2015 The State Of Sasquatch Science

[Lake County Bigfooot]

Three days till the release of the Sykes book, and I just saw the latest installment of Survivorman Bigfoot. It is my guess the book will be

a bit of a disappointment as was the Les Stroud show, but still I like to see Les out there. My bigger hope was that he would not do the 

show like he is, but do a prolonged investigation of a month or two in one area, and accumulate the clips. It is probably not realistic given

his responsibilities and schedule, but it would be more interesting than these overnights.My schedule at work is as predicted, long hours

six days a week, so I might be checking in Monday mornings and seeing whats new, 

[Guest DWA]

Survivorman doing overnights is like Babe Ruth doing nothing but bases on balls.  One month?  I was hoping *a year.*

[Sunflower]

here is a wiki link

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_American_disease_and_epidemics

 

Most everyone knows of what is reported (unsubstantiated) in Wiki but I specifically quoted the comment of Divergent1 regarding the Vikings...............???  Still no answer????  Try again.

[Rockape]

I was wrong but how did Susan Harjo get involved in a bigfoot thread? I'm glad to hear that you think you aren't racist since you certainly made some assumptions about me that weren't warranted. 

 

Where have I said anything about what race you are? The only assumption I have made about you is that you have absolutely no grip on the facts and have no idea what you are talking about. I don't know how you get that makes me racist. Susan Harjo got involved because that was the only thing I could think of to explain what you said.

 

But none of this has anything to do with the state of Sasquatch science. I just could not let something so factually incorrect go unchallenged. I'll not derail this thread any further.

[SWWASAS]

The Wikipedia article states that the peak epidemic period was in the mid 1600s which is 600 years after the Vikings. So there is an unlikely link to the Vikings. It is more likely that the epidemics of the 1600s were more related to Spanish and Western European explorers. The article says that 25 to 50% of some tribes in the worst cases died. The middle ages in Europe were a breeding ground for all kinds of disease when the agrarian farmer economies started changing into city dwelling masses of people. Sanitation was horrific and the true cause of disease unknown. Various plagues would sweep through the cities with huge mortality rates. At the end of the worst of that in Europe, Europeans started exploring and settling North America bringing disease with them. It was probably a good thing that a trip over here took as long as it did. Most of the serious disease carriers probably died before getting here or it could have been much worse for the NA.

[daveedoe]

Most everyone knows of what is reported (unsubstantiated) in Wiki but I specifically quoted the comment of Divergent1 regarding the Vikings...............???  Still no answer????  Try again.

 I tend to use wikipedia as a quick reference. I posted the link because I thought it may explain the timeline to less educated people like myself. I was curious and  needed a quick reference to the explain to me when the events most likely happened.

[Guest Divergent1]

Where have I said anything about what race you are? The only assumption I have made about you is that you have absolutely no grip on the facts and have no idea what you are talking about. I don't know how you get that makes me racist. Susan Harjo got involved because that was the only thing I could think of to explain what you said.

 

But none of this has anything to do with the state of Sasquatch science. I just could not let something so factually incorrect go unchallenged. I'll not derail this thread any further.

Being misinformed and lacking an understanding of facts are two entirely different things. You insinuated that I was racist by bringing her into the conversation and I called you out on it. It made you mad so now you are defensive. Leave if you like, or stay, either way it isn't my problem. 

[Rockape]

Being misinformed and lacking an understanding of facts are two entirely different things. You insinuated that I was racist by bringing her into the conversation and I called you out on it. It made you mad so now you are defensive. Leave if you like, or stay, either way it isn't my problem. 

No anger here. If something like this made me mad I would have never lasted in the Tar Pit. It is only disbelief that someone would make such an obviously incorrect statement. I don't think you are stupid or anything, I just don't think you thought that through well enough.

 

And no one insinuated you are a racist. As I said, I only mention her because it was the only sense I could make of such a nonsensical statement. It was clear in your first reply to the question you had no idea what I meant, so I knew there was no connection. You were the one who kept on about her. I do apologise however if you think that was my intent. I assure you it wasn't.

 

But lost in all of this is a good point you did make, that being, disease could have effected Sasquatch population. There is no doubt that disease took a terrible toll on many Native American tribes, small pox being the main one. So if Sasquatch shares enough DNA with humans, it is possible they would be subject to the same diseases as humans. It could be a reason they avoid us like the plague, pardon the pun. They know we carry disease.

[WSA]

Rockape....I've long considered a mass die-off by human borne pathogens as a possible scenario, as many have.  The outcome might be a natural selection of BF with a predisposition to avoid human contact...not because they understood germ theory, but because they simply didn't want to be around humans to begin with and those who did vacated the gene pool.

