Guest Crowlogic Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Crow, Your logic, apparently somewhat linear in trajectory omits one factor, prevalent in homo sapiens....love. An example would be the soldier throwing him/herself onto the grenade in order to save the lives of his/her buddies...why? This documented behavior appears to transcend the sterile evaulations of human behavior endemic in many forums where critical thought is foisted as the orders of the day, causing a gag reflex amongst the intellectuals therein. Yours is the mindset of those who have not yet observed things that cannot be explained in academic terms for such an event is almost always such a powerful emotional & intellectual paradigm shift, the observer is forever transformed. Only those who have partaken of such exposure(s) truly know of whence I speak. The false prophets in this arena...are legion. Actually I have observed things that offer no rational explanation. I have encountered what could best be described as ghosts where I lived long before I learned that what I had seen was the image of a previous owner of my house. But where bigfoot is concerned I offered it most of the dispensations that are given the subject as to why there is no true proof. Such as, the vastness of the PNW, it's rarity, it's stealth, it's intelligence and so on. From 1968 through to the early 90's I subscribed to the possibility. A break of a dozen years and a modern reentry into the subject more or less had me certain that by now it was a proven done deal. Instead I discovered that the subject had essentially progressed nowhere since the PGF. The subject simply gained a whole new crop of people and a whole new crop of parlor tricks and media platforms to play in and perform under the bigfoot bigtop. Currently I am immersing myself in bigfoot media, not to seek proof as there is nothing in the media supplying proof but to understand how and why the game get's played.
WSA Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Dang it! Another worthy driven from the field due to BF's inability to adhere to his expect timetable. Have they no common decency! Crowlogic, you continue to be frustrated because this confirmation event hasn't happen within a period that you (rather arbitrarily, I might add) have determined to be the necessary amount of time. To which, I just have to reply, "Says who?" There is no timetable, no statute of limitations, no end of season....none of that exists except in the mind of the impatient. Those who cannot, or will not, accept that idea will be driven either to distraction (happens a lot) or to hard-boiled skepticism (ditto). As a root of skepticism, that has to be one of the weakest, I just think. 2
Guest Crowlogic Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) Dang it! Another worthy driven from the field due to BF's inability to adhere to his expect timetable. Have they no common decency! Crowlogic, you continue to be frustrated because this confirmation event hasn't happen within a period that you (rather arbitrarily, I might add) have determined to be the necessary amount of time. To which, I just have to reply, "Says who?" There is no timetable, no statute of limitations, no end of season....none of that exists except in the mind of the impatient. Those who cannot, or will not, accept that idea will be driven either to distraction (happens a lot) or to hard-boiled skepticism (ditto). As a root of skepticism, that has to be one of the weakest, I just think. Well a half century is a pretty liberal time allotment. And that brings up another aspect that drives posts as I am quoting. Often when a reasonable person abandons the possibility of bigfoot the remaining proponents issue forth that there must be something wrong with the person walking away. Borderline cult thinking perhaps? Lastly my abandonment is not because it does not happen it is because it has not happened and it has not happened in spite of each and every claim, effort, trick, tool or gimmick. And this is for a half a century. Don't look to me as being impatient look within why the black hole of proof can be thought to deliver any more than it has. Edited March 5, 2015 by Crowlogic
Guest Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 I completely disagree with any notion of Denial, and particularly that Denial leads to ignoring the evidence. I'm a trained scientist. And I can tell you any biologist on the planet would give their left nut (or ovary) to be the one who unveiled the existance of BF to the world. But the sad truth is: there is no proof! None! Zip! Notta. I keep looking, so far nothing! I've run several dozen guarantted to be BF samples - hair, scat, snot, for DNA - and i get Human, or cow, or Llama, or Horse, or bear! So how many of these guaranteed for sure 100% samples should I run ? (interesting that now days, possessors of the samples have decided they don't want to pay for the DNA work to be done, not sure why. financially they would become overnight multimillionaires if the provided the proof - but they all seem to be reluctant to throw a couple of hundred