Why Would Proponents Waste Their Time Believing?

[Guest]

Proponents don't fail to grasp that. We deal with that all the time. I saw two close up (about 8 feet) in very good lighting so I am a proponent out of experience. But I concede that the hoaxing thing is very real. My take on that is aspiring comics that have no idea how worn the joke really is.

 

 

^^ In fact, this.

 

Not always, but quite often. Stay away from the absolutes and this gets easier to understand. I have a photo of a footprint I found. I posted it on this site. I know for a fact that no person was walking around where I found the associated trackway- you would have to be plain nuts to be in a place like that barefoot. When I posted the photo (which had focus problems I did not detect until much later- cell phones are not the best at focus in poor lighting), I literally got lacerated as if I was trying to commit a hoax. Its easy to imagine this happening to other people and under such conditions very easy to imagine that they would refuse to come forward- especially if it might affect their reputation (BF, UFOs and ghosts being the 3 big ones that can brand you as a nutbag)!

 

IOW it make a lot of sense to 'deprive the world of the gold they have discovered'. I know I won't be showing any evidence I find if I am lucky enough to do so again... who needs the heartache??

 

 

Bulleseye Salubrious! Well done and good post I couldn’t agree more with your post. Often you see nuances that really are important. I read more than I post, which is reflective of my social personality in general, but I have found the BFF Forum to be a decent microcosm of real life in terms of the distribution of people and their similar interests.

 

More interesting IMO is how quickly personal tolerance evaporates when our (their) sacred cow is gored.

 

What some confuse as evidence is merely judgmental mockery and that exists, but it's often played up for its entertainment value and the perception is that it’s the same old monkeysphere so you’re better off keeping it to yourself for the very precise reasons you listed.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Gumshoeye

[MarkGlasgow]

Two huge Bigfoot events fairly recently involving footage from thermal cameras. The Bart Cutino sighting which features excellent follow up analysis and the Stacey Brown Florida footage which was in turn scrutinized by Cliff Barackman.

Perhaps your average 'critical thinker' may body swerve these incidents as they cannot be casually dismissed. Maybe we should stick to referring to Dyer and Standing for the purposes of proving your point?

Edited May 28, 2015 by MarkGlasgow

[Rockape]

^ I don't understand why the Stacy Brown thermal hasn't made more of a splash. I have yet to see anyone try to prove it wrong and if it is faked it should be easy to show how it was done. Maybe no one has tried. I don't even recall the scoftics going after it. For me, it's some of the best film evidence since the PGF.

[Guest DWA]

What the proponent fails to grasp is the weight of the hoax tradition that has plagued the issue from the beginning.  Every stitch of circumstantial evidence is weakened by two very oppressing factors.  The first is the hoaxing factor and the other is the absence of proof of the animal itself.  

You have zero idea how comprehensively thoroughly we grasp it, Crow.  This is what bigfoot skeptics fail to grasp:  the power of knowing how to evaluate evidence.  I place the evidence in two neat piles.

 

1.  The crap.

2.  The good stuff.

 

There's quite a bit of mental software required and it doesn't come installed.  Maybe that's the problem too many are having with this.

[Doc Holliday]

But the 'Footers in the 'Burbs will tell you they're real -- the seen 'em.

 

 

 

But I didn't see a Bigfoot. No one has.

 

plenty of sightings take place outside the burbs...... and yes plenty of bull-oney stories from all around.. but even if 98 % of all reports were pure crap that still leaves a lot of unexplained.

 

no one has ? good luck proving that 

[Guest DWA]

I wouldn't stake my opinion on anything on what Squatchy thinks.  But this might just be me.

 

Mountain lions, bighorn sheep, black and grizz, wolf, coyote...it's all in the 'burbs.  Anyone paying attention out there?  One caveat:  in every instance the "burb" in question is located right on the edge of a big block of suitable habitat.

 

See how the world works?

[Guest Crowlogic]

Two huge Bigfoot events fairly recently involving footage from thermal cameras. The Bart Cutino sighting which features excellent follow up analysis and the Stacey Brown Florida footage which was in turn scrutinized by Cliff Barackman.

