Sasquatch As The Animal

[MIB]

CertainSum1 ... plused, and if I had more I'd give them.  You roll a couple very pertinent points into a very concise post.  

 

There seems to be more than mere "animal" curiosity behind some of the interactions I've had, it was suggestive of deliberate reflection and planning.   You are very correct, so long as we underestimate them, we put ourselves at a disadvantage.  

 

MIB

[hiflier]

Hello CertainSum1,

Some may indeed think Sasquatch to be Gorilla-like. I however do not. From my OP:

" All I've really ever wanted to discuss is Sasquatch the Animal; as in being just like any OTHER animal, Human or not. I don't need to know anymore if it's part Human, part Ape, neither, or both."

I think it's neither. It acts like it does and looks like it does because it is it's own unique animal. To say it's part Human is all about us. To say it's ape, again, is all about us. To understand Sasquatch we can't or shouldn't be part of the picture.

I think the real difference is the ability to get beyond simple learning by experience which every creature has and does and into the realm of having the ability to IMAGINE. If there is anything that separates us from any other creature it is that we have that quality and capacity- in spades.

Edited September 9, 2015 by hiflier

[hiflier]

Hello All,

Following that thought I wonder what kinds of devices, machines or products Sasquatch would come come up with if they truly had a Human brain. Since I'm a firm believer that brain vs. form vs. function might be termed a positive feedback loop one can only imagine (there's that word again) what Sasquatch might come up with.

In a bit of humor, because they are such hairy creatures it might be that the millions of cosmetology schools they would have would be busting at the seems with students KNOWING that there will always be someone one in need of a trim or the several hours or days spent producing that new head-to-toe hair do being strutted around by the females on the cutting (see what I did there?) edge of fashion. This is to illustrate very basically just how far the Sasquatch is away from being Human as we know Humans to be.

Edited September 9, 2015 by hiflier

[Guest ChasingRabbits]

hilifier - I've wondered if Bigfoot is self-aware, too. Everyone knows of the giant genetic leap between apes and humans, the idea that we are self-aware and have insight into our existence. Apes do not. On which side of this line does Bigfoot fall? Do they seem themselves as conscious beings who recognize their own uniques reflections in the water? If Bigfoot is self-aware, most of the BF community has been underestimating the creatures as being more apelike than manlike, and if people continue to do that, he'll always have the tactical advantage. "Know thy enemy"...and maybe we need to stop assuming our "enemy" thinks like a gorilla.

 

According to 2012 Cambridge Declaration of Consciousness, non-human animals are "conscious" (self-aware).

[WSA]

I'd just caution against being to quick to conclude that apes are not self-aware, in all the shades of the possible meaning of that term. (And yeah, there are dogs who seem to cross that boundary as well) There is evidence, and more coming, that they have more awareness than we once thought, and even an awareness that might challenge what that description even means in the broader sense. I find that when humans opine that animals don't have "awareness" what is usually being said is they don't have a language that would enable us to confirm that to be false.  The lack of language is also another presumption that is also not as strong as once thought.   

[hiflier]

Hello ChasingRabbits,

 

Cool. Reason is also in abundance. So that leaves self reflection- an unknown even in higher animals- and imagination which may be in the rudimentary sense a product of reason and experience. It's probably in the area of complexity that it differs greatly. For Sasquatch the reason/experience my be at full tilt in setting up ambushes

 

@ WSA,

 

Yes, language is everywhere, and in many species down to birds and further the complexity of language is completely astounding. Toss in body language and it compounds many fold. The advantage we need to focus on is that all animals including Humans are in many degrees predictable.

Edited September 9, 2015 by hiflier

[ShadowBorn]

Hiflier

Branco has said in another thread that he had set up on a creature that would walk a certain creek to this area. Now if this was happening and the creature was feeling comfortable enough to keep walking the same spot over and over  Now as an animal and not as a human this would make it a creature of habit. In my first encounter I did not see this at first but was able to pick up on it later.

 

Another thing in my first encounter was that the creature did not move but stood straight up. It's hair matched great with the bark of the pines and acted like it was the pine. The one that I did not see which was to my right was hidden by brush and was crouched down. We found places where it stood and watched our camp and would hop to another hiding spot. Like it knew how to evade and used the background and the light of the fire to its advantage.

 

Now would deer or bear in the wild behave in this manner on humans in our wilderness? Is this typical animal behavior or is this human behavior?

 

I have a interview of this hunter who has hunted in this area with state police. He has told that he has had many strange encounters with these creatures.  That they would eat their apples then defecate in their coffee filters. They said that it felt like it was a game to them and that there was no harm on what was going on. Now I would say that the trails that they use would the bear trails that are heavily used. Also it seems like they work at hiding their tracks and will do what they can to throw you off their trail. So is this what it means to be self aware? To know that you are a subject that is being studied or followed. if they are animal or part then they sure do know a lot about themselves that we do not know about our selves to want to stay this hidden for this amount of time. 

