown lineage. I say unknown because other native Africans have evidence that they are also descended from a lineage not documented in the fossil record.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaic_human_admixture_with_modern_humans

 

In 2011, after finding three candidate regions with introgression by searching for unusual patterns of variations—indicating a different origin—in 61 non-coding regions from two hunter-gatherers (Biaka Pygmies and San, shown significant for admixture in the data) and one West African agricultural group (Mandinka, shown not significant for admixture in the data), researchers concluded that roughly 2% of the genetic material found in some Sub-Saharan African populations was inserted into the human genome approximately 35,000 years ago from archaic hominins that broke away from the modern human lineage around 700,000 years ago.^[38]

[Lake County Bigfooot]

Considering we mostly all have Neanderthal DNA if we are of European descent, it's not a reach to conclude the interbreeding of human species

in the near past, perhaps much less than what science has told us, it is this notion that fuels speculation that not only such traces of DNA exist,

but that actual relics exist. For Sykes to suggest that Zana could be such a relic based on her pure strain of DNA, and the unlikely discovery of

that pure strain being intact in Russia, that is how I understand his conclusion being that she could represent a sort of sub-species, or feral

version of the same specie, by backtracking her Mitochondrial DNA from her descendants Sykes concluded she was 100% African, a very unlikely

development for an individual living in the Caucus region in the 19th century.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Lake County Bigfooot

[Guest Divergent1]

Not necessarily, the Ottomans imported African slaves from east Africa to Russia.

 

http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/middle-east/turkish-descendants-of-african-slaves-begin-to-discover-their-identity#page1

 

The only thing that makes any sense in what Sykes has suggested about Zana has to be based purely on her appearance, abilities, and behavior IMO. That might be the reason he looked at her genome in the first place. However, if what they said about Zana's physical appearance is true then there would be genetic markers for that, things like her red eyes and physical strength.

 

Eye genetics are complicated. Red eyes only appear in albinos in modern HSS. Supposedly her granddaughter had the same color of eyes but that depends on how "red" they really were and on what the local folks are calling "red". Some shades of amber look red, and that occurs naturally in HS of African descent.

 

Modern HSS have the genes for strength just like chimps but they're modified. It's possible that Zana's genes for strength were unchanged. I was looking for the research but I found this article that lists what genes difer in chimps versus humans that affect strength.

 

http://chimpanzeefacts.net/chimpanzee-strength.html

 

For example, one gene called the MYH16 contributed to the growth and development of very huge jaw muscles in apes. In people, MYH16 has actually been deactivated. Most people have lost another muscle–related gene called ACTN3.

[MIB]

As I understand it, mutations to mtDNA occur at a predictable rate.   The number of differences between Zana's DNA and other current sub Saharan African tribes' DNA point to a branching-away about 100,000 years ago.  In other words, identifiably part of the pool but not sharing the last 100,000 years or so of mixing.

 

That, if correct, eliminates recent slave trade and points to a migration.   It also would be the basis for the claim that her DNA could rewrite our understanding of the migration out of Africa because such a migration predates the accepted timeline.

 

MIB

Edited May 10, 2015 by MIB

[Guest Divergent1]

So few people have had their entire genomes sequenced. I think what you aren't understanding is that you can have those kinds of things show up in modern HSS.

 

http://news.discovery.com/human/genetics/african-american-earliest-man-130307.htm

 

You need something specific, like a trait that we definitely don't have anymore, to show up in the analysis. Nothing I've read says that is what he found with Zana's DNA, at least not yet.

[Lake County Bigfooot]

Oh my, the traits that Zana exhibited, previously mentioned, need you more in that regard, we are trying to point to a very odd finding of her DNA because that is 

the most scientific approach, yet a discussion of Zana's traits would indeed be conclusive, albeit we have no skeleton or actual photos, only descriptions and an 

artist rendition, but the skull of her son demonstrates that she was anything but a normal African slave.

[Guest Divergent1]

You have to be able to connect the "odd finding" in the DNA to the morphology or ability. Her son's skull had archaic features but so do some modern HSS. Based on his photo, he didn't look vastly different from any other person you see walking the streets today.

[Lake County Bigfooot]

Have you seen the artist painting of Zana, does that appear to be modern HSS. Not in my opinion, nor the fact she had super human strength and

speed, not to mention a hair covered body, or the fact she was impervious to cold. She only made primitive sounds, no attempt at language of any

kind, her own or imitation. She would not tolerate clothing or being indoors, all things we relish, you would be hard pressed to classify her as a modern human.