bucks at actually proving what their 100% guaranteed sample really is. I've looked a Munns work and his claims and his attempts, outragously amateurish pseudoscience is the best complement i can come up with. And how many times do we need to be subjected to the I shot bigfoot, come pay me to look at the body / video etc scams. scientifically, we can never prove that Bigfoot DOES NOT exist. But each and every dasy that goes by - thats more negative data added to the mountain of negative data. Each day no one shoots bigfoot, or runs em over in their vehicle, or gets a clear unequivocal photograph, or provided a sample with novel DNA, or marries one! Whatever. Negative data does have value, and in this case - there are boatloads of rock solid unequivocal "nope, no bigfoot today" datapoints, and a very small handful of maybe, if you close one eye and squint just right after drinking a few Jageermeisters, it might be BF! data points. Responsible inquisitive scientists are not anxious to deny or ignore BF, they just require that someone, anyone actually produce a single scrap of solid evidence. surely that's not to much to ask over the past 250 years - is it? just one single piece of evidence? and here's a hint for you. If you have to argue and warp arguments to try and make data seem like it might be credible - well that's a sign your data point is in fact not credible! It's up to BF "researchers" to provide the proof of existence, and so far the whole boatload of you has produced exactly nothing. While in the mean time, any so called evidence produced, has been quite easily disproven!
Guest Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Crow and slowstepper, Just wondering what your thoughts were on cancer. I mean, its been around since human existence and we've been looking for a cure scientifically for a hundred years maybe. A bunch of scientists taking public funding to do research and nothing. People dying every day from it. So are the scientists taking money to do research any different that people trying to scam some money out of the bigfoot craze? Just saying maybe you should look in the mirror. .....
Guest Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Crow and slowstepper, Just wondering what your thoughts were on cancer. I mean, its been around since human existence and we've been looking for a cure scientifically for a hundred years maybe. A bunch of scientists taking public funding to do research and nothing. People dying every day from it. So are the scientists taking money to do research any different that people trying to scam some money out of the bigfoot craze? Just saying maybe you should look in the mirror. ..... OK so how much money is being spent on scientist taking money to do cancer research, and doing nothing? any source for that information? And I'm sure that may have happened on occasion,. but I can tell you from my personal experience, both the University and funding agencies like the National Science Foundation take fiscal responsibility very seriously. I need to account for every dime, produce yearly and quarterly reports, publish my research etc. Compare my 20 some papers published in peer reviewed journals with the Melbas, and Standings, and Dwyers of the world. To be clear, any costs associated with Bigfoot analyses cannot be put into my research grants. i have to do those tests independently, on my own time, and pay for all of the reagents, equipment, run times, sequencing etc. I currently only charge the real cost for the work - ie I do not get paid for my time, I simply charge exactly what it costs me to get sequence! So shove that up your Bum! A Skeptic donating his time and expertise trying to actually find real evidence of BF! Imagine that! Your post shows me one of 2 things is going on: 1. You have absolutely no idea how legit scientific research works, or 2. You are trying to set up a strawman diversion to take us away from the discussion of bigfoot , and any so called evidence. as for cancer. We know it exists, we see it every day, we photograph it, we remove it, we try and kill it, we study how it replicates, how it spreads through the body, how it manipulates genes, etc etc. So we have reduced the death rate by a gigantic amount, and if we can not cure it, we can slow it down and make the quality of life much better for those afflicted. thats what all that money is going for. ask a cancer survivor if they think that money for research was well spent, as opposed to we should ignore cancer and go after bigfoot! really? A few bigfoot believers have ponied up real dough! Wally for example, and what did he get for his 1/2 million? a bunch of negative data! Bully for him , standing behind his belief with his pocketbook! To bad more true believers are not willing to do the same To make an analogy like this work for Bigfoot, you would have to say - OK there is this disease: called "rabismariliquotius". It kills people every day for the past 200 years, but so far no doctor or researcher on the planet is aware of it, so they blame millions of deaths on other stuff like cancer, or heart desease!
