So. What Happens When Sasquatch Is Proven, And We All Know The Skeptics Were Wrong All Along?

[Guest DWA]

This is the thing with me, the Extreme Skullular Density.  No effort to even show one has read anything disagreeing with what one thinks.

 

Let people like this infest a site and it's like cancer.  It spreads.  And when the ones contributing serious thought and content leave:  JREF II, and the pursuit of knowledge just took another hit.

 

But at least I'm not them, and thankful for that.  I really do wish more proponents understood what a superior viewpoint it is on the universe, to know, through either direct experience or the application of same to a body of evidence, something that on the global scale almost no one else does.  Knowing this is a serious life enricher, and reading the denial a sad thing, really.

 

If you are gonna devote that time, people...why not spend it thinking?

[SWWASAS]

Neaderfoot's reaction is very typical and I have heard it over and over by other people. They log in and the denialists are still trying to prove the P/G film is a fabrication. How they think that fits into the topic of this thread I cannot understand. As MIB points out, one film does not disprove BF. So the occasional user gets tired of the same arguments and drifts away.

[Guest]

no one needs to prove the PGF is a fake until an actual specimen is found.

 

it's the other way around.............. and shouldn't  the word :when" be replaced with "if"  in the OP?

[Guest DWA]

Never mind (OK yeah focusing on PG here to make a point) that the very same tack "skeptics" take on the topic as a whole - no proof yet means there never will be - they refuse to even consider with regard to P/G, even though there has never been, in human history, a hoax lasting this long, discussed this thoroughly, while over the entire period the knowledge and technology existed to debunk it....

 

...and there has not been, over that entire time, a shred of evidence pointing to a fake.

 

Which means: 

 

It isn't, and anyone disagreeing just needs to move on here.

 

Which, to a scientific proponent, isn't even the point.  Despite what threads here might lead some to think ...the scientific proponents are so over P/G.

Edited August 9, 2015 by DWA

[MrSkwatch]

This is the thing with me, the Extreme Skullular Density.  No effort to even show one has read anything disagreeing with what one thinks.

 

Let people like this infest a site and it's like cancer.  It spreads.  And when the ones contributing serious thought and content leave:  JREF II, and the pursuit of knowledge just took another hit.

 

But at least I'm not them, and thankful for that.  I really do wish more proponents understood what a superior viewpoint it is on the universe, to know, through either direct experience or the application of same to a body of evidence, something that on the global scale almost no one else does.  Knowing this is a serious life enricher, and reading the denial a sad thing, really.

 

If you are gonna devote that time, people...why not spend it thinking?

 

 

Wow, your tantrums are epic. Maybe a believers only section can be created. It would be interesting to see all that a Bf would be capable of doing after you've had your free-for-all for six months.

I'm not a denialist, btw. If BF is proven, I would only be sad because the mystery is a lot more fun for me.

[Guest DWA]

no one needs to prove the PGF is a fake until an actual specimen is found.

 

Wrong.  The position that it is a fake must be defended with evidence...for which there is none and over.  When there is a specimen P/G is now moot.  We'll know it was genuine.

 

it's the other way around.............. and shouldn't  the word :when" be replaced with "if"  in the OP?

 

Not to anyone paying attention to the evidence.

Wow, your tantrums are epic. Maybe a believers only section can be created. It would be interesting to see all that a Bf would be capable of doing after you've had your free-for-all for six months.

I'm not a denialist, btw. If BF is proven, I would only be sad because the mystery is a lot more fun for me.

My rants are at least backed by reality. 

[Guest Crowlogic]

This is the thing with me, the Extreme Skullular Density.  No effort to even show one has read anything disagreeing with what one thinks.

 

Let people like this infest a site and it's like cancer.  It spreads.  And when the ones contributing serious thought and content leave:  JREF II, and the pursuit of knowledge just took another hit.