If her people were brought to the region, and set free at some point, or escaped, they certainly would have language and some type of culture to 

carry on. That just cannot explain the nature of this woman, and she certainly was that, a human woman, just a bit more archaic than we as we define

our own.  Nothing to be construed as racist here, she may have had a different skin color under that hair than her captors, but that would not have been

novel or even worth mentioning, nor would there be such a mythology surrounding her if she was not in fact a wild woman of the type described.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Lake County Bigfooot

[Sunflower]

As I understand it, mutations to mtDNA occur at a predictable rate.   The number of differences between Zana's DNA and other current sub Saharan African tribes' DNA point to a branching-away about 100,000 years ago.  In other words, identifiably part of the pool but not sharing the last 100,000 years or so of mixing.

 

That, if correct, eliminates recent slave trade and points to a migration.   It also would be the basis for the claim that her DNA could rewrite our understanding of the migration out of Africa because such a migration predates the accepted timeline.

 

MIB

 

If it is 100,000 then I agree it was a migration.  My dna shows that my "eve" left Ethiopia between 50,000 & 70,000 years ago.  Several of her original side trips occurred and we really have to look at the VERY LARGE picture here.   If Zana is of the area then it would explain so much.  As they migrated to the colder areas in search of food because more than one drought was probable then her people likely developed hair covered bodies and so on.  Thicker skin might be another aspect of their evolution. The language may have been lost being separated and isolated?  The case of feral (as we refer to it) people could explain some of this.  The Sahara was not always a desert and the actual place of their ancestors may not have been known to those inhabitants that left the Sub Saharan.  They followed the food essentially and made a living from the land that was available at the time and place where they lived.

[Guest Divergent1]

Have you seen the artist painting of Zana, does that appear to be modern HSS. Not in my opinion, nor the fact she had super human strength and

speed, not to mention a hair covered body, or the fact she was impervious to cold. She only made primitive sounds, no attempt at language of any

kind, her own or imitation. She would not tolerate clothing or being indoors, all things we relish, you would be hard pressed to classify her as a modern human.

If her people were brought to the region, and set free at some point, or escaped, they certainly would have language and some type of culture to 

carry on. That just cannot explain the nature of this woman, and she certainly was that, a human woman, just a bit more archaic than we as we define

our own.  Nothing to be construed as racist here, she may have had a different skin color under that hair than her captors, but that would not have been

novel or even worth mentioning, nor would there be such a mythology surrounding her if she was not in fact a wild woman of the type described.

She may have had genetic issues not related to her paleolithic ancestory. She appears to have features similar to a person with Down's syndrome. As I said, they need to connect a reported attribute that modern HSS doesn't have anymore with a genetic link to prove she was an actual relic hominid. You  have to take in consideration the ability of the artist to accurately represent what she looked like. It's not the same as having a photo of K'whit??sp to use for comparison.

[Lake County Bigfooot]

I am quite sure the novelty of this woman was far more than a genetic defect, but can I prove to you that she was indeed a relic or

perhaps a feral modern human, no I can not. However, I think the evidence to suggest that she was something other than we already

know is there. Sykes, be as he may, thought like yourself she must have been a slave, that was until the DNA results were gathered.

I think he is qualified to comment on the novelty of human DNA results.

[Guest Divergent1]

I seriously doubt Sykes would have said anything about it unless more research wasn't already being done on Zana'a line. I think it's way overdue.

[Oonjerah]

Bigfoot, Yeti, and the Last Neanderthal: A Geneticist's Search for Modern Apemen
    by Bryan Sykes

 

Now? Online, Feb in hardback, March in paperback.

 

Am I the last to know he's got a new book out? 

[Oonjerah]

Does he have a new book out?

Bigfoot, Yeti, and the Last Neanderthal: A Geneticist's Search for Modern Apemen  by Dr. Bryan Sykes

 

At least some of this "new" book is word-for-word the same as The Nature of the Beast.

 

Perhaps it's even the same book with a new title?

That'd be a deceptive thing to do unless they announce it.

[Lake County Bigfooot]

Well he certainly owes the subject something more than what he has put out so far, he is actually losing my respect to some degree due to his actions.