2015 The State Of Sasquatch Science

[Lake County Bigfooot]

I am 100% in support of your theories SWWASP, my point above was just to explain why this has not happened up till now.

Scavengers tend to scatter the bones and then rodents and porcupines and raccoon's eat the bones to obtain the calcium.

So being the intelligent creatures that they are, I do not think they would leave their dead to such a fate, I do believe that 

they employ some sort of crude burial method.  Remember my statements earlier about some of them at least sleeping during

daylight underground. It would make sense that if such places exist, well perhaps that would be the place to start looking for a

deceased creature, I think I need to do a little research on Native American opinions on Sasquatch and burial to see if there

is a history. I live near many NA burial grounds, and most are in the shape of animals, there might be a connection. The claims

of the red haired giants being found in California is worth considering, but these seemed to be more human than Sasquatch, of course there is much hidden at the Smithsonian, many burial sights were opened and stories abound of giant skeletal remains, practically everyone in the paranormal field claims some sort of unusual connection to these including Sasquatch researchers, but it is interesting given our discussion.

 

Name[edit]

"Si-Te-Cah" literally means “tule-eaters†in the language of the Paiute Indians. Tule is a fibrous water plant. In order to escape harassment from the Paiutes, the Si-Te-Cahs were said to have lived on rafts made of tule on the lake.

Oral history[edit]

According to the Paiutes, the Si-Te-Cah were red-haired band of cannibalistic giants.^[1] The Si-Te-Cah and the Paiutes were at war, and after a long struggle a coalition of tribes trapped the remaining Si-Te-Cah in Lovelock Cave. When they refused to come out, the Indians piled brush before the cave mouth and set it aflame. The Si-Te-Cah were annihilated.

Sarah Winnemucca Hopkins, daughter of Paiute Chief Winnemucca, wrote about what she described as "a small tribe of barbarians" who ate her people in her book Life Among the Piutes: Their Wrongs and Claims - she wrote that "after my people had killed them all, the people round us called us Say-do-carah. It means conqueror; it also means "enemy." "My people say that the tribe we exterminated had reddish hair. I have some of their hair, which has been handed down from father to son. I have a dress which has been in our family a great many years, trimmed with the reddish hair. I am going to wear it some time when I lecture. It is called a mourning dress, and no one has such a dress but my family."^[2] Hopkins does not mention giants.

Archaeology[edit]

Adrienne Mayor writes about the Si-Te-Cah in her book, Legends of the First Americans.^[3] She suggests that the 'giant' interpretation of the skeletons from Lovelock Cave and other dry caves in Nevada was started by entrepreneurs setting up tourist displays and that the skeletons themselves were of normal size. However, about a hundred miles north of Lovelock there are plentiful fossils of mammoths and cave bears, and their large limb bones could easily be thought to be those of giants by an untrained observer. She also discusses the reddish hair, pointing out that hair pigment is not stable after death and that various factors such as temperature, soil, etc. can turn ancient very dark hair rusty red or orange. Another explanation for the 'giant' interpretation of the skeletons may also come from the fact that some of the first remains unearthed by the guano miners in 1911-12 were described as “giant".^[4]

A written report by James H. Hart, the first of two miners to excavate the cave in the fall of 1911, recalls that in the north-central part of the cave, about four feet deep, "was a striking looking body of a man “six feet six inches tall.†His body was mummified and his hair distinctly red."^[5] Unfortunately in the first year of mining, some of the human remains and artifacts were lost and destroyed. "The best specimen of the adult mummies was boiled and destroyed by a local fraternal lodge, which wanted the skeleton for initiation purposes."^[6] Also, several of the fiber sandals found in the cave were remarkably large, and one reported at over 15 inches (38 cm) in length was said to be on display at the Nevada Historical Society's museum in Reno in 1952.^[7][8][9]

The Paiute tradition asserts that the Si-Te-Cah people practiced cannibalism, and this may have had some basis in fact. During the 1924 excavation of the cave, a series of three human bones were found near the surface towards the mouth of the cave. "These had been split to extract the marrow, as animal bones were split, and probably indicate cannibalism during a famine."^[10]

Edited February 26, 2015 by Lake County Bigfooot

[SWWASAS]

That is all good information.     We need to scour old reports and findings and perhaps some clues will be found on typical locations.       Like I said, they do not have backhoes or shovels so some other method must be used to dispose of bodies.     Elephants even care for the remains of their dead so it is not a uniquely human endeavor.    Caves, deep fissures,  lava tubes, are all possible solutions.     It could be regional too.    There seems to be some sort of connection with my local BF clan with a certain mountain that has been extensively logged.    In the late 1990s there were many reports of the Ohio Howl type vocalizations from the mountain.   Perhaps that is mourning behavior.    Even though BF may have moved away, perhaps I can find some sort of burial location up there.    Now that I have a new focus, areas I have given up on due to lack of contact may be new territory for me now.    The clear cut will just make it easier to explore.   