 

 

If bigfootism was a pursuit that was inherently based on solid reasoning, solid personalities and a solid history of clear and un- muddy and un-muddled quasi facts and sketchy artifacts there would be no skeptical community throwing counterpoint arguments against it.  It would be great if at the deepest core of the issue there was a solid base of something, anything.  But there isn't.  There is only after the fact hearsay or after the fact secondary artifacts like casts, stick structures and stone piles none of which can be directly tied to the animal.  Some if them are barely indirectly able to be tied to the animal.

 

I'm not sure what knowledge you are alluding to.  Yes bigfootism has become more clever in the ways it creates the details of the beasts existence.  They gift, they speak, they toss stones, they build structures and the bang rock and trees.  Yes they still leave tracks, ever more variety tracks too.  They do all these marvelous things but they never show up not in any conclusive way.  I can tell you that a new cryptoid, could be created and fostered on the world using the same levels of evidence and proof as in bigfoot and the public would be none the wiser as to it's reality or unreality.  Actually we're seeing this in dogman.

 

Every former believer knows the drill.  We know what we told ourselves to keep belief going.  We said the same things you say.  we pleaded for non believers to study the evidence etc etc.  But eventually a person has heard it all.  Maybe not the specific brand new story or photo or hair sample but the scenario is understood nevertheless.  I think if nothing else the frustration of observing bigfootism as a non believer is watching the self deception of the believers.  

[SWWASAS]

If bigfootism was a pursuit that was inherently based on solid reasoning, solid personalities and a solid history of clear and un- muddy and un-muddled quasi facts and sketchy artifacts there would be no skeptical community throwing counterpoint arguments against it.  It would be great if at the deepest core of the issue there was a solid base of something, anything.  But there isn't.  There is only after the fact hearsay or after the fact secondary artifacts like casts, stick structures and stone piles none of which can be directly tied to the animal.  Some if them are barely indirectly able to be tied to the animal.

 

I'm not sure what knowledge you are alluding to.  Yes bigfootism has become more clever in the ways it creates the details of the beasts existence.  They gift, they speak, they toss stones, they build structures and the bang rock and trees.  Yes they still leave tracks, ever more variety tracks too.  They do all these marvelous things but they never show up not in any conclusive way.  I can tell you that a new cryptoid, could be created and fostered on the world using the same levels of evidence and proof as in bigfoot and the public would be none the wiser as to it's reality or unreality.  Actually we're seeing this in dogman.

 

Every former believer knows the drill.  We know what we told ourselves to keep belief going.  We said the same things you say.  we pleaded for non believers to study the evidence etc etc.  But eventually a person has heard it all.  Maybe not the specific brand new story or photo or hair sample but the scenario is understood nevertheless.  I think if nothing else the frustration of observing bigfootism as a non believer is watching the self deception of the believers.

Totally off thread topic.

[Guest DWA]

^^^What they do when reality gives them no other answer.  Way some things are.  But there's a window into it:

 

"Every former believer knows the drill.  We know what we told ourselves to keep belief going.  We said the same things you say.  we pleaded for non believers to study the evidence etc etc.  But eventually a person has heard it all.  ..."

 

See, he didn't have any evidence to tell anybody to look at.  He didn't know how to think about this.  He veered from one no-evidence extreme to the other.

 

One wonders how many times one has to say to people:  this isn't about belief.  It is about critical thinking applied to evidence, not A Skull Named Clank deflecting everything it just doesn't want to listen to.

Edited August 9, 2015 by DWA

[MrSkwatch]

My rants are at least backed by reality. 

I disagree. They are backed by your interpretation of the evidence. Many are not ready to conclude it's a done deal. You have to come to a place where you can accept that. That is the reality.

[Guest DWA]

Nope.  I'm right.

 

All the evidence needed is what bigfoot skeptics post here...almost all of which is *directly contradicted* by the evidence; much of it discredited decades ago...and it all comes back as if no one ever explained how wrong it was a thousand times over.  Sorry.  Way it is.

