Sasquatch And Fire

[Bodhi]

Hey Hiflier, Sorry man I didn't realize that the thread had specialized into surviving fire. I've nothing on that but in reading the other posts I would suggest that a pyroclastic flow during the St. Helen's eruption would be too fast for any animal, regardless of smarts. I know there are reports of burned but alive sasquatch that was airlifted out after the eruption. That's about the only "warm" lead I know of with regard to sasquatch and fire. I do recall Kathy Strain talking about how many amazing archaeological sites were exposed in the western fires which occurred in the...(90's I think). The fires currently happening in the PNW might offer an opportunity to fly over areas looking for dens that were hidden by foliage previously??? 

[hiflier]

Hello Bodhi,

Good stuff there. Yes a fly over was exactly one avenue to try in the search for large ponds, or even medium sized ones that may have afforded a temporary respite from the heat and embers should it be the only option for relief. An older BF might just do that and risk or no know that the danger will be the prolonged smoke and lack of oxygen. As a young BF outrunning a fire once smelled would have been successfully easy. It the sick and elderly ones that in a truly bad situation may HAVE to be left to find their own escape. Many wild fires create their own wind and the rising heat and embers on a hillside can be a killing ground for the old and/or infirm. Even a mid aged one who was seriously injured in youth may be just too much baggage for the rest if it becomes a true life and death situation. In the end the healthy ones NEED to go on or risk perishing with those they are trying to save.

I say this for those that think that they care for their own and to an extent I agree from reports of BF's rescuing BF's and removing dead ones. But there comes a time...... This thread may be disturbing to some but there is a natural order of things and it isn't always pleasant.

Edited September 1, 2015 by hiflier

[BC witness]

Searching the fire site for tracks and other sign is becoming more problematic with each passing hour. After the 4 month drought, it's been raining heavily off and on since Friday, so heavily that we passed the August monthly average, by a factor of more than 3 times, in the last 4 days of the month! The weather dept has warned that the previously very dry ground can't absorb the water fast enough, and localized flash flooding is possible. Any visible tracks are likely to be washed away, or at least severely deteriorated by the rain. In addition, the storm intensified to a gale on Sat., blowing down thousands of trees in the region. Crews have been clearing streets and parks for days, but no one is out in the timber doing any clearing, afaik. We may be spending a lot of time opening up the trails we normally use.

 

The deluge is supposed to end sometime Thursday, just in time for the Labour Day long weekend, so I'll get out there and scout around over the holiday.

[hiflier]

Hello BC witness,

It gets slippery too. The rains also wash more ash into the rivers and streams that drain the land but any fine stuff that not to deep should wash off the high ground with such downpours. Still in all the dangers from flash flood runoff will pose the usual extra risks downstream. I think you're correct in assessing washed out tracks. But a newly exposed animal body might also be exposed where dry weather would keep it covered. I'd be very appreciative if you all got back safe with some posted pics for the Forum in your usual kind fashion.

[hiflier]

Hello All,

 

OK. There's been fire. Animals have fled. The areas around a large fire are experiencing higher concentrations of animals of all types, especially deer who may now be on a heightened alert in their new surroundings. An intelligent creature who has lived through fires for a couple of decades or more may see the pattern of fire equals more prey in the neighborhood and therefore perhaps easier hunts and ambushes. Life is good. Maybe they lost a couple of members that got naturally culled out and maybe not. If not there will NOT be fewer mouths to feed. 

 

So. This part of the discussion on BF and fire will explore what the dynamics might be AFTER the fire. Chiefly putting one in the place of deer. This time of year berries are either in short supply or gone thanks to natural cycles, the bears, the BF's, the birds and anything else that eats them. Bears need to fatten up for winter and nearing the close of the moth eating weeks in the higher elevations they will turn to whatever it is that's left for them: carrion from the fire, plants in the areas that survived the event and whatever else. The deer on the other hand have a double problem. Nutrition and avoiding being nutrition for an apex predator, wolves, coyotes and so the areas post fire may be one place to run to and stay on the fringes of.

 

The chief reason being visibility. With little or no foliage left it would be easier to see something stalking them even though they themselves are more easily seen as well. 

[Guest ChasingRabbits]

 

What is the role of the elderly within the family unit of primates such as apes and monkeys?

It varies somewhat from species to species.

• Older females that are no longer reproductive will act as 'babysitters' and watch the young of other females. Studies have shown this does increase the survivability rate of the offspring in the group.
• Older silverbacks are typically the ones who decide when and where the group moves in order to forage or sleep.
• Older members are more reliable when it comes to alarm calls, young tend to 'cry wolf' more often.
• Older members teach foraging skills to the young.

In many respects, it is not too different than ourselves.

 

Lifespan of mountain gorilla is anywhere from 30 - 35 years for what that's worth.

I've read sources that say 35-40 years, but certainly a few decades and larger animals tend to have longer lifespans.

 

 

Thanks for the info. It's safe to say that elderly primates aren't useless to their family groups and not put away into old folk's homes so to speak. So I can't see the family leaving an elder behind in an emergency situation.

 

If BF elders have a similar role in their family groups, I can't see them being left behind either.

[hiflier]

Hello All,

 

 Could be time for me to do some research and see if primatologists have any observations along these lines to impart. The reason I brought up the post-fire idea is for talking over how long after the fire one might perhaps have in the area of looking for footprints or other sign of BF presence. That presence if any would be for hunting prey that has reentered the area as a safety measure to help keep a better eye on would be attackers. Something that is more difficult in foliated conditions.

