Guest UPs Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Good idea WSA! (About the pointing up!) Also, there was a guy that was developing a camera that was triggered when something stepped on a pressure sensitive mat. I thought it was a member here. Anyone remember that? I haven't read through the whole thread yet, but this person you are referring to is Bigtex. I don't know if he has had any luck with the setup, but he is very ingenious and it wouldn't surprise me if he was successful. UPs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernyahoo Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Hello gigantor, Aw heck yes it's fun. And beautiful too. I've always liked having a project to fool around with during the annual September two weeks. One year I messed around trying to make a lightning detector. I love to think and tinker when there's absolutely nothing pressing. And it probably WON'T work but I'll document even my mistakes. Guaranteed at the end of two weeks I will have ironed out all the bugs. I wish though I was good enough to incorporate a sound switch for everything so I could eliminate the string/rock fiasco. But then it would be too easy to be fun right? Something my group is working on is a live sound FM transmitter that could transmit at least 300 yards. So instead of a tree mounted camera that is sound triggered. We can sit in camp with headphones on and listen to visitors at a bait station. Strategic placement may allow a real time visual of a biped that thinks it can't be heard and hence visually spotted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted August 25, 2015 Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 (edited) Hello southernyahoo, I know Radio Shack in the 1980's carried small clip-on wireless microphones that could be adjusted to transmit on dead spots somewhere on FM radio where no stations were playing. Also two-way walkie-talkies transmit up to two miles. If you could get one keyed to stay on with maybe some kind of auxillary power source it might be something to consider. I'm just not sure how well it would pick up ambient noise from the surrounding area and at what range in the target area the mic would be effective as a listening device. Cool idea though. It is an interesting though to lay a line of say three between the target and a listening camp as a sort of array to determine when something was approaching the camp from say a mile out. Stuff like this is exactly what this thread is all about and it's good to see members staying focused. See? It can be done. Plus a lot of you know I'm becoming a stickler for staying on topic. Edited August 25, 2015 by hiflier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Stan Norton Posted August 25, 2015 Share Posted August 25, 2015 Am I correct in asserting it is William Dranghinis that has tried pressure pad cameras? Pretty sure I heard him describe such on some podcast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted August 25, 2015 Author Share Posted August 25, 2015 Hello southernyahoo, Something my group is working on is a live sound FM transmitter that could transmit at least 300 yards. So instead of a tree mounted camera that is sound triggered. We can sit in camp with headphones on and listen to visitors at a bait station. Strategic placement may allow a real time visual of a biped that thinks it can't be heard and hence visually spotted. After thinking about this some I realized that if you are 300+ feet, or even 300 yards away, then rigging the sound transmitter to a pressure plate (or not) might save on power consumption at the target location. In either case the use of headphones I don't thing is really necessary. A good small speaker system (FM radios?) placed at low volume in the base camp will allow those monitoring to move about camp and do other things without being electronically encumbered. Might make things easier to manage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bipedalist Posted August 27, 2015 BFF Patron Share Posted August 27, 2015 (edited) Think bluetooth but you need something with some wattage and transmit power. My feeling is pressure plates will not work with BF. I believe them intelligent enough to detect ground disturbances. Now if you went to some trouble to use downed or hollow logs and placed small triggers beneath where they may not be visually detectalble to anything triggering with a tibia/fibula, then maybe you would have something there. Am I correct in asserting it is William Dranghinis that has tried pressure pad cameras? Pretty sure I heard him describe such on some podcast. He has reverted to plotwatchers and has developed an underground cabling camera called eyegotcha. Last I heard he put more trust in plotwatchers. Our own need some help in Texas Tex has had some experience with pressure plate film cams. I just want to clarify how these cameras work because it seems there is a misunderstanding. The cameras have a Passive Infrared TRIGGERING sensor, which detects heat. There are ZERO emissions from the sensor. It does not illuminate or transmit a beam, it just "sees" heat. Once the sensor triggers the camera, two things happen: 1) If it's daytime and there is enough light, it just takes a pic or video. 