 

"Why does Patty have a sagittal crest...AND BREASTS AH HAH!"  Sorry, did that.  "Ray Wallace was Bigfoot."  Man got around a LOT, and made one hell of a lot of different stomper styles, eh?  "Eyewitnesses can be wrong."  They almost never are...as witness *your typical day.*  "You all say bigfoot is interdimensional can read minds can speak all human languages..."  No, *we* do not.  Those are the proponent fringe, kinda ....like you guys, only the other fringe.  Etc etc ad infinitum ad nauseam.

 

We don't go on debating the possibility that the earth is flat elsewhere in science...like we do here.  Contrary to what people seem to think here:  there isn't just Any Old Way of looking at the evidence.  Were that true...there would be no science and no knowledge.  In fact we wouldn't have made it *into* caves, much less out of them.

 

Bigfoot skepticism is the absolute triumph of uncritical naïve thinking...and hasn't it found a home here.

Edited August 9, 2015 by DWA

[Guest]

Hello All,

I think it may be too late to add the "Bigfoot" qualifier to the word "Skeptic" in the thread's title line. That may have effected a more clear-cut discussion now knowing the OP's distinction in terms. So skeptics are off the hook it would seem and the "bigfoot skeptics/opponents/denialists" camp is the one targeted by the thread's title. That's a good thing right?

IMHO though, the term "bigfoot skeptic" is synonymous with "skeptic" so just the term "bigfoot" added in should in no way shift the understood meaning of the word skeptic into the opponent category. I still say that the OP's focus should clearly state "opponents" or "denialists" and leave the term skeptic out of the equation altogether.

You are correct sir...

[Bodhi]

Wow, your tantrums are epic. Maybe a believers only section can be created. It would be interesting to see all that a Bf would be capable of doing after you've had your free-for-all for six months.

I'm not a denialist, btw. If BF is proven, I would only be sad because the mystery is a lot more fun for me.

lulz MrSkwatch,

 

nicely said and I agree, a little echo chamber would be interesting. I can't begin to imagine the new "behaviors" which would become canon in as little as six months. Flying, teleportation, anything is possible, it could be sweet.

[MIB]

I sort of doubt that.   I think with the scoftics gone, the need to circle the wagons gone because the attack tactics are gone, I think a good number of proponents would begin to ask some pretty insightful questions.    This polarization forced by the scoftics / denialists does not help anyone get to the truth .. any truth.   It's a distraction serious bigfooting does not need.  

 

Doesn't matter.  The BFF charter/guidelines are about promoting the CONVERSATION, not about getting to the answers.  BFF is not a research forum, it is a discussion forum.   The guidelines promote chaos, not progress. If you are after answers you came to the wrong place.

 

The link is at the bottom of the page, go read it yourself.  

 

In a very real sense, because of the guidelines being what they are, BFF is inherently a distraction serious bigfooting does not need.   If we had a real value, we'd have a lot more first-string researchers in our midst.  That's not to take anything away from Hairy Man or Branco or SY, but Derek left, Tyler H left, I don't see Bart's account anymore, no Bobo, no Cliff, no Meldrum, ... the list goes on and on.  It's not merely that I don't see people here that I like, I don't even see researchers here that I don't like.  It speaks its own truth.

 

MIB 

Edited August 9, 2015 by MIB

[chelefoot]

Totally off thread topic.

 

Yes is it pure thread high jacking again by the denialists. Read the title of the thread: "So what happens when Sasquatch is proven and we know the skeptics were wrong all along" How can the resident denialists read that tile and change it into another argument claiming it was Bob Gimlin wearing a suit which is totally opposite to the subject of the thread. I am starting to wonder if some of them can read. They obviously try to high jack every thread they respond to. To intentionally derail a thread is by definition trolling and I for one am tired of it. I cannot believe it is tolerated. Oh sure they will claim innocence and that they did not intentionally try to sabotage the thread but then turn right around and say how enlightened and intelligent they are to see right through bigfootery. So what is it? If you are so intelligent you know what your intent was and that was trolling in my opinion.

Not picking on you, Randy, it's just that I wanted to address these points which have been made by others as well.

