Ape Canyon -- Did They Shoot One?

[clownboy]

MArc, the caption on your newspaper photo says, "Wild Apes are reputed  to have played pranks." Since that remark was made immediatly after the events, it makes me wonder how much of that story has been embelished after many many retellings over generations. Kinda like the 3 lb trout your grandpa caught when he was a kid. By the time he tells his Great grandchildren it's grown to 13 lb and took him four hours to land. I dont know but "Pranks" sure wouldn't be the word I'd use to describe what the modern story relates happened.

[MarcMyrsell]

Hi Clownboy,

And thanks for the question. There has been a pervasive "chat" about Beck's re-telling of the incident. Beck's interviews and 1967 book has been the source of much of the "rehashed" accounts that we'll find in many, many books. The "talk" has been of many discrepancies in Beck's story. However, I have found in comparing them with the many published accounts; which included interviews with all 5 miners, that the discrepancies were slight (as in this topic, was the "cliff" shot on Friday morning or Thursday afternoon). For the most part, the versions, at different times has been highly congruent with one another and have not changed much from what was published in 1924.

There have been some problems. As Beck told Byrne, around 1961 or so that the entrance to the mine was through a trap door directly beneath the cabin. While visiting reporters to the site in '24 clearly noted the mine location as being "below and to the right of the cabin" I have no idea why Beck told Peter this.

The "prank" notation with the headline is facinating. I found it interesting how, much like today, society was very, very quick to arrive at "explain it away" theories as to the incident. They were spiritualists, they were drunk, the YMCA boys did it, the Indians did it, etc. etc. I've explored most of this. However, one thing that was well noted in the '24 reports is that the miners, Beck and Smith, the elder, in particular had sterling reputations in their community. When they said that something happened, you could bank on it. So, for those who knew them, it was a problem that such "straight" guys were coming off the mountain with such a fantastic story.

 

The two things that get me the most about the story are these. There has been a "deathbed confession" rumor with this story that one miner confessed as to this all being a prank. I have never found a source for this or found any lead to a source on this. I think this "confession" to be fictional. Maybe I'll find it later. But, most impotantly, two. A second, and only, document was filed in the mining record, related to the Venderwhite Mine. It was the "Proof of Labor" record, filed by Beck, witnessed by Smith. After working the mine for two years and after building a pretty strong cabin 6-8 weeks before, they noted that all work was completed July 10, 1924. They had a good 3-4 more months of good weather left for working the mine. But they were done. Thursday, July 10th was the purported night of the attack.

Gene W. has been somewhat of a guru for me in this project. In his 85 years, Gene has done some incredible stuff in his life. He's not a "bigfoot dude" or a "paranormal wierdo". He's an inventor, a scientist, a researcher. He's a very level guy. So, I report in to Gene once in a while. When I told him about the proof of labor note, Gene said, "SOMETHING sure MUST of scared them up there".

 

Golly, you guys have good questions,

 

Marc

[jayjeti]

MarcMyrsell,

 

This is the common picture associated with articles about the ape canyon cabin.

 

Beck's rifle was chambered in .30-30 Winchester per his own account.

 

Here's a photo of Beck holding the rifle he used.  Looks like a winchester.

 

 

http://www.bigfoot-lives.com/html/ape_canyon.html

Edited May 5, 2015 by jayjeti

[BigTreeWalker]

That is the cabin from the reenactment video. The original didn't have any windows.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j_ApVmKwLrM

SweetSusiq, The pictures I have seen show Fred Beck holding a Model 94 Winchester rifle and Roy Smith holding a Remington Model 8 semi-auto. The largest cartridges you could get in those rifles were .32 Special for the Winchester and .35 Remington for the other. Neither of which is very powerful by today's standards. It sounded like to me they shot a lot of rounds by their account.

Maybe Marc will answer your questions about the cabin.

And yes it was a .30-30 according to their account.

Edited May 5, 2015 by BigTreeWalker

[Guest ChasingRabbits]

Hi Clownboy,

And thanks for the question. There has been a pervasive "chat" about Beck's re-telling of the incident. Beck's interviews and 1967 book has been the source of much of the "rehashed" accounts that we'll find in many, many books. The "talk" has been of many discrepancies in Beck's story. However, I have found in comparing them with the many published accounts; which included interviews with all 5 miners, that the discrepancies were slight (as in this topic, was the "cliff" shot on Friday morning or Thursday afternoon). For the most part, the versions, at different times has been highly congruent with one another and have not changed much from what was published in 1924.