 

In other words the usual things like what people report, like BF hiding in the shadows of leaf cover or even tree peeping could be less effective in a scorched forest situation. It may not keep them from trying those techniques though it may reduce the advantages enjoyed in leafier conditions. If it doesn't deter a hunt then the footprints just might be easier to spot and, without the usual detritus on the ground, appear in more abundance. Rain may wash some away but even the wet ash afterwards would be a good material for holding a print of a foot or a knuckle. No animal is perfect enough as a predator as we know to not leave an effect of their presence given the situation. 

Edited September 2, 2015 by hiflier

[norseman]

Well if you can catch them in a new burn? They would be easy to spot and track!

[hiflier]

Hello Norseman,

 

Thank you, my thoughts exactly.

[Guest ChasingRabbits]

Regarding post-fire areas....would BF return to a newly scorched area when food would be scarce or would they return when the area has healed and food sources are available? Again, putting myself in the BF's shoes, I wouldn't go back until I was sure I'd have enough resources to live.

[hiflier]

Hello ChasingRabbits,

Good points all. I think I covered my thoughts on the matter in my last two or posts. Granted it a large dose of speculation but in a nutshell the only reason I can think of for why prey would re-enter a scorched land is to avoid predation and have better advanced warning by being able to spot their ambushers. The predators, wolves. coyotes, and BF? Would only go back in to chase the prey even though the ability to be stealthy is reduced. It depends on how hungry they and/or and the ones in their group are. After seeing a small herd of deer go into those areas to escape enemies it could be very tempting to pursue them if competition is increased in the newer unburned areas of refuge.

[Guest]

I believe the Bigfoot/ Sasquatch understand fire to the degree that it will burn them and will cause them to perspire and they avoid it but there is some information to suggest they have no fear of fire as we would think. For decades upon decades farmers and ranchers have practiced controlled brush burns for weed and brush control as well as for new growth agri- purposes so they already would have been introduced to that long before this thread. There are also numerous reports of cave dwelling Bigfoot/ Sasquatch that showed existence of some type of fire use either for food or heat. Considering the many opportunities to watch and learn man’s need to use control burns therefore, it would be reasonable to suggest they also watched and learned man’s use of fire to cook food over campfires as well.    

 

 

July 30, 1900

Montclair, New York

Giant Wild Man In Jersey Woods. His Big Club And Streaming Hair Fill Montclair Folks With Terror. Police Find Gnawed Bones and Embers of Fires, but Fail to Get the Wild Man. (Special Associated Press Service.) New York, July 30 – Policemen are making a search of the woods on the outskirts of Montclair, N.J. in an effort to find a giant wild man, with long, streaming hair, who for days has been spreading terror throughout the neighborhood of his haunt. They have found every evidence that a savage being of some kind has been inhabiting the strip of forest. There are the gnawed bones of animals and fowls which have fallen victims to the prowess of the wild huntsman. In several places were discovered the embers of fires. Near one of the heaps of ashes was a rude club. The wild man himself cannot be found, although a posse beat the woods carefully. The news that a wild being is at large has thrown the town into a state of excitement.  The Post Standard, Syracuse, N.Y., Tuesday Morning, July 31, 1900

[hiflier]

Hello Gumshoeye,

It's just too difficult for me to imaging two things. That a completely hair-covered creature would ever risk creating fire even if they could. And that the act of creating a fire itself by friction, which requires knowledge as well as the forethought of when to create a fire, and for what purpose, eludes me when it comes to anything not Human. The risk to the young and any other creature is simply too great and, IMO, the risk has been one of terrifying experience ages long in the making. So....fire bad.

Edited September 3, 2015 by hiflier

[Guest]

^^^

When I read your post I couldn’t help think of the scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz, like the scarecrow I would think fire is the last thing they would tolerate with all that hair but there are hundreds of accounts of Bigfoot/ Sasquatch swarming around campfires and campsites. A little fire doesn’t seem to faze them and the food they skim from the campsites doesn’t tell me fire bad, it tells me fire good if the opportunity presents itself.  

[Guest JiggyPotamus]

I definitely think that there are quite a few individual sasquatch who have seen fire. So they wouldn't necessarily be confused by it. But do they know "what" it is or how it works? Do they know how to start a fire? I do not believe that the ability to make fire is something the majority of sasquatch can accomplish. And even though I have serious reservations about the possibility of any sasquatch being able to make fire, I have to admit that, given their intelligence, some of them might have been able to figure it out. I wish we knew exactly how far their intelligence extended. For instance, does their intelligence simply extend to bushcraft skills, or are these animals able to use logic and deduction? I have mentioned in the past the possibility that sasquatch may only "seem" intelligent to us because of what little evidence we have on human-bigfoot interactions, and if you took a bigfoot out of the wild they might seem as dumb as a rock. This would be understandable. So if their intelligence extends beyond their ability to survive and interact with all things in their environment, and instead includes logical thinking and reasoning skills, it is quite possible that some of them would know to pile up sticks and create a spark with a rock to create fire. That is the difficult part, and actually utilizing the fire for cooking would be likely to naturally follow.

 

Has anyone ever witnessed how intelligent many birds tend to be? Yet their intelligence is limited to certain things. My favorite video of smart birds is the one in which they drop nuts from the power lines above a street, allowing the cars to run over the nuts and open them, at which point the birds will go down and push to "walk" button, wait for the walk signal, and then safely retrieve their food without the fear of being run over. Birds can do that, therefore who knows what an intelligent, non-human primate is capable of?