I'm gonna go off topic as an admin and address this to everyone in this thread.

 

When I log on, I usually have several PMs to answer (which is great...I don't mind at all), forum stuff to take care of... then eventually, I get around to reading threads. It takes a while to get through them. And most days, i can't get through all of them. Especially, if there are other things to deal with.

 

But we didn't get a single report from this thread this week. I agree... a lot of this thread is off topic and it's starting to turn into nothing more that a repeat of several threads that have been going on lately.  It's devolved into just another proponent vs skeptic/ exist vs non existence thread with more personal jabs and not showing respect for your fellow members point of view (and this is coming from both sides of the argument). So, if you think someone is dragging a thread off topic for trolling purposes - why have you tolerated it rather than report it?  When you report a post, I get alerted the minute i log on. It's not sitting there festering and growing until I (or another admin/mod) happen to get a chance to read through that thread.I have read comments like: is it worth staying here?... it's too much trouble...

 

Some of you do use the report button. But none on this thread. But plenty of complaints of violations flying around.

 

The rules are there for a reason. The report button is there for a reason. Don't tolerate and reply to a post in violation. Report it. Let us deal with it. I won't tolerate rule violations. But it helps to know about them... as they happen. It's kind of a mute point to delete a comment that I come across that was made 2 days ago and 3 pages ago.  We depend on everyone to take responsibility for their own posts, and ask that they assist us when they see a rule violation by simply alerting us.

 

Please get this thread back on topic. Or if everyone is done answering the question in the OP, I'd be happy to shut it down.

 

For those who may not have read this yet..and those who haven't read it in a while. It's from our Rules and Guidelines. Something to consider when posting and reading:

 

The CFZ (including the BFF) has no official stance on any single aspect of the Bigfoot debate. The CFZ does not 'believe' that Bigfoot exists, or 'believe' that it does not exist, but that the evidence makes it worthy of discussion and further investigation. The members and Moderators may take a different view. That is entirely up to the individuals concerned. That being said, and while it is very difficult to pin any one opinion on a site with members as diverse as ours, there are some generalizations that can be made regarding the feeling of the board (assuming Bigfoot exists):

Bigfoot are probably flesh and blood animals, albeit very intelligent and stealthy ones. Bigfoot are unlikely to be inter-dimensional, of another world, shape shifting, can disappear, or have any other abilities that may be considered paranormal. If you feel they are any of these things, you're still very welcome to participate, but don't expect to find many in your camp.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. On the BFF we accept very little at face value. We may have a tendency to over-analyze claims and be more skeptical than some other forums dedicated to this topic, but we think that is preferable to the alternative.

Skeptics welcome! Assuming you don't come in with preconceived and immovable notions regarding Bigfoot and those who discuss the phenomenon, you'll find a spirited and thought-provoking debate waiting for you here. But keep in mind, this is a Bigfoot forum. You must accept the proponents point of view if you expect yours to be considered. This is by nature a “Bigfoot House” and is intended to foster intelligent discussion of the subject. This is not “The Anti-Bigfoot Forum”.

.....

Most importantly, BFF is not a research organization and never will be - it is simply a place for people to discuss Bigfoot. The BFF, its owners and Staff are not responsible for the content of BFF - if you find it objectionable, inaccurate or incredulous, take it up with the individual who posted it, don't blame the forum.

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What do we mean by this? Imagine the forum is run by a bunch of people who have invited you over for dinner - we expect sensible, well thought out conversation. If you start getting personal with other diners, you are likely to be ejected. This not your house after all, you don't have a right to sit at someone else's table and disrupt things.

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read more..

 

If you see a violation... please just report it. We will look at it, and if it's a rule violation - it will be dealt with. If it's decided that it is not, at least we know to watch the thread to make sure it doesn't escalate.

 

OK.  What were we talking about?

 

Oh yea...

So. What Happens When Sasquatch Is Proven, And We All Know The Skeptics Were Wrong All Along?

Edited August 9, 2015 by chelefoot