hiflier Posted September 1, 2015 Author Posted September 1, 2015 Hello BC Witness, And I'm sure you and the team will take all safety precautions necessary to keep yourselves safe. The devastation I've seen in the news and on the internet is crushing. I don't have to tell you, an experienced hunter, to remain wary WRT to injured animals. Good luck to you. One has to wonder how much the incidents of sightings would fall off as a result of absorbing such large scale fire events. Has there been any increase in nuisance bear reports with so many animals being uprooted?
Guest ChasingRabbits Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 hello insanity42, I completely agree with you. The direction I'm taking this is that I don't necessarily think that all members of a species are always on top of their game. Some old individual that can barely move around would be a likely casualty in a fast moving raging inferno. At least I think if it was on the move that it might eventually have to stop fleeing physically when it tires. Nature then will take it's course. So if that would ever be the case where would an old one go or do to try and survive the maelstrom? Do people find burned bear carcasses for instance? Young creatures would be at risk too. By young I mean the toddlers who are too big to be carried but too small to keep up with adults. But if BF live in family groups, would they leave grandma or grandpa behind to die? Looking at H. sapien history, during mass evacuations, the elderly/infirmed/young are not left behind---they are typically among the first to be evacuated.
hiflier Posted September 1, 2015 Author Posted September 1, 2015 Hello Chasing Rabbits, With Humans that is true. With Sasquatch I'm going the route of les anthropomorphizing the species and how they might react in emergency situations beyond their control. A sudden conflagration involving numerous lightening strikes in dry timber stands for instance where entrapment could be possible. Bodies of water may be their only recourse. Or if they need to flee quickly it may be the only recourse for any elders left behind. The survival instinct is a dire event WILL overshadow ethical behavior if one wanted to place a Human morality onto another apex mammal type. Something I'm not quite ready to do.
Guest WesT Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 hiflier, since Grizzly Bears are known to check out burned-out areas for the dead, it may be that an undocumented primate would do the same? I always wondered what could have caused our ancestors to start using fire to cook. Now I'm thinking maybe the practice evolved from scavenging the dead in forest fires.
Guest ChasingRabbits Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 Hello Chasing Rabbits, With Humans that is true. With Sasquatch I'm going the route of les anthropomorphizing the species and how they might react in emergency situations beyond their control. A sudden conflagration involving numerous lightening strikes in dry timber stands for instance where entrapment could be possible. Bodies of water may be their only recourse. Or if they need to flee quickly it may be the only recourse for any elders left behind. The survival instinct is a dire event WILL overshadow ethical behavior if one wanted to place a Human morality onto another apex mammal type. Something I'm not quite ready to do. What is the role of the elderly within the family unit of primates such as apes and monkeys?
hiflier Posted September 1, 2015 Author Posted September 1, 2015 Hello ChasingRabbits, Got me. Once a young one succeeds and dominance I couldn't say what an elder's role would be. For Human societies it varies culturally but in the animal kingdom I'm not up on how things play out at all I'm embarrassed to say.
BC witness Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 hiflier, nuisance bear reports were on the increase before the local fires, as the drought has caused the wild berry crops to ripen early, then wither from the heat, sending the bears to the suburban interface to scavenge garbage, pet food left out for dogs/cats, bird feeders, and dumpsters. My frequent trips to the opposite side of the lake from the major fire have shown a very large bear population, with my most recent sighting being a very big sow with twin cubs, last Wed. at 1 PM, just 1 km off the main logging road. The Coast Blacktail deer and the grouse are thriving, thanks to the dry, warm spring, as well. The members of the group I search with are all very experienced outdoorsmen, some with military and LEO backgrounds, so situational awareness is always high, which is why I go out with them - I know my back is always covered. :-) BTW, there was a sighting report on my usual trail route about a week ago, by a 9 year old girl passenger on an ATV. I found no tracks or other sign at the reported spot, but it is very near a 2 acre pond with lots of rushes and similar marsh plants, which would be a good food and water source. I'm revisiting as often as possible.
WSA Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 As Branco will confirm for you, he investigated an account of a community in the Black Belt of AL that regularly observed an old and apparently arthritic BF to the point they would stop their cars to allow it to (slowly) cross the road. As for what constitutes "old" in terms of BF lifespans, who is to say?