Guest Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 So you are telling me that the government i.e. the American people do not fund grants to researchers, either through congress or publicly funded universities? Betcha every researcher is lining to get that stuff. I dont care if you account for every penny its still publicly funded and there is still no cure for cancer after 100+ years of looking for it. So by Crow's logic we should stop looking because its been too long so there must not actually be a cure. So ill go ask my aunt how she feels about the funding of research into cancer. Oh wait she died 3 weeks ago of pancreatic cancer. You take thousands in grants to do you research but crap all over some guy who cant afford to spend a couple hundred on a DNA test. Sounds kinda hypocritical.
MIB Posted March 5, 2015 Moderator Posted March 5, 2015 Often when a reasonable person abandons the possibility of bigfoot the remaining proponents issue forth that there must be something wrong with the person walking away. Who are you claiming is a reasonable person? You have not walked away. You're still here, still participating in the discussion. If you walked away, I don't think anyone would argue with you, but if you're here arguing the other side of the issue, of course people who know you are wrong are going to argue. I think you probably know this but I'll point it out anyway: it's not about you changing sides, it's about you being wrong. MIB 3
BobbyO Posted March 5, 2015 SSR Team Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) Ring the bell Baby, plus one for the above.. And the reason for it, as per usual, is ego which also translates to a level of arrogance. People aren't good whatsoever at admitting they're wrong. Edited March 5, 2015 by BobbyO 2
Guest Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 So you are telling me that the government i.e. the American people do not fund grants to researchers, either through congress or publicly funded universities? Betcha every researcher is lining to get that stuff. I dont care if you account for every penny its still publicly funded and there is still no cure for cancer after 100+ years of looking for it. So by Crow's logic we should stop looking because its been too long so there must not actually be a cure. So ill go ask my aunt how she feels about the funding of research into cancer. Oh wait she died 3 weeks ago of pancreatic cancer. You take thousands in grants to do you research but crap all over some guy who cant afford to spend a couple hundred on a DNA test. Sounds kinda hypocritical. So first you say : guys taking money and doing nothing. Now your changing that story? now you don't care if its accounted for? which is it? So did you not read my post? or just not understand it? Exactly where did i say gov didn't fund research? in fact I said just the opposite! But your contention was all that money was being shoved into the pockets of do nothing "scientists". My point was that is completely false, and verifiably so. Sorry about your aunt, unfortunatey we are not to the point of curing every cancer. but we have been able to cure a large % of cancer, particularly those we catch early enough! but certainly she would agree with you that all of that money for cancer research was a complete waste! good for her! and good for you! Make sure when you get cancer you tell your doctor you don't want any of the treatments devised by this huge waste of taxpayer money, because it's all BS and a bunch of crook doctors sitting around pocketing money! (BTW My dad just beat lymphoma, thanks to some pretty inovative strategies by one of those crook doctors sitting around getting paid for doing nothing!) I can't believe we are even having this conversation at all - seriously, i can't believe anyone actually has the lack of understanding and tunnel vision that you are displaying here! As for crapping on some guy - really? so all of that time, and the dozens of tests i have done for free over the past several years, thats me crapping on people? Who BTW repaid me by calling my university administrators and trying to get me fired because they did not like the result! Seriously? could you define "hypocritical" for me? because I obviously don't have the same deffinition as you. So exactly what is hypocritical about me donating hundreds of hours, and thousands of dollars out of my own pocket to run these tests for people - Free of charge? how is that hypocritical? as for charging - your damned right I do now! for the actual costs. Because I got sick and tired of people stabbing me in the back for doing them a serious favor! And where are all of these BF research organizations when it comes to funding actual research? hell 10 bucks each would cover the cost of a complete panel. Let me ask you something! y lets say you were approached by someone you know and trust. That person says - Give me 200 dollars , as soon as you do, one month you will become rich and famous, beyond your wildest dreams. You know for a fact that person is telling you the truth! so do you say "sorry I can't scrape up the 200 bucks, and walk away? or would you find a way to scrape together the 200 bucks! Apparently in the Bigfoot "sample" world, almost every one there walks away bitching about the 200 bucks. with noted exceptions like Wally, and Tyler, who do throw up the 200 bucks - and in there case, they don't know for sure ! They gamble on their beliefs, knowing its low % , but the payoff would be huge.