There have been some problems. As Beck told Byrne, around 1961 or so that the entrance to the mine was through a trap door directly beneath the cabin. While visiting reporters to the site in '24 clearly noted the mine location as being "below and to the right of the cabin" I have no idea why Beck told Peter this.

The "prank" notation with the headline is facinating. I found it interesting how, much like today, society was very, very quick to arrive at "explain it away" theories as to the incident. They were spiritualists, they were drunk, the YMCA boys did it, the Indians did it, etc. etc. I've explored most of this. However, one thing that was well noted in the '24 reports is that the miners, Beck and Smith, the elder, in particular had sterling reputations in their community. When they said that something happened, you could bank on it. So, for those who knew them, it was a problem that such "straight" guys were coming off the mountain with such a fantastic story.

 

The two things that get me the most about the story are these. There has been a "deathbed confession" rumor with this story that one miner confessed as to this all being a prank. I have never found a source for this or found any lead to a source on this. I think this "confession" to be fictional. Maybe I'll find it later. But, most impotantly, two. A second, and only, document was filed in the mining record, related to the Venderwhite Mine. It was the "Proof of Labor" record, filed by Beck, witnessed by Smith. After working the mine for two years and after building a pretty strong cabin 6-8 weeks before, they noted that all work was completed July 10, 1924. They had a good 3-4 more months of good weather left for working the mine. But they were done. Thursday, July 10th was the purported night of the attack.

Gene W. has been somewhat of a guru for me in this project. In his 85 years, Gene has done some incredible stuff in his life. He's not a "bigfoot dude" or a "paranormal wierdo". He's an inventor, a scientist, a researcher. He's a very level guy. So, I report in to Gene once in a while. When I told him about the proof of labor note, Gene said, "SOMETHING sure MUST of scared them up there".

 

Golly, you guys have good questions,

 

Marc

 

Sorry if this was asked before. Regarding the pre-adolescent/adolescent campers throwing stones onto the cabin from a higher elevation, is that a reasonable supposition? Is there a ledge above the cabin that would have been accessible to these teens? By accessible i mean would the teens have been able to ascend and descend this elevation in the dark (or near darkness)?

 

I agree with you about them abandoning their claim. I hang around rockhounds-----nothing stops them from collecting specimens to add to their collections or to sell. If collectors/hobbyists are driven to that degree to collect a few pounds of quartz or a few grams of opals, I can only imagine miners have a more drive and more determination.

[TD-40]

Arched roof? Part of Beck's report included something climbing on the roof. I don't know how that could have happened with the above picture of the arched roof.

[Guest possessed]

Sorry, misread the part about falling over cliff after it was shot.

[BigTreeWalker]

This is a quote from Wikipedia:

"William Halliday, director of the Western Speleological Survey, claimed in his 1983 pamphlet Ape Cave and the Mount Saint Helens Apes that the miner's assailants were actually local youths. Until the eruption of Mt. St. Helens, counselors from the YMCA's Camp Meehan on nearby Spirit Lake brought hikers to the canyon's edge and related a tradition that the 1924 incident was actually the result of young campers throwing light pumice stones into the canyon, not realizing there were miners at the bottom. Looking up, the miners would have only seen dark moonlit figures throwing stones at their cabin. The narrow walls of the canyon would have served to distort the voices of the YMCA campers enough to frighten the men below."

Marc, can verify this, but I do know the cabin was not in the bottom of the canyon. I've been to the place that they are referring to at the head of the canyon. It is straight down and very narrow, 40ft or so wide and 100's of feet deep. The cabin was not in the canyon, but rather in the head of the valley beside the canyon. All that is down there is a creek that fills the canyon at full flood. The miners definitely didn't shoot any kids from the YMCA camp.

[MarcMyrsell]

BigTreeWalker has it all right. On the Y Boys and the cabin.

 

The color cabin photo is from the famed 1977 production "Sasquatch, The Lengend of Bigoot", the movie that, in part inspired me on this project and that had the famed re-creation of the 1924 incident.

