Cascades Carnivore Project - How Do They Miss The Bigfoots?

[ohiobill]

Documented? Confirming? Confirmed? Liars?

 

All anyone from NAWAC has to do to conclusively prove to all that they have the goods is to produce some scat, DNA or a body. Just one hair plucked from a large mature tree brought down by a wood ape will do. Blood from a wounded wood ape will more than suffice. A simple pile of feces collected from the forest people's refuge will put any doubt away.

 

Tales from the Ten Acre Corral won't do it...  

[Guest DWA]

I don't think that anyone being asked the question, out of the blue, OK, what would one expect a sane person to do to fake something? would come up with NAWAC.

 

For those who need a body...well, some of us have found out common sense is a whole lot better.

Just read.  What is the most likely thing, by far, to be producing all this?

 

Right.

 

What is.

[ohiobill]

The most probable answer a "sane" person could come up with might be incompetent researchers misinterpreting natural events. I'm sure that NAWAC has the goods if their stories are true. They can simply collect some scat from the multitude of wood apes finding refuge on their 10 acre plot or pluck a hair from a large tree after they watch a wood ape ride it to the ground or collect some blood samples from a wounded wood ape after they throw a bunch of lead down range and scare off the owner's relatives. Easy peasy lemon squeezy! Simple, common sense. What are they waiting on?

Edited March 19, 2015 by ohiobill

[Guest DWA]

The most probable answer a "sane" person could come up with might be incompetent researchers misinterpreting natural events.

 

Not true.  Not to someone practicing common sense.  Which requires *being informed* as to what is being experienced, and the *likelihood* of misinterpretation given what is before one.  Bigfoot skeptics - I have found, and expect to find, no exceptions - have shut themselves up in a box of tightly-fitted black-painted plywood with their preconceptions.  They don't read, or think about what they read (because they didn't read it).  Given their preconception - *this cannot be true!* - sure, *anything that makes it true cannot be.*  Those of us paying attention - and haven't we gone over what that means, over and over and over here - don't have this problem.  It might be obvious that Great Britain must overthrow its fascist dictator, Adolf Hitler...if one has shut oneself up in a box with the preconception that Hitler rules Great Britain.  Doesn't make the conclusion common sense, hmmmm?  There is no way that incompetent researchers are misinterpreting natural events.  I know these people personally; I know what they bring to the table; I know what the rest of the evidence says, and you don't; and it's about as likely that they are routinely misinterpreting natural events as it is that you are hiding Saddam Hussein.  That conclusion, given facts on the ground, is flat irrational in the universe we inhabit, the diff between us being that, having the information base you and most other people have forbidden yourselves - *I know that.*

 

I'm sure that NAWAC has the goods if their stories are true. They can simply collect some scat from the multitude of wood apes finding refuge on their 10 acre plot or pluck a hair from a large tree after they watch a wood ape ride it to the ground or collect some blood samples from a wounded wood ape after they throw a bunch of lead down range and scare off the owner's relatives. Easy peasy lemon squeezy! Simple, common sense. What are they waiting on?

 

Common sense.  Which tells them, because they have tried it, see you aren't reading are you?  that those things don't yield results.  And a body will.

 

But see, no need to feel bad about this.  I'm just at the cutting edge of this science, which it is easy to be, right now, because most other people were told by their mommies and daddies to choose the plywood box, and some of us just opted out, preferring an open mind.  This is routine in science; any number of things have any number of really regular Joes working on them, at any given moment, that most people are simply unaware of.  You have simply accidentally stumbled upon one.  I, on the other hand, am not here by accident.

Edited March 20, 2015 by DWA

[Guest Crowlogic]

Proof consists of a body and or a significant enough part of a body where measurements can be taken to establish size and locomotion and of course DNA.  All of the foot casts, thermal blobs, video snippets are not proof.  It is only a gloss  open to interpretation.

[Guest DWA]

From inside that box, yes.  Opening oneself to what's out there, however, one sees the extreme unlikelihood of any of the alternate explanations being anything close to correct.  Each one fails the most basic "does the world work this way?" test.

