Why Would Proponents Waste Their Time Believing?

[Guest Divergent1]

If I want to talk about the tooth fairy I ought to be able to do that:

 

1. Teeth were removed from under my pillow as a child.

2.  Someone or something left me money under my pillow in exchange.

 

I believe the tooth fairy exists because I have evidence of my personal experience to base that belief, now why should anyone else care what I believe in?

[TD-40]

I don't understand why people say Santa Claus isn't real. You've seen him a hundred times...

[Guest Crowlogic]

For all of the posters that say that the old hoaxes no longer bear weight I offer a question.  What bigfoot event that has been a major news event has been rated as a genuine bigfoot?  It's one thing to say hoaxes have hurt the community but why do the hoaxes grab the spotlight?  They grab the spotlight because they seem to have at first blush a sensational find.  Where are the 2012 sensational finds?  Or the 2013, 2014, 2015 sensational finds?  Unless I miss my guess there are no knock it out of the ballpark evidences that can truly stand up to the hoaxes sad to say.  It appears that if you want to make a media event in bigfoot world create a hoax.  Where outside of the bigfoot world can any of the so called evidence enough for proof get any traction?  Until there is another PGF or class A tissue analysis the hoaxes are what is leading the charge which does nothing for anybody.

[Old Dog]

^ Sensationalism is just another term for marketing.  Actual discoveries are often overshadowed by the sensationalistic huckster.  Just take the daily news for example.  No one pays attention unless it is sensational, that is the mindset of the public these days.  Too many people these days need drama in their lives, and being a troll or a hoaxer in the field of cryptids is how they get it, sad to say.  I agree Crowlogic, little will be advanced as far as Sasquatch is concerned until there is hardcore evidence of the creature.  My stance is that maybe we shouldn't just blow off the small tidbits of information and evidence as being a hoax until it is fully investigated and vetted.  We just may find that next PGF or class A sample.  

[Guest DWA]

Um...er...Crow?

 

The evidence says that the OPer is wasting his time...and a very impressive swatch of it indeed.

 

The OPer is also cheating himself, pretty badly.  Shame, that.

^

If you think the above are the only well known and well publicized bigfoot events of the last 40 years that that explains where you are going wrong.

 

 

That's a ping.  For gawd's sake my friend, broaden your repertoire.  They got lending libraries where you are from?

These.  The feller is flat scarin' me.  Which brings me to the REAL question, in this thread.  This is the meat.  If of course they'd just come clean.

http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/51346-why-would-denialist-waste-their-time-on-this-or-any-other-bf-website/

[Guest Crowlogic]

^ Sensationalism is just another term for marketing.  Actual discoveries are often overshadowed by the sensationalistic huckster.  Just take the daily news for example.  No one pays attention unless it is sensational, that is the mindset of the public these days.  Too many people these days need drama in their lives, and being a troll or a hoaxer in the field of cryptids is how they get it, sad to say.  I agree Crowlogic, little will be advanced as far as Sasquatch is concerned until there is hardcore evidence of the creature.  My stance is that maybe we shouldn't just blow off the small tidbits of information and evidence as being a hoax until it is fully investigated and vetted.  We just may find that next PGF or class A sample.  

So genuine finds are always made by unassuming folks who prefer to deprive the world of the gold they have discovered?  This makes little sense.  Roger Patterson took it public and he may have had the most believable evidence anyone has ever had.  However it also puts him in the huckster category since that's where you find the public marketeers.  Most likely beyond contention evidence simply does not exist and if you're going to impress the jaded masses you'll have to shall we say augment the truth.

[MarkGlasgow]

Sightings and 'encounters' make the newspapers almost every week. However these testimonies will be casually dismissed as lies or bears.

You seem to be holding out for flagpole video events which are scarce to say the least. If you define BF by Standing's close up facial shots or Dyer's rubber Hank then you seem to be missing the point Crow.

You ask for more pics, footage and 'evidence' but ultimately you'll be a body on the slab guy like so many others of your ilk.

[Doc Holliday]

well, not sure about the wasting part...........

 

but maybe because  in spite of all the bull excrement that permeates this field ,like the known hoaxes , attention and $ seekers etc  people keep seeing something out there that defies explanation.

 

....... people that  don't report it, and wouldn't admit it if asked publicly still share privately ......sometimes.

 

........ people that have grown up outdoors and know what bears and the usual suspects look / move like and know it wasn't "the usual ."

 

and because , imo, that for many of us the PGF isn't the end all be all sum total of things BF and other reasons bear ( no pun ) looking into.

[Guest]

For all of the posters that say that the old hoaxes no longer bear weight I offer a question.  What bigfoot event that has been a major news event has been rated as a genuine bigfoot?  

 

That is not how you opened this thread. In your thread opener you claimed "every well known publicized bigfoot event of the past 40 years has been determined to be a hoax.".