Guest Crowlogic Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) Crow and slowstepper, Just wondering what your thoughts were on cancer. I mean, its been around since human existence and we've been looking for a cure scientifically for a hundred years maybe. A bunch of scientists taking public funding to do research and nothing. People dying every day from it. So are the scientists taking money to do research any different that people trying to scam some money out of the bigfoot craze? Just saying maybe you should look in the mirror. ..... Cancer is quite real. A cure may or may not happen but since it is something that is proven to exist it can't be denied away. I know money goes into cancer research. But I also know there are lots of quack cures floating around. But the quacks that come up that come up with the quack cures never seem to have come up with them from research grant money. They are always from a privateer and they are always outsiders from the mainstream medical profession. Just like bigfoot there are no peer reviewed papers on success rates of quack cures. But there is often a big lament by the quacks that mainstream medicine has ignored and or blackballed their wunder cure from the masses because it's going to undermine the cancer research industry. I do firmly believe that there will be a cure for cancer before there is proof of bigfoot. There is always a certain rap that charlatans use to excuse themselves from scrutiny and opinion. It goes on in bigfoot all the time. The medical quacks rely on desperate customers and the bigfoot quacks rely on gullibility. Who are you claiming is a reasonable person? You have not walked away. You're still here, still participating in the discussion. If you walked away, I don't think anyone would argue with you, but if you're here arguing the other side of the issue, of course people who know you are wrong are going to argue. I think you probably know this but I'll point it out anyway: it's not about you changing sides, it's about you being wrong. MIB You don't understand walking away. I haven't eaten red meat in 10 years but I still go to restaurants where red meat is served. I order other things when there. My interest in this field pertains now to the mechanics of why the field exists for the believers when there is no solid core to the matter and when the gloss is essentially entertainment. Edited March 5, 2015 by Crowlogic
Bonehead74 Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 So you are telling me that the government i.e. the American people do not fund grants to researchers, either through congress or publicly funded universities? Betcha every researcher is lining to get that stuff. I dont care if you account for every penny its still publicly funded and there is still no cure for cancer after 100+ years of looking for it. So by Crow's logic we should stop looking because its been too long so there must not actually be a cure. So ill go ask my aunt how she feels about the funding of research into cancer. Oh wait she died 3 weeks ago of pancreatic cancer. You take thousands in grants to do you research but crap all over some guy who cant afford to spend a couple hundred on a DNA test. Sounds kinda hypocritical.
Guest Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 I've run several dozen guarantted to be BF samples - hair, scat, snot, for DNA - and i get Human, .... Are we relying on "markers" to determine this? Or was it the kind of analysis where you could have told me the ethnic origin of human concerned at least. Or imagine an isolated country where the only known dog is a Chihuahua, and a pair of Great Danes got shipwrecked there, and are sighted from time to time, DNA comes back "normal canine" ...
Guest Posted March 6, 2015 Posted March 6, 2015 Slowstepper, Please dont think im some kind of whackjob who is against cancer research. I thank you for what you do and think we need more of it. I was simply trying to point out that if you were to use Crows logic, because we have not found a cure for cancer we should stop looking. That goes against everything that science stands for whether it involves cancer or bigfoot. I guess I was not very clear when talking about the public funding of research. What I was trying to say was that everyone thats out in the field looking for bigfoot funds everything they do themselves. So what does it matter if people want to go out and do their form of research. What frustrates me the most about this website is that while im interested in this subject, as well as hundreds of others, we continuously have to wade through people that are not here to provide an opposing viewpoint but just want to tell us how wrong we are. Using the same analogy it would be like me going to a website that doctors utilize to research cancer and waste their time arguing that they'll never find a cure. Why cant you be constructive and maybe offer advise to us amateur researchers on some scientific methods for field work, like dna sample collection, rather than coming on here and leaving the impression that your college educated intellect is much greater than us hillbillies
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