[ohiobill]

 

The most probable answer a "sane" person could come up with might be incompetent researchers misinterpreting natural events.

 

Not true.  Not to someone practicing common sense.  Which requires *being informed* as to what is being experienced, and the *likelihood* of misinterpretation given what is before one.  Bigfoot skeptics - I have found, and expect to find, no exceptions - have shut themselves up in a box of tightly-fitted black-painted plywood with their preconceptions.  They don't read, or think about what they read (because they didn't read it).  Given their preconception - *this cannot be true!* - sure, *anything that makes it true cannot be.*  Those of us paying attention - and haven't we gone over what that means, over and over and over here - don't have this problem.  It might be obvious that Great Britain must overthrow its fascist dictator, Adolf Hitler...if one has shut oneself up in a box with the preconception that Hitler rules Great Britain.  Doesn't make the conclusion common sense, hmmmm?  There is no way that incompetent researchers are misinterpreting natural events.  I know these people personally; I know what they bring to the table; I know what the rest of the evidence says, and you don't; and it's about as likely that they are routinely misinterpreting natural events as it is that you are hiding Saddam Hussein.  That conclusion, given facts on the ground, is flat irrational in the universe we inhabit, the diff between us being that, having the information base you and most other people have forbidden yourselves - *I know that.*

 

I'm sure that NAWAC has the goods if their stories are true. They can simply collect some scat from the multitude of wood apes finding refuge on their 10 acre plot or pluck a hair from a large tree after they watch a wood ape ride it to the ground or collect some blood samples from a wounded wood ape after they throw a bunch of lead down range and scare off the owner's relatives. Easy peasy lemon squeezy! Simple, common sense. What are they waiting on?

 

Common sense.  Which tells them, because they have tried it, see you aren't reading are you?  that those things don't yield results.  And a body will.

 

But see, no need to feel bad about this.  I'm just at the cutting edge of this science, which it is easy to be, right now, because most other people were told by their mommies and daddies to choose the plywood box, and some of us just opted out, preferring an open mind.  This is routine in science; any number of things have any number of really regular Joes working on them, at any given moment, that most people are simply unaware of.  You have simply accidentally stumbled upon one.  I, on the other hand, am not here by accident.

 

Donn, stories are stories, just that and nothing more. Stories about lost samples are just stories as well. You could insert any cryptid into the monograph and end up with an equally unscientific treatment of the subject. If elves or faeries work equally well then something is wrong starting with the hypothesis. I know you don't get it and probably never will but there is nothing to the monograph. Many works of fiction are just as well written and even longer, being well written and long doesn't make the stories inside true. 

 

Look past what can't be proven and look for something real...where is the scat from the multitude of animals living on the 10 acre property? Real apes produce scat, it's easily found, easily collected and contains DNA. Rely less on FAQ's and more on facts. Push for less pointless publishing and more poop! Earmark your donations for scoop shovels or gloves and paper bags.  

 

When you talk to folks who go on the "expeditions" point out that if they have time to observe wood apes climbing trees and throwing rocks at them (w/o pockets btw which begs the question of where are the rocks are being carried?) they have time to film or shoot the wood apes. Ask where the body is, ask what direction the ape went, ask how far they tracked it and what they found.

 

Your cutting edge of science is more like a dull forgotten spoon in a bowl of overblown soup made up of stories that science turned away from in the 1800's. The bottom line is that NAWAC hasn't produced proof in the 10 plus years they've been investigating the area. They can't even find poop!

 

Here is a way to contrast NAWAC with other researchers...answer these questions if you want to get down to brass tacks. Can scientists study gorilla poo? Can they collect it in Africa from remote tropical jungles and get answers? Can NAWAC find some on the 10 acre property with a road and buildings they've been studying for over 10 years? 

 

Come out of the NAWAC closet Donn, there's a whole wide world filled with real science that will astound you. Simple things that NAWAC won't even attempt like video or DNA from scat and even tools or rocks are old news out here. Patterson was able to use film in the 60's, today science is filling in family trees on wild gorillas from scat. NAWAC is still telling stories. 