Perhaps your average 'critical thinker' may body swerve these incidents as they cannot be casually dismissed. Maybe we should stick to referring to Dyer and Standing for the purposes of proving your point?

Sorry to disappoint but these are not the kind of huge bigfoot events that I refer to.  These are big events in the bigfoot community and that does not count nearly as much as those that are nation wide on the networks.  Stacy Brown video I've seen a dozen times and curiously it should be called a big hand not a bogfoot.  It's little more than a thermalblob and not nearly long enough to draw a conclusion from.  I'm not surprised it didn't go mainstream.  Much the same can be said for the Bart Cutino which shows even less of whatever is there.  Neither one of those videos are going to withstand the kind of rigor that opens the possibility of no doubt.  Clearly we have very different opinions about what is solid and substantial evidence.  I'd rate the Stacy Brown as a C- and the Bart Cutino as D-.  It manages to get a passing grade because there is something on the video.  

[chelefoot]

Which big bigfoot events have not been hoaxes?

 

Sorry to disappoint but these are not the kind of huge bigfoot events that I refer to.  These are big events in the bigfoot community and that does not count nearly as much as those that are nation wide on the networks.  Stacy Brown video I've seen a dozen times and curiously it should be called a big hand not a bogfoot.  It's little more than a thermalblob and not nearly long enough to draw a conclusion from.  I'm not surprised it didn't go mainstream.  Much the same can be said for the Bart Cutino which shows even less of whatever is there.  Neither one of those videos are going to withstand the kind of rigor that opens the possibility of no doubt.  Clearly we have very different opinions about what is solid and substantial evidence.  I'd rate the Stacy Brown as a C- and the Bart Cutino as D-.  It manages to get a passing grade because there is something on the video.  

So you measure the importance of Bigfoot events by how much media attention they receive?

 

No wonder you don't believe BF exists.

[Guest DWA]

Sorry to disappoint but these are not the kind of huge bigfoot events that I refer to.  These are big events in the bigfoot community and that does not count nearly as much as those that are nation wide on the networks.  Stacy Brown video I've seen a dozen times and curiously it should be called a big hand not a bogfoot.  It's little more than a thermalblob and not nearly long enough to draw a conclusion from.  I'm not surprised it didn't go mainstream.  Much the same can be said for the Bart Cutino which shows even less of whatever is there.  Neither one of those videos are going to withstand the kind of rigor that opens the possibility of no doubt.  Clearly we have very different opinions about what is solid and substantial evidence.  I'd rate the Stacy Brown as a C- and the Bart Cutino as D-.  It manages to get a passing grade because there is something on the video.  

 

OK, but the "huge bigfoot events" you refer to really don't matter, and you can't tell me that news media coverage is the barometer of "what counts" here.  Um, no it isn't; the news media have zero idea how to handle stuff like this and I routinely label anything bigfoot showing up on air "trash until proven otherwise."  See how that works?

 

You clearly aren't thinking about this right.  As I've said:  you focus on what I ignore - the trash - and ignore what I focus on - the substance.  Ohyeah I see the problem here.  "Sorry to disappoint, but you aren't focusing on the trash here?"  Oh.  OK.

[JDL]

Put some joker in the outfield during warmups for a baseball game and hit a softball to him.  He catches the softball (easy, after all) and indignantly says, "This isn't a baseball!"

 

Then he spends the entire game ignoring every baseball hit his way because he claims that they are all softballs too and that there are no baseballs being used on the field.

[Guest Crowlogic]

So you measure the importance of Bigfoot events by how much media attention they receive?

 

No wonder you don't believe BF exists.

No.  I take into consideration that it takes a certain amount quality presentation/content to make it to the networks.  From there an assessment of how the material withstands the light of day helps to determine what the bigfoot world is coming up with to shore up it's case that bigfoot exists.  IMO it seems the Stacy Brown  thermal shows something with an insanely large had as it it were a human wearing a catcher's mitt.  But the video is  way too short for serious contention into the no doubt category.  Yes obviously I've decided to toss out the tripe that floats the bigfoot boat.  So do you think any animal can have such a disproportionately large hand?  Maybe rename bigfoot  "bigappendages"  perhaps?  The other thermal I listed is not even in the take a second look category.