 

That was not a factual claim.  

[guyzonthropus]

There could well be more than sufficient evidence, if not slab specimens, being "held" in that metaphorical wharehouse operated by "TopMen" ....

would it be so surprising to discover the government has been conducting high level research on these beings for years if not decades, and has effectively utilized popularization via the media(presenting possibly erroneous information along with ineffective search technique leading to no conclusive results) which just lends further momentum to widespread disbelief, thereby preventing the mainstream from even thinking about the issue, much less, taking it seriously, which then shields their covert accumulation of knowledge and postpones the disclosure of this knowledge, to the benefit of various big money industries, social order, and the reigns of power?

Seems no less unlikely than bipartisan legislation, the moon landings, or microwave popcorn (do note that these three examples are connected in more ways than even we of the BFF can conceive, and certainly represent aspects of their heinous and diabolical schemes for global supremacy...but i ve already said too much...) It aint much of a jump to go from believing we only have the rovers and probes on mars to believing there might be things we are just not told or should, in their eyes, even ask about.......

Then again, might be wrong about all that too.....sure would be nice if i was.......lol

Edited May 27, 2015 by guyzonthropus

[JDL]

There are two types of direct hoax victims;

 

1.  Those who believe that the hoax is real.

 

2.  Those who believe that since one occurrence is hoaxed, all occurrences are therefore hoaxes.

 

Be kind to the OP, folks.  He is a hoax victim of the second kind.

[Guest Crowlogic]

There are two types of direct hoax victims;

 

1.  Those who believe that the hoax is real.

 

2.  Those who believe that since one occurrence is hoaxed, all occurrences are therefore hoaxes.

 

Be kind to the OP, folks.  He is a hoax victim of the second kind.

There is also a third type of hoax victim.  The third victim understands the concept that hoaxes can exist and at the same time understands that a legitimate portrayal of the subject is also possible.  This duality can exist for years if not decades.  As time passes and information is amassed from both sides of the equation and end result of it can begin to be formed.  This result is a product of a balance so to speak.  On the one hand there is the history of public hoaxes that portray a final proof case closed.  Each and every case of this fails and that is well known.  Then there is the esoteric evidence, the background behind the scenes bit building of something moving towards conclusion.  Eventually neither side presents a convincing enough reality to continue to stake belief in.  Had Ketchum been able to come forward with a clean report embraced by true scientific journals with a DNA analysis as solid and unshakable as if had been the analysis of a Chimpanzee each and every hoax ever portrayed would have been defeated and belief truly absolved of the specter of fantasy.  But it didn't happen that way and so far it never happens that way.  Eventually though the truth for better or for worse does arrive.  

[Guest DWA]

Well, your last sentence at least; and those of us in the know already know what the truth will be.  Those - to borrow a phrase from the OP - wasting their time fighting the tide of evidence might want to join in the fun those of us in the know are having right now...or wait for the inevitable in respectful silence (which just uses far less negative energy and telegraphs lack of information far less blatantly).

 

One thing is very clear to those of us in the know:  that tide of evidence has been rising, rapidly, since the advent of the internet.  For reasons easy for anyone of scientific bent to understand, which have nothing to do with copycatting, and everything to do with the enlightened sharing and use of information.  To avoid it requires effort, will, and denial, all of which are, well, to borrow from the OP...a waste of time.

Edited May 27, 2015 by DWA

[JDL]

From my perspective the third type of hoax victim is the indirect victim, who is subjected either to blind belief from the first type, or the disinformation efforts of the second.

[Guest Crowlogic]

Well, your last sentence at least; and those of us in the know already know what the truth will be.  Those - to borrow a phrase from the OP - wasting their time fighting the tide of evidence might want to join in the fun those of us in the know are having right now...or wait for the inevitable in respectful silence (which just uses far less negative energy and telegraphs lack of information far less blatantly).

 

One thing is very clear to those of us in the know:  that tide of evidence has been rising, rapidly, since the advent of the internet.  For reasons easy for anyone of scientific bent to understand, which have nothing to do with copycatting, and everything to do with the enlightened sharing and use of information.  To avoid it requires effort, will, and denial, all of which are, well, to borrow from the OP...a waste of time.

We're better than 20 years into the internet age which is almost half of the modern bigfoot era.  True the internet has made it easier to find information but the quality of that information is scarcely better than the preinternet.  I'ts maybe a bit more visibly entertaining but not much is new.  The entire marketing of the bigfoot idea has certainly thrived from the internet and it's presenters have grorwn more clever about it as well.

From my perspective the third type of hoax victim is the indirect victim, who is subjected either to blind belief from the first type, or the disinformation efforts of the second.

Unless you have a body or an indisputable part of one than the usual evidence is if not disinformation it's non information.