[Guest DWA]

I am not sure I could begin to list all the unfounded assumptions in that post.  But I could say, in most other scientific areas, one would have to come up with the evidence for one's point of view instead of stating assumptions and gossamer weavings as fact knowing that most people aren't any more read up (and I must add, thought up; the intellectual work is the true heavy sledding here) and will agree.

 

Not to worry, though.  It is rare for people without a science degree to be at the very bleeding edge of science, and it is something I am quite enjoying, and if you aren't where I am...well I am not sure I'd be wasting my time here, were I you.

Edited March 20, 2015 by DWA

[Faenor]

I read through that nawac monograph. A whole lot of nothing. They should start it by saying 200 pages of stories but no real evidence. Lots of rock pictures if your into geology maybe but no pictures of whatever threw the rocks. If this was real science and real scientists they would have gotten to the bottom of the cameras on=no bigfoot cameras off=bigfoot. Rather than deciding to just leave the cameras off to continue playing military/scientist/monster hunter.

[WSA]

i.e. , Mr. Monet, I don't see it.

[WSA]

And Mssr/Mdme Faenor, please enlighten me (and probably all member of the NAWAC to boot) how does a "real" scientist go about getting to the "bottom" of the camera question?  I'm sure we'd all like to know that (and I'm sure they'd also appreciate any monetary contributions you'd be prepared to make to help them in that as well). Next, I'm sure we'd also like to know what they should do if that answer is not reasonably ascertainable. (Just go home?) Thirdly, I certainly would appreciate some insight into how the failure to answer that question negates all the rest of their account and renders all their evidence unreal, in your estimation.   

[norseman]

Who is claiming that area X is ten acres and all wood apes reside on said acreage?

[Guest DWA]

I read through that nawac monograph. A whole lot of nothing. They should start it by saying 200 pages of stories but no real evidence. Lots of rock pictures if your into geology maybe but no pictures of whatever threw the rocks. If this was real science and real scientists they would have gotten to the bottom of the cameras on=no bigfoot cameras off=bigfoot. Rather than deciding to just leave the cameras off to continue playing military/scientist/monster hunter.

Another bigfoot-skeptic quote.  I just parsed it and not only a whole lot of nothing, but a whole lot of nothing that's been conclusively rejected who knows how many hundred times here.

 

Do you guys/gals read any posts that disagree with you?  No, I said *read* them?

 

There's intellectual work to be done, which the quoted post shows, um...still needs to be done by too many.

And Mssr/Mdme Faenor, please enlighten me (and probably all member of the NAWAC to boot) how does a "real" scientist go about getting to the "bottom" of the camera question?  I'm sure we'd all like to know that (and I'm sure they'd also appreciate any monetary contributions you'd be prepared to make to help them in that as well). Next, I'm sure we'd also like to know what they should do if that answer is not reasonably ascertainable. (Just go home?) Thirdly, I certainly would appreciate some insight into how the failure to answer that question negates all the rest of their account and renders all their evidence unreal, in your estimation.   

Just so you know...WSA is not really waiting for answers he and I know he will not get.

 

I have always considered it amusing how the people here doing the most blowharding about 'real' science and 'real' scientists repeatedly show how little they understand either.

[Faenor]

The first assumption should be whoever, most likely a human, is throwing the rocks and banging around knows when the cameras are on or off. Do variations on the camera times and locations without telling everyone else or bring someone from outside to place hidden camera traps. If this fails try other camera systems either simpler or more complex. The nawac is a large group no one can think outside the box to out wit an ape that is regularly beating on trees and close enough to hit the cabin with rocks. They know right where the wood apes will be. It's very odd that just a camera not a group of people in a cabin with all there supplies, guns, and refuse they bring along would be the deterrent.

None of this was done and the conclusion was the wood apes must have infrared vision or infra sound, or smell or hear the camera, alpha coyotes yaba yada yada. What I read on another forum, I'm not sure this information is correct, is that an internal vote decided against further game trail use.

Even if you believe that nawac is really seeing and hearing wood apes regularly the game cam story smells fishy.

[Guest DWA]

Now see, anyone who read this knows that humans are in no way doing this.  To make that one's *first assumption* indicates the degree to which one hasn't thought about it.