2) If it's night time, it turns on Infrared Illuminators, which are separate from the passive triggering sensor. These do emit IR radiation, you want to "light 'em up". There are three kinds of illuminators: 2.1) Glow IR. These can be seen even by humans. 2.2) Low Glow IR. These can be seen by some animals 2.3) Black LED IR. These cannot be seen at all by any animal. Period. Below is a video from a trail camera with Black LEDs. Notice the deer cannot see the camera or the IR illuminators at all. This was captured hours after we installed the camera, so it can smell the mixture of deet and sweat that dripped on the camera when I installed it. PICT0010.gif click to animate Actually it detects delta heat changes from one sector of the camera field of view to another, thusly if bf makes a direct frontal approach and heat changes do not vary until a certain point that never occurs do to their speed or luck, they are home free. With the old "white flash" regular night flash cams, overexposure at near distances would "white out" the entire frame, I know because the night I was pinned in with a sighting a white flash game cam flashed over a bait station on the other side of the subject I was focused on allegedly triggered by another entity and not the one I was focused on. Results, whited out nothing. Living and learning in 2007 Edited August 27, 2015 by bipedalist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigantor Posted August 27, 2015 Admin Share Posted August 27, 2015 Actually it detects delta heat changes from one sector of the camera field of view to another, thusly if bf makes a direct frontal approach and heat changes do not vary until a certain point that never occurs do to their speed or luck, they are home free. I'm sure all BFs have figured this out and that why we have no pics. I'm gonna test that hypothesis one of these days... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VAfooter Posted August 27, 2015 Admin Share Posted August 27, 2015 There used to be (maybe still are if you get lucky) surplus military seismic ground sensors for sale on the internet. Usually consisted of 3-5 in-ground sensors, and a base station/receiver. Could detect anything from a man to a truck (depending on the settings) and then send a signal to the base receiver alerting the sentry. However, I think the only ones for sale now are for government purchase. I always thought these could be useful in the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest insanity42 Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I would agree with Old Dog's first response in that I do not think there are enough lenses out in the field. A few years ago I had looked at the detection range and the field of view of about 40 trail cameras. The detection range had an average of 50 ft with a maximum of 79 ft, the field of view was 42° with a single exception of 54°. Doing some geometry, the average view area is around 995 ft2. That comes to about 0.0035% of a mi2. Moultrie does have a panoramic trail camera, the Moultrie 150 and 150i which have a field of view of around 120°. Increasing the length of time in the view can make up for the lack in the number of cameras, but it is still possible to miss things as it is dependent on the population density. There is a thread in 'In The Field/Applied Scientific Methods' section pertaining to animal population density and game cameras. I've found a few other articles along the same, I'll have to dig them out. I frequently look at the mountain lion as an example of a species with low population density, which are estimated to range from 5 to 8 adults per 100 mi2 in the Diablo Mountains in California to about 0.5 to 0.8 adults per 100 mi2 in southern Utah. Comparatively, with the white-tailed deer having an estimated population of 30 to 45 million in the United States, excluding Hawai'i and Alaska (total area 3,119,884 mi2) gives about 960 to 1,440 per 100 mi2. http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/43879-animal-population-density-and-game-camera-capture/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 Hello insanity42, I agree with more lenses out there. Especially as I hit the field with my ONE! LOL. And oh yes, I almost forgot, and I have a night vision monocular that I fall asleep at (which is probably why I almost forgot to mention it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Owl Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 I don't remember what website it was that I read where a man hid in a dumpster behind a shopping strip in Florida and set rocks inside some soft drink cans in the adjacent dumpsters and he eventually fell asleep. Sometime after midnight, the rattles of the cans woke him and he peered up face to face with a Hairy Booger. It seemed to fly into a rage and attacked him, but his wild shots with his 44 magnum pistol drove it off. Maybe a trip string might be a good idea rather than electronic sensing. There's always discarded items in the forest that might not draw any attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DWA Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) I don't have any alternatives to what is being done as of now, but offer this. I believe that all of the "excuses" for not getting a BF on a trail cam are basically just that, "excuses". My thoughts are that the reason for no good trail cam shots is rather simple. The cameras aren't where the BF are. This is supposing that there are BF to take pics of. Take the millions and millions of acres of forest and woods, then take the area that a trail cam photographs. That is worse than looking for a needle in a haystack. The excuses for the trail cam not taking a pic of a BF is presupposing that there is a BF in that specific spot to take a picture of. I really doubt that a BF will ever be caught on a trail cam, not due to it's stealthy abilities, but to the sheer lack of density of habitation. You can put hundreds of trail cams in the forest, camouflage then anyway you want, but if the subject isn't there, you will never, ever get a pic of one. The reason that there are so many pic of wildlife on trail cams is that they are set up in a KNOWN area of travel that can be repeatedly proven to produce such wildlife. That, unfortunately is not the case with BF. They seem to have no set traits of travel or areas of habitation. Yeah, I know, there are those who claim habitation, and for whatever excuse, refuse to show the rest of the world, but aside from that, there are no proven areas or we would have the proof by now. Again, just my two cents. This, the part in blue particularly. The big problem in perception here is "we have pics of x y z a b c...so we should have one..." No we shouldn't and no no one should expect it. The animals we regularly get on game cams we have been hunting for thousands of years. (We learned from the Indians how to hunt them.) We're in denial that this one even exists. (And the Indians tell us it's real and we just go oh shoooooooooooore.) Information does not get either procured or handed down that way. Edited August 28, 2015 by DWA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) Hello DWA, Do you have any suggestions as an alternative to the trail cam? Of course if I'm now on ignore I don't expect an answer. VAfooter mentioned a seismic application. In a way this would interesting. I saw a documentary where an elephant's sensitivity to ground vibration was tested by sending a seismic pulse into the ground. When the device hammered the ground the elephant lifted it's foot. Ground or water as a conduit for VLF and ELF, which are the low sound frequency ranges, has been know about for a long time. Earthquakes, thunder, whales are great sources for this kind of sound. My dog hears thunder long before the storm gets into the area. He starts shaking and is the best barometer I've ever had....poor guy. So a device that picks up a low frequency in the ground from heavy footfalls might be an avenue to pursue. Surrounding a camp with tin cans on strings? IDK. Cheap perimeter alarm though maybe. Might be something to consider for someone who doesn't want the trouble of taking high-tech gear into the field to gain a voucher specimen though. A bag of empty cans and a ball of thin string and VOILA! Alarm there. Edited August 28, 2015 by hiflier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DWA Posted August 28, 2015 Share Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) Yes. What NAWAC is doing. They gave up on trail cams long ago. And practically all of them have seen one, and I doubt knowing some of them personally they'd be lying about that. I think the specimen is just a matter of time, and yeah, more of it when you get to be there a few weeks a year, max. If you have trail cams, putting them up along trails for existing game and hoping you get lucky is the best you can do. After all, we don't *know* anything about sasquatch and game cams, really. Edited August 28, 2015 by DWA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted August 28, 2015 Author Share Posted August 28, 2015 (edited) Hello All, Before I go on my two-week-living-in-the-dirt camping trip I'll test the film camera idea I mentioned earlier. I need to determine how much (or how little) weight/force/distance an object needs to fall to trigger a remote electronic shutter button. Should be a fun little experiment. Also how light the string holding the falling trigger object can be as to whether it can be thread or something a bit heavier that can still be easily broken to allow the drop trigger to land on the switch. So, string thickness vs. weight of the drop object vs. breaking strength. I'll try to set something up today and photo document the experiment for posting here. Hey, it's doing something right? Also the suggestion of using a telephoto or wide lens too will be a part of it. Kind of makes me want to spring for a 35mm SLR digital body but I'm getting ahead of myself a bit. At least for now I have the components for testing so..... Edited August 28, 2015 by hiflier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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