Cascades Carnivore Project - How Do They Miss The Bigfoots?

[Guest TooRisky]

Hmm why does it always come back around to giganto-blackie,,, a extinct species... which has not one thing in common the the known North American Sasquatch... Ignorance has to be the case... That and the fact that most that say this are computer researchers.... correlation, I say yes...

[gigantor]

Toorisky,

No need for name-calling. I guess Dr Krantz, Meldrum, etc don't know what they're talking about. BTW, I do get out from time to time.

Would you care to illuminate us with your hypothesis of what a BF is?

Edited May 4, 2011 by gigantor

[Guest BlurryMonster]

I think the Bigfoot population is becoming bolder, though. I cite problem bears as evidence. Why are healthy bears rummaging in garbage so much lately? There is ample food in the woods. Unless the woods aren't safe for bears any more. If bear eating predators move in to my nieghbourhood and I'm a bear, I might go elsewhere. I might go someplace the predators avoid.

Bears are like any other animal; they go where the food is the easiest to get. Why would you go through the trouble of killing something or rummaging through brush for stuff to eat when you can just get it out of someone's trash? People do the same thing (how many eat exclusively from stores as opposed to people that hunt?). It isn't that hard to figure out why any animal would start hanging around humans and scavenging food from us. Jumping to fear of bigfoot being the cause is a huge stretch.

Note: I deliberately avoided the conspiracy stuff in the post I quoted; I don't feel like opening a can of worms that big or derailing this thread, and I doubt anyone would listen to me anyway.

In general response to this thread: the fact that wolverines have been captured on gamecams is huge. I didn't even know there were still any in this state (I guess I wasn't that far off if there's only one), but seeing that an image of one can be captured looks like a huge case again the "they're so rare" excuse. Cameras can capture an animal as rare as having a population of one. I can't recall any stories about wolverine sightings here, but people see bigfoot all the time and there are no captured images. That just doesn't add up.

[kitakaze]

A few hundred square feet total of game cam coverage in tens of THOUSANDS of square MILES of habitiat does not a foolproof photo setup make.

The GP Task Force and Cascades Carnivore Project have 42 camera stations strategically placed throughout the Gifford Pinchot National Forest which have been there since 2008. They could locate a single wolverine they named Wildy living on Mt. Adams. They have researchers on the ground scouring for signs of mammal activity. Of the nine carnivore species surveyed, the average latency to first detection was 13.7 days. That's the time elapsed between setup of survey stations and first detection of a mammal species. 42 cameras in the best possible habitat for wildlife since 2008 and not a shred of evidence for Bigfoot. Bigfoot has to eat just like any other species, so why aren't they being detected when all other large predators are being detected, right down to one lone wandering wolverine?

I think it's quite safe to say that since 2008, there have been no Bigfoots in the vicinity of Mt. Adams, Mt. St. Helens, Indian Heaven, and the Goat Rock Wilderness - the main CCP and GF Task Force monitoring areas.

A "suburban" area directly associated with wild lands.

From the investigator's report:

Bears dumpster dive, racoons do too. So do dogs, cats, etc. Why not BF?

Why can't Bigfoots dumpster dive? By all means they should. However, suggesting that we seriously have Bigfoots dumpster diving in North America and remaining an uncatalogued species is an absurdity no less ridiculous than Bigfoots popping in and out of our dimension. The argument for why no Bigfoots show up on GPNF monitoring stations is that they would recognize the stations as somehow a threat to them and leave the food and stay well away from them. Yet you are at the same time supporting the reports of Bigfoots coming right smack into the middle of human civilization and getting into our garbage.

The picture below is from the dumpster diving Bigfoot report in Illinois...

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=28568

You may be thinking no problem, there's some handy woods access. Wrong. Check the Google map of the area...

http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&biw=1276&bih=627&q=e%20myrtle%20st%20fulton%20illinois&wrapid=tlif130448080618411&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl

That alleged sighting of a Bigfoot hitting a dumpster is 7 blocks from Memorial Stadium in the city of Canton, Ohio. Try zooming out. The notion that an undiscovered species of giant bipedal ape would be that far into human civilization is utterly gonzo.

[gigantor]

Bigfoot has to eat just like any other species, so why aren't they being detected when all other large predators are being detected, right down to one lone wandering wolverine?

Maybe they are not carnivores, animals which are the target of the study, they are using meat as bait.

The tooth wear pattern of Gigantopithecus blacki suggests it was an eclectic omnivore like chimpanzees.

Diet

The jaws of Gigantopithecus are deep and very thick. The molars are low crowned and flat and exhibit heavy enamel suitable for tough grinding.^[10] The premolars are broad and flat and configured similarly to the molars. The canine teeth are neither pointed nor sharp, while the incisors are small, peglike and closely aligned. The features of teeth and jaws suggested that the animal was adapted to chewing tough, fibrous food by cutting, crushing and grinding it. Gigantopithecus teeth also have a large number of cavities, similar to those found in giant pandas, whose diet, which includes a large amount of bamboo, may be similar to that of Gigantopithecus.^[11]

In addition to bamboo, Gigantopithecus consumed other vegetable foods, as suggested by the analysis of the phytoliths adhering to its teeth. An examination of the microscopic scratches and gritty plant remains embedded in Gigantopithecus teeth suggests that they ingested seeds and fruit as well as bamboo.^[12]

Edited May 4, 2011 by gigantor

[kitakaze]

I'll just repost this one.