[SWWASAS]

There would be isolated pockets of people that have little or no contact with other humans that would survive such a pandemic. Certainly BF would be better off that most humans because they try to avoid contact. The airplane probably puts humanity in more danger than it ever has been in before. Someone can carry a disease half way around the planet in less than 24 hours. The recent ebola thing really shows how crazy people get with a deadly disease. Exposed people refusing to stay in quarantine and that sort of thing.

[Bodhi]

I'm new here but haven't things gotten a bit off topic?

Is there any ongoing discussion regarding the use of dna barcoding or environmental dna to collect samples? I realize these methods have been around for about 3 years but I thought that now that costs are rapidly coming down these might be relevant to the state of sasquatch science?

[Guest DWA]

Yep, Bodhi, a bit off topic.  Sorta happens here.

 

My problem with DNA is that (1) there is no screening or vetting of what is submitted for testing, leading to potential for much wasted time; (2) there is no type specimen against which to compare; and (3) there is an easier and more direct method:  what NAWAC is doing.

 

As to (1), I am not against testing.  Problem is, too many submitted samples don't get tested at all, because the people they are sent to are a priori convinced the animal isn't real.  I really get tired of people saying This Can't Happen 'Coz Scientists.  That is why it happens; they're busy people; they can't deal with nonsense; and mainstream comments show they consider this nonsense, and create huge pressure against anyone trying to buck the tide.  Testing samples is expensive and time-consuming.  If you just *know* it is a waste of time...you just *know* it is.  Most scientists will test a unicorn sample as readily as a bigfoot sample.

 

As to (2), the absence of anything science can point to as proof mounts the bar against any test results submitted.  Contamination will always be suspected; results that clash with expectations will always be questioned; and you aren't going to get the scientific community to just uniformly acknowledge something for which they have stated, using their words, that it is beyond their comprehension that something like this could be out there and unconfirmed.  

 

As to (3), the problem with the approach is that NAWAC does not have mainstream imprimatur (even though scientists in relevant fields are working with NAWAC).  It would be hard for me to believe that a prominent scientist, sent out there to Area X and charged specifically with evaluating the proceedings with an open mind, would come back from a month of the kind of stuff reported in NAWAC's research monograph saying "nothing to see here, folks, that's people doing that".  Folks think there must be proof.  

 

Wrong.  All there must be is someone with the mainstream cred to drive research resources to have an experience telling him:  there is something big-time to see here.

 

 

[Drew]

Oh dear heavens Dr. Sykes...

 

 

Look at what he’s claiming. An African woman was enslaved by 19th century racists, and she left some descendants. Sykes has analyzed DNA from people in that region and found evidence of an infusion of West African DNA into the population: you should be feeling zero surprise. A person lived, had children, died, and her descendants carry traces of her genome. That’s basic biology.

But then it goes off the rails. Sykes unquestioningly accepts the accounts of 19th century racists who regarded this woman as an animal to say that the evidence of West African ancestry somehow supports his contention that she was an ‘ape woman’ who was descended from some relic population of a Homo sub-species that had been hiding in the Caucasus Mountains for millennia, giving rise to legends of yetis and bigfoot and other beast-men in the wilderness.

That makes no sense. His own DNA analysis says she was 100 per cent African. You know “African†is not a synonym for “pre-humanâ€, right? But he has written a whole book titled The Nature of the Beast (horrid title that also manages to suggest that an enslaved African woman was less than human), in which he advances this ludicrous theory, and the Times has obligingly fluffed it for him. At least it’ll appeal to all the UKIP voters.

http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2015/04/06/zana-the-ape-woman-or-bryan-sykes-the-incompetent/#more-23314 

Edited April 7, 2015 by Drew

[Guest DWA]

Wait.  Wasn't Sykes "science" a thread or so ago?

 

(He is a mainstream scientist.)

Edited April 7, 2015 by DWA

[Drew]

He is a hoaxer now.

 

http://biochemistri.es/post/115493784606/debunking-bryan-sykes-times

 

[The 2014 Royal Society journal paper] gave Sykes’s affiliation as the Institute of Human Genetics at Wolfson College, Oxford. Sykes is a fellow of Wolfson but he admitted the institute was mythical. “The journal required some sort of additional address in the college and, hey presto, I became an institute!â€

 

Sykes’s book says he has been professor of human genetics at Oxford since 1997, but university officials said he had not held that post for a decade or so.