 

It just occurred to me that I need to start carrying a shovel and gloves to protect my hands if I have to search rock stacks. Also I need to get up to speed on human skeletal anatomy and skull features so I can tell the difference between human anatomy and something else I find.    Also with physical evidence I have to be careful who I tell so the Smithsonian does not show up and kindly offer to take it off my hands to study.  

Edited February 26, 2015 by SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT

[bipedalist]

I would have plenty of backup if I were to mess with a putative BF grave.  I'm not sure it would elicit the desired outcomes SWWSQP!  Or, you might get much more than you bargained for......  Shady Neighbors was an excellent book, I lived part of my life prepublication with a synchronicity that the book recounts all too clearly.  The book was in fact a montage of many true elements from many sightings wound up into one (as Thom recounted to me in person) superb work of fiction in my judgment. 

Edited February 27, 2015 by bipedalist

[MIB]

Plused.  I do not vandalize graves or mutilate corpses.    My interaction out there with them is predicated on mutual respect.   It's not a question of whether or not I could get away with it, it's about doing the right thing regardless of the cost ... and NOT doing the other kind regardless of the rewards.

 

MIB

[Lake County Bigfooot]

Un-burying the dead is definitely something to be careful concerning, I agree with the above post in that regard, but we were also talking

about just finding a spot one might go to die, and that might not be considered as sacred as a burial ground. I too would not want to uncover

human remains, so I guess I would extend that respect to anything that does itself bury it's dead. I will also have to read the book mentioned

above, cant get enough of that kind of reading.

[CMBigfoot]

If anyone is interested in finding and collecting bones. Put on some scuba gear and dive the deep pools of water under a waterfalls.

That's where I've seen a lot of bones in the wad of debris.

[MIB]

There's something to add, maybe, but I'm not sure exactly how to say it.    It is part of "look for bigfoot, find yourself."

 

I suspect they run on empathy and emotion more than dry intellect.   Show them the respect you'd want your child shown.   I hope that doesn't include cutting parts off.    If I found one of them dead, the only thing I'd know to do, the only thing that'd be "me" to do, is start digging a hole.   It's what we do.  It's empathy.  

 

It's that crazy mirror all over again.   What we rationalize doing to them reflects who we are.  Character.  Values.  

 

MIB

Edited February 27, 2015 by MIB

[Sunflower]

Thanks MIB and have one more thing to add.....they are people just different from us but very like some of us.  I plussed you today.

[MIB]

Back atcha, Sunflower.   I think our kind of people would do better to show a bit more empathy, to think about what we have in common first and focus less exclusively on our differences.  

 

MIB

[SWWASAS]

I am curious about the human feelings being expressed here.    Wouldn't it be better to use an already dead BF for proof than wait for someone to make a dead one?    How many live ones will pro-kill groups shoot to get the dead body under the right conditions?.      How many have already been shot and went off wounded to die?         Several of you seem to know that they revere and protect their dead.    How do you know that?     That certainly would be part of my investigation.    I suspect it might be true because of my rock pile find of a suspected grave.    I did not say that I avoided even touching the pile because I felt like I was being watched.   But over time even humans forget their dead.   A couple of generations later graves are no longer visited.

 

     It could very well be dangerous for me.   But then again field work looking for a live one is dangerous too.   With precautions finding a skeleton might not be any risk if that skeleton is the result of a natural disaster like avalanche,  land slide, or volcanic eruption or if they simply go off someplace crawl under a log to die.      Even if the BF do revere and protect their dead, finding one that the location is unknown to their clan poses little risk.   No one can know this stuff until someone investigates it.   It is just another path do to research.   I have already been cast as a grave robber and have no idea if they even make graves. 

Edited February 27, 2015 by SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT

[WSA]

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if they are interring their dead, and even putting grave goods in with them.  It seems a basic attribute of hominids, because as far as I know,  there is no similar behaviors in non-hominid apes.  The idea that they are doing this is a bright-line determination for me on the whole man vs. ape discussion too. 