Just to add..Kit, since you believe that 100% of reported sightings are bogus, then you can't use dumpster diving BF in your argument. You are using a false premise that all sightings were legit. IMO, the only scenario that would keep BF away from game cams is that most sightings must not be true. And if only a tiny % of all sightings were the real deal, then their low numbers and the vastness of their habitat are the answer. Refute that.

Nonsense. I most certainly can use reports I don't believe in to invalidate illogical notions about Bigfoot. The vastness/remoteness argument about Bigfoot is hooey. It's not the way Bigfoot is reported. And if most sightings not being true is the only scenario for you that keeps Bigfoot away from game cams, then I think you would thereby acknowledge that at least since 2008 we can reasonably conclude that there are no Bigfoots in the Mt. Adams, Mt. St. Helens, Indian Heaven, and Goat Rocks Wilderness areas.

If you are going to determine which Bigfoot reports are true and which are not, I'd love to see if you can improve on the BFRO's method of determining what is legitimately a valid Bigfoot report and what is not. According to BFRO investigators, the end of E Myrtle St an Canton, Illinois and the King County nursing home in Washington are Bigfoot territory.

[kitakaze]

Maybe they are not carnivores, animals which are the target of the study, they are using meat as bait.

It does not matter, because the forest monitoring efforts are documenting all the large mammals in the area, including the ones that don't eat meat...

And do you dismiss all the reports of Bigfoot sucking down deer livers, raccoons, marmots, fish, throwing pigs, horses, cows, etc?

[kitakaze]

In general response to this thread: the fact that wolverines have been captured on gamecams is huge. I didn't even know there were still any in this state (I guess I wasn't that far off if there's only one), but seeing that an image of one can be captured looks like a huge case again the "they're so rare" excuse. Cameras can capture an animal as rare as having a population of one. I can't recall any stories about wolverine sightings here, but people see bigfoot all the time and there are no captured images. That just doesn't add up.

His name is Wildy, Mt. Adams is his turf, and he's a dude...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_ABF3PIVkKQE/S4Ro7m-qTYI/AAAAAAAAAmg/DmQVV96xqLc/s1600-h/Nam+GULO.jpg

They got eight hair samples from him. His movements are documented in the Forest Carnivore Monitoring on the Gifford Pinchot National Forest: Year 1 and 2 Progress Report that you can have a look at here...

http://cascadescarnivoreproject.blogspot.com/2010_03_01_archive.html

He's a star for the conservation efforts of the GP Task Force and the CCP. Imagine if they had video like this that was real...

[BobbyO]

He's a star for the conservation efforts of the GP Task Force and the CCP. Imagine if they had video like this that was real...

What do you mean by " real " ??

You're not insinuating that the subject of that Video isn't " real " are you ??

[kitakaze]

As in imagine if they had a video that was really of Bigfoot and not one that is fake. That is a fake Bigfoot video in that it purports to show Bigfoot, but it really just shows a chimp.

[BobbyO]

As in imagine if they had a video that was really of Bigfoot and not one that is fake. That is a fake Bigfoot video in that it purports to show Bigfoot, but it really just shows a chimp.

Not really, i actually am extremely cool with the fact that people like you don't know that this Animal exists, & others do.

It gives me a great deal of satisfaction too..

It really IS your loss & i strongly believe that even though you'd never admit it, it REALLY burns you inside, the not actually knowing for sure yet others do..

Edit : For Sausage Fingers.

Edited May 4, 2011 by BobbyO

[Guest]

The subject of that video IS real. As in a real chimp named Oliver.

[Guest]

Just wanted to chime in really quick...I have absolutely no interest in arguing with, or convincing naysayers that they're real, because it doesn't matter. They're real! End of story! I was a skeptic until 3 years ago, and now I know for an undeniable FACT that they are a real, living animal. You've gotta see it to believe it! That's all I can really say.

The camera trap question baffles me, too, though. It could just be as simple as the vast amount of land vs. the small population of BF's, and it just hasn't happened yet, but both of my encounters were in the GPNF. My first one was with a group of hunting buddies, where we never saw anything, but heard a group of 3 knocking, whooping, and 'chattering' for almost five minutes, and footprints were found the next day in the timber where we heard them, and the other was when I actually saw one...It was right below the Goat Rocks Wilderness. We drove up to a tree fall across the road, and I got out to guide my hunting buddy, so he could turn around, because there was a drop off into the river below us, and up above us about 50 yards I saw a 'weird' looking stump. We glassed it for a couple of minutes, and it looked odd, but didn't really definitively look like a squatch, then all of a sudden the stump stood up, and walked up the hill, and disappeared into the timber.

Kit....With 2000+ posts, you obviously have to have some sort of interest in Squatches. Keep putting yourself out there!

[Guest]

I see game, set, and match to Kitakaze in this thread. The only explanation for the lack of bigfoots documented via this project is that there haven't been any bigfoots in the project area since 2008.

[BobbyO]

I see game, set, and match to Kitakaze in this thread. The only explanation for the lack of bigfoots documented via this project is that there haven't been any bigfoots in the project area since 2008.

Well there wasn't a moment that i thought that you'd think anything else but that,, but yeah i agree, for sure, yeah, whatever you two say, yeah, game set & match, yeah..

Edited May 4, 2011 by BobbyO