 

What would happen to the bigfoot community if acceptance of evidence actually had to have some upgrading in quality like clarity, closeness and length of time?  My guess is it would fold rather quickly .

Edited May 29, 2015 by Crowlogic

[JDL]

A mitt, or other prosthetic attached to the hand would have a distinctly different temperature than the hand itself.  It would be a dead giveaway.

 

The squatch in the Woodpile thermal also had a large hand.  As did the one reaching into our tent in 1974.

Edited May 29, 2015 by JDL

[Guest Crowlogic]

 

 

Not always, but quite often. Stay away from the absolutes and this gets easier to understand. I have a photo of a footprint I found. I posted it on this site. I know for a fact that no person was walking around where I found the associated trackway- you would have to be plain nuts to be in a place like that barefoot. When I posted the photo (which had focus problems I did not detect until much later- cell phones are not the best at focus in poor lighting), I literally got lacerated as if I was trying to commit a hoax. Its easy to imagine this happening to other people and under such conditions very easy to imagine that they would refuse to come forward- especially if it might affect their reputation (BF, UFOs and ghosts being the 3 big ones that can brand you as a nutbag)!

 

IOW it make a lot of sense to 'deprive the world of the gold they have discovered'. I know I won't be showing any evidence I find if I am lucky enough to do so again... who needs the heartache??

Not so fast!  Some folks do go barefoot in the wild and even some bigfooters do it!  Heck nobody in their right mind would go barefoot in the Maine wood............. Have a look at a bigfoot researcher doing the improbable.  You won't have to wait long  either 1:23 confirms my point!

 

[JDL]

More thoughts on the size of the hands.

 

A larger hand would have more blood flow, keeping it warmer in proportion to the squatch's body than a human hand would be in proportion to its body, which is consistent with what is observed on the thermal video.

 

Hadn't really considered this before viewing the video, but this all makes sense.  Larger hands and feet and better circulation in the extremities would be a selective benefit to guard against frostbite and to aid in the healing of minor woulds to the feet and hands.  Physiologically it makes sense, as does the rule of thumb that if you have big feet, you probably have big hands as well.

[Rockape]

.IMO it seems the Stacy Brown  thermal shows something with an insanely large had as it it were a human wearing a catcher's mitt. 

 

 

Well, mind you, I am a skeptic, so when I say the Brown thermal is the best since the PGF that only goes so far, since I'm not convinced the PGF is real either. I just see both having compelling points and if either are faked, I'd like to see someone replicate them.

 

And I agree about the hands being bothersome, but you would have to see the original recording in person to make a true judgment on that, and would probably need to be a video expert.

 

I know what we see on computer screens differers from what we see in real life due to problems with pixelation. I do believe photos quality degrades especially when copied due to pixeation blur and that is even more prevailent if the image is enlarged.

 

And also, when you see the original unenhanced version of the thermal...

 

 

 

 

To me at least, the hands do not appear as large as in the enhanced versions..

 

 

 

 

So to me, while this is not some sort of irrefutable evidence, just as with the PGF, I do consider it good stuff and don't dismiss it outright. I'd like to see a good vetting by someone with the experience and skills to properly ***** it. Bill Munns has done that with the PGF, I now wait for someone with equal credentials to offer a counterpoint to Bill's study. Neither of these has been done with the Stacy Brown thermal, as far as I know.

More thoughts on the size of the hands.

 

A larger hand would have more blood flow, keeping it warmer in proportion to the squatch's body than a human hand would be in proportion to its body, which is consistent with what is observed on the thermal video.

 

Hadn't really considered this before viewing the video, but this all makes sense.  Larger hands and feet and better circulation in the extremities would be a selective benefit to guard against frostbite and to aid in the healing of minor woulds to the feet and hands.  Physiologically it makes sense, as does the rule of thumb that if you have big feet, you probably have big hands as well.

 

It could also be carrying a small animal in each hand.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Rockape