hiflier Posted September 1, 2015 Author Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) Hello BC Witness, 'Preciate the info regarding the pre-fire drought conditions. Animals have to eat and the resourceful ones, especially LARGE resourceful ones, are no exception. Plus while on the subject of bears this is an important time for them to pack on the 25-20,000 calories a day in their efforts to begin to put on the necessary fat layer for their hibernating season. One could surmise that the more temperate forests like in the Pac NW have shorter winters but the need for a higher caloric diet is still there. The droughts and fires have created a stressful double whammy on the large fauna to be sure. It may even result in a die-off due to competition? If the time for forage is too short for the coming winter season then the stresses on surviving the cold may be exacerbated. I'd say if there was ever a time to maintain the vigilance that your team is conducting then from now until spring would be a pretty fair window. Good luck in any endeavors regarding exploring bodies of water. It would make sense that until the rains come only the bigger ponds would be the ones animals would frequent in the fire areas. The smaller ones could very well be avoided altogether due to ash residues. I'd be interested in any observations you may on that have for future reference. This would be for standing pools more so than creeks and beds with flowing water. And even so it would make sense that animals can smell death in the water from upstream and might only drink out of desperation. @ WSA, As Branco will confirm for you, he investigated an account of a community in the Black Belt of AL that regularly observed an old and apparently arthritic BF to the point they would stop their cars to allow it to (slowly) cross the road. As for what constitutes "old" in terms of BF lifespans, who is to say? Yes, and it was estimated that the animal was in it's early fifties as the townsfolk had been aware of it's pattern of crossing for some decades. It was pretty grey-haired if I remember his relating of the story. It strikes me that a creature of that description would find it difficult or even impossible to survive a fast moving wildfire ignited in drought conditions. A body of water may be it's only hope at remaining alive. Something that slow even in a heightened state of adrenaline would probably find itself in quite a struggle. Edited September 1, 2015 by hiflier
hiflier Posted September 1, 2015 Author Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) Hello All, On top of all the other things like drought and wildfires, the Grand Coulee Dam area of Washington State experienced a 4.3 earthquake just a short time ago today. Edited September 1, 2015 by hiflier
Guest ChasingRabbits Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 Natural disasters like earthquakes and even severe storms are different than forest fires, imo. There are plenty of theories why some animals and some people can sense a quake or a storm before they occur: sensitivity to barometric pressure fluctuations, sensitivity to tectonic plate movement, etc. I suppose the change in temperature and odor of burning material can give an animal a clue of what might be headed its way.
Bodhi Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 Hello All, This discussion is for exploring what a possible extant wild hominid might do or how it might deal with a fire. When holding an image in one's mind like the one generally thought of when the term Bigfoot is used most might envision a large hairy creature that is muscular, fast, reclusive and intelligent. That to me is a stereotypical description that serves to be the base idea in most discussions. In this thread though there are other things regarding the creature that I'd like to bring out to give the subject of Sasquatch vs. Fire some different angles of perspective. But for now some general comments about such a creature involved in a fire scenario to start things off are welcome. Hey there Hiflier, The fire issue has always been of interest to me. The origin for sasquatch is generally thought to have come from the Coast Salish People of the Fraser Valley in British Columbia; popularized by the Indian agent John W Burns in the 1920's. Sasquatch being the westernization of the Halkomelem word for the giant wild men who lived in the mountains surrounding the tribal area. The issue is that the Coast Salish People's sasquatches not only had mastered fire but also used weapons and lived in villages. I wonder how and why the reported behaviors of sasquatches have strayed so very far from the stories told by the people from who the sasquatch was "stolen??". Having said that, a recent podcast included a story from Alaska in which a family fled to a lean-to and started a fire after being menaced by a sasquatch only to have it walk past the fire and into the structure and walk around examining the axe which was against a wall before leaving the way it had came. Of course, this was a fourth or fifth-hand report but it at least shows a sasquatch behaving in a way consistent with those of the original legend. As Branco will confirm for you, he investigated an account of a community in the Black Belt of AL that regularly observed an old and apparently arthritic BF to the point they would stop their cars to allow it to (slowly) cross the road. As for what constitutes "old" in terms of BF lifespans, who is to say? Lifespan of mountain gorilla is anywhere from 30 - 35 years for what that's worth.
JDL Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 Some fire related listings in the first post to this thread. http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/52061-reports-of-government-coverups/#entry923745
Guest insanity42 Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) What is the role of the elderly within the family unit of primates such as apes and monkeys? It varies somewhat from species to species. Older females that are no longer reproductive will act as 'babysitters' and watch the young of other females. Studies have shown this does increase the survivability rate of the offspring in the group. Older silverbacks are typically the ones who decide when and where the group moves in order to forage or sleep. Older members are more reliable when it comes to alarm calls, young tend to 'cry wolf' more often. Older members teach foraging skills to the young. In many respects, it is not too different than ourselves. Lifespan of mountain gorilla is anywhere from 30 - 35 years for what that's worth. I've read sources that say 35-40 years, but certainly a few decades and larger animals tend to have longer lifespans. Edited September 1, 2015 by insanity42
hiflier Posted September 1, 2015 Author Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) Hello Bodhi, Stories, legends, myths, and oral pass downs are all interesting to me. It also begs the question that it seems the Sasquatch/wildmen "tribes" of old did more and acted more like their Human counterparts of old than is reported today. The reports today or a large portion depict an animal that is more....animal than Human. The tree knocking, rock clacking, supposed making of stick structures, communications etc. seem far and away a rather advanced group of capabilities and high intelligence. How is it that they seem to have regressed from their ancestors to being somehow simpler in their needs. It's hard to express actually what I'm getting at here but maybe the right wording is that they lack a certain sophistication that their attributed intelligence says they should have advanced from. More intricate tool use, building fires, and permanent dwellings, are just some of the by products of an intelligent being who can learn those things from Humans. Sort of a copycat mentality that they should be more than capable of performing and teach their young. Building on the knowledge over the centuries I would expect to be the normal course of things for them. In any regard this thread on surviving a fire, especially in regard to old BF's, has been also on my mind as part of the "growing" up and out as a species that many have given Human qualities to. We know easily when fire trapped that if we know of a body of water we go there. We understand why we would go there. If Sasquatch lives in wild habitat and finds itself in real trouble would it's intelligence reason that water is the best place to be if no other avenue is available to them? Would they know about that or would it be a learn-by-doing experience because a large pond is seen as having NO fire on it's surface and never gets passed to the young? For some reason, call it the reports, call it how they live and where they live, but I'm just not seeing a smart creature in the same sense as us who reasons things like the safety of water out in their minds. Edited September 1, 2015 by hiflier
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