 

On the "youth" issue. A small point of confusion, and a very, very small point of fact. Some chat and, perhaps some NFS publication note that the Boy Scouts performed the attack. I think that they meant to say that the YMCA Boys camp did it. Harry Reese, of Cougar was a retired local logger and ran a grocery store, "Reese's Store" (the building still stands on Lewis River Road). Harry was the Boy Scout leader in the 1950's and the troupe named themselves the "St. Helen's Apes", after the 1924 incident. Having known Ole Peterson and just the hills in general, Harry knew a lot about the lava tubes in the area and made it a focal point of his troupe, giving the name to Ape Cave.

 

However, this Boy Scout troupe had nothing to do with the attack in 1924.

 

The origin of the youths being the rock throwers, came from a letter to the editor in the Oregonian, July 22, 1924. It was written by the father of one of the YMCA boys. His son had confessed to the incident. The young man and a couple of his buddies "stumbled" on to the miners cabin. The miners, quite perturbed, ran them off with threats and rifle brandishing. The boys returned that night and threw rocks at the cabin. The rest is history.

 

Here's what I found.

 

The YMCA boys camp at Spirit Lake held an annual hike up to Pummice Butte every year. The hike from the lake to the butte is about 6-7 miles. They do the hike, camp at the base of the butte. The next morning they pack up and head back to the lake.

 

Please put yourself in to the seat of the average news reader in 1924. Longview was not and, by no means, Portland not a small, podunk town. It was easy to get hot news. Nonetheless, small reports were published regularly of, seemingly, banal events. Like, "Mr. and Mrs. so and so returned from Coos Bay yesterday. The roads were reported to be good and a fine time was had by all". This was not an uncommon type of article. By chance, while researching this, I found an article July 13, 1924, The Oregonian. "YMCA Boys Stage Hike". It noted that about 70 hikers made the trip from the lake to the butte on Wednesday, July 9th. They spent the night and returned the next day, Thursday, July 10th. This article was buried on quite a remote page on the back of the Sunday edition.

 

The night of Thursday, July 10 was the night of the attack.

 

My point is that, if these young guys did pull this off, they would have had to sneak out of camp after bed check, hike the return 7 miles to Pummice Butte, go up and over the butte, throw rocks for 5-6 hours, while dodging bullets from miners, return to camp, all this without getting caught as missing. I know that this is argumentative. But I find it unlikely, given the article of the 13th at verification that they returned to camp Thursday, during the day.

 

My last thing that I like to think about is this. If in fact, the YMCA boys did it, the REAL NEWS of the day would have been that 5 miners were arrested for taking pot shots at unarmed campers. Instead, we got the news of Mountain Devils, that make up the Ape Canyon incident of 1924.

 

Marc

[Explorer]

In the attached link,  David Donlon provides an interesting analysis on the Ape Canyon tale (written back in 2007).

 

http://dapht.blogspot.com/2007/10/incredible-tales-trouble-with-ape-canyon.html

 

Although, I believe that Marc Myrsell has taken the analysis to a much higher level and depth. 

 

I am looking forward for Marc's DVD or book to come out to get the in depth story and analysis.

[Guest ksu4]

I miss the Blogsquatcher blog. I always enjoyed his take on things.

[TD-40]

Ok somebody needs to explain the gumption it would take for YMCA youth to sustain gun shots throughout an entire night and all the heavy footsteps surrounding the cabin that obviously didn't come from 135 lb kids.

 

This story seems to have morphed into something else and taken on a life of its own just like so many other stores that could be true but end up perverted with some other explanation that doesn't fit the facts.

[jayjeti]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=j_ApVmKwLrM

And yes it was a .30-30 according to their account.

 

Thanks BigTreeWalker, I see now the photo most commonly used for the cabin in articles is from a movie, and it's not the cabin.

[Guest ChasingRabbits]

Marc Myrsell, thanks for the info about the Attack of the Teens story.

[Bonehead74]

In the attached link, David Donlon provides an interesting analysis on the Ape Canyon tale (written back in 2007). http://dapht.blogspot.com/2007/10/incredible-tales-trouble-with-ape-canyon.html Although, I believe that Marc Myrsell has taken the analysis to a much higher level and depth. I am looking forward for Marc's DVD or book to come out to get the in depth story and analysis.

Thanks, Explorer, for posting that link. I've been meaning to put it up but never got around to it.

Mr. Donlon raises some good questions. Although it's a long read, I hope folks give it a chance. Marc's take on it would be interesting to hear.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Bonehead74