 

And if they are doing it, I don't see how it could not be done without attributing some degree of reverence for the corpse and the living being it once was. It is sort of baked in the whole cake, because you have to know if it was all about concealment you wouldn't stack a pile of rocks on top of it, if that is what you are talking about. A being would be better off stuffing the corpse under a ledge somewhere, throwing a large log over it or even dismembering the body and broadcasting it around the forest floor, for more rapid decomposition.

After saying that, I had to do some quickie research about apes interring their dead. Seems there is some evidence that bonobos do that, on occasion. Hmmmm. Either we are more ape than we know, or bonobos are more human, one. From what I've been reading about human sexuality and bonobos lately though, I tend to think we are more like them than we might want to admit.

 

When I asked why the Iyaelima would not kill bonobos, the kapita said it would be murder, like taking a human life. Bonobos, he claimed, walk upright like we do, have humanlike eyes, cry, bury their dead, dance, speak, make bonfires, and most important, worship their ancestors like people do. "Kapita says when their ancestors meet the bonobo in forest, they see the bonobo talking around fire, just like they do," Lubuta added

[SWWASAS]

Another aspect is that if someone does find a tended grave, it is a great opportunity for hiding a camera or observing from some distance away.     Someplace where they go on a regular basis certainly presents a unique opportunity and other than a safe sleeping place, that might be the only place they visit with any frequency.      Certainly evidence of a tended grave or crypt, would be a warning to me to not disturb it.    It might even be an opportunity to place a bouquet of flowers myself to show respect.   That act might get some BF points.   I hope this alleviates some concerns people here have been expressing about me becoming a grave robber. 

[SWWASAS]

Gorillas in the wild, attack a dead gorilla as if trying to elicit some life response from it and then move on leaving the dead behind.    Chimpanzees will tend a naturally dying one, groom, stroke, and care for it especially in captivity.     But with chimps in the wild an accidental death like falling from a tree will elicit a response similar to gorillas, where they attack and beat on the dead, trying to get some response.    Female chimps will carry a dead baby for weeks.     So the response in apes seems to different depending on the species and the circumstances.    There have been accounts of BF being observed burying dead infants.   But I just cannot see that with an adult because of the size and lack of tools.    Perhaps more likely BF  behavior dealing with the dead,  would be found in ancestral humans like Neanderthals and others.  

[WSA]

Good points Randy. As I mentioned, I've been reading up on bonobo behavior, as it compares with chimps, and especially to us. I do think the bonobo, while not a perfect stand-in for a wilder human,  is a useful for comparison to get some idea of what a more primitive hominid might look like and how one would behave. I'm pretty convinced the BF is as much (more?) human than ape, but a much more primitive archetype, obviously. I also think grieving (which is well documented in various animal species...or at least something that appears to be grieving) provides only a short jump to interrment or other similar ritualistic ways of dealing with a corpse. For that it obviously helps to be bipedal and with opposable thumbs. Tools certainly would make the job easier, but digging is something a variety of animals do as second nature. I figure all the critter needs to do is have the faculties to grok that "hole" plus "dead body" = location for future focus for grief and memory.  It might also just be motivated by basic housekeeping...making sure the water and food sources don't get contaminated or that predators aren't drawn in.

[Lake County Bigfooot]

Part of me sometimes wonders if groups like the NAWAC might actually be pawns for the government, telling us that these creatures are nothing

more than apes, and thus should not be ascribed with human attributes, like Sasquatch Chronicles has leaned.  Shannon seems to not fully be on

board with that assessment, but Jevning is adamant in that regard. I know debate over that will not be solved easily, nor would a dead specimen

truly solve that mystery. I mean there is very little middle ground in this field, you have to be careful which way your being pulled. Books and Podcast

always seem to be pushing one or more views instead of simply presenting facts. I think that what is missing from this research is objectivity, and we

need to step back from the situation and not be skewed by the frenzy of talk and opinion. I for one do not have an opinion on the humanity of these

creatures, though I do believe that are not simply apes, what I heard on a summer night in 2013 made me think it was human at first, and that is always

going to haunt me, because I could read into it emotion, and that occurred the second time even more than the first, so my experience alone would

lead me to lean toward a more human quality, but again I am seeking to remain objective and open to whatever might be discovered. If the government

wanted to start a campaign of fear against these creatures, this community would be the right place to start.