[hiflier]

Hello ShadowBorn,

I'm really not trying to be difficult or argumentative as both are quite simply too counterproductive. Here in Maine there are an estimated 20,000 Black Bears. Do some get seen? Yes. Do some become a nuisance? Yes, they can be and do. Are they intelligent? Yes again. Do we see all 20,000? Of course not and that's with a large population. The stealth of BF has a level of awareness but it's not adequate beyond their habitat. Even in tree peeping I've half joked about when "teenagers" play hide-'n-seek that the awareness or lack thereof gets teased when during tree peeping they peek out stealthily while their abdomens and rear ends protrude on either side of the tree.

Even in the NAWAC update video they apparently were trying to disguise them selves as downed tree logs. But they were in fact very much in view. It was Strain who didn't notice the ploy until it was pointed out later. Was the ploy successful? It certainly would seem so. Will Mr. Strain be fooled again? Nope, doubt it very much. Will Sasquatch try the same thing in order to hide? Probably. But now we know about the technique and so a BF using it now might mean it could end up on a slab. Because the ploy became part of a list of predictable behavior to watch out for.

I'm not refuting what you say, only setting some limits regarding how far to take it from what I've heard and read.

Edited September 10, 2015 by hiflier

[Guest ChasingRabbits]

Hello ChasingRabbits,

 

Cool. Reason is also in abundance. So that leaves self reflection- an unknown even in higher animals- and imagination which may be in the rudimentary sense a product of reason and experience. It's probably in the area of complexity that it differs greatly. For Sasquatch the reason/experience my be at full tilt in setting up ambushes

 

 

I think as the understanding of neuroscience increases the role of the brain will change too. That is, the functions of the sections of the brain will change and rather that only one section is responsible for X action, it will be that one section is primarily responsible for it but the other sections of the brain contribute too.

[hiflier]

Hello Chasing Rabbits,

 

^^^

True that. Lets take something simple as an example. Reaching for a glass of water has many elements to it as you can probably imagine. First there is recognition of thirst. Then there is understanding of what drinking water will accomplish. There is the physical part of reaching, grasping, lifting, drawing it to one's mouth and drinking. There's also eye contact involved in reaching and all the functions necessary in initially getting the water into the glass to begin with. There are many more minute steps and overlaps in brain function for accomplishing a seeming simple task.

 

What you say is spot on as we see different parts of the brain "light up" in tests. Taking life for granted is such closed door for most, including myself as I sit here and type away on what? A computer! Built by Humans with the imagination to even conceive the thought of such a device, never mind build the thing, and then have the infrastructure necessary so that when plugged in it WORKS. 

 

Sasquatch is a long, long way, 100's of thousands or even millions of years, from doing anything like that. It may never be able to evolve into such a talent.

Edited September 10, 2015 by hiflier

[Guest Crowlogic]

Lieutenant Onoda, a Japanese soldier held out in the Philipines until 1974, and that's with folks who knew he was there, and were looking for him.

 

 

Nothing is all knowing and all powerful, and even these things have a couple chinks in their armor as I discovered.  Thus my energies are oriented toward returning to a clan, and using those chinks in their armor to get good, high resolution video and fingerprints of these things.  Like everyone else, funding is always the problem.  The difference in me is - I don't have to go look for anything.  I can go right to them.  Sure saves a lot of time and even money.

 

 

If you can go straight to bigfoot  is what you mean then you have opened a can of worms you may wish you hadn't.  But first Japanese soldiers hiding out on the islands is already very old news and is it 100% certain that nobody knew where said soldiers were?  There's also the story of a hermit that lived in a thicket in a big urban park for years and nobody knew he was there.  Humans know how to evade humans and  statistically no system is perfect so some hiding out slip through the cracks no matter what.

 

Most of the special attributes given to bigfoot are excuses for why it can't be properly confirmed or proven.  Sadly the woo factor has been creeping back as there are no good bigfoot reports or undertakings going on.

 

Now then if you are able go straight to bigfoot I have to say that is an extraordinary claim.  Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof.  Supposing you are making a true claim then you hold in the palm of your hand the keys to the kingdom and can give this supposed being to a community that desperately needs it.  I am however among those who no longer carry high expectations about anything in this realm.  Good luck nevertheless.

[ShadowBorn]

^^^^

Are you suggesting a long time for the creature to be able to grasp a glass of water and think it out that it can be used to drink out of it. Maybe the making of the glass so that it can be used to drink from. If we start suggesting this then it is no longer a animal.

 

I'm really not trying to be difficult or argumentative as both are quite simply too counterproductive. Here in Maine there are an estimated 20,000 Black Bears. Do some get seen? Yes. Do some become a nuisance? Yes, they can be and do. Are they intelligent? Yes again. Do we see all 20,000? Of course not and that's with a large population. The stealth of BF has a level of awareness but it's not adequate beyond their habitat. Even in tree peeping I've half joked about when "teenagers" play hide-'n-seek that the awareness or lack thereof gets teased when during tree peeping they peek out stealthily while their abdomens and rear ends protrude on either side of the tree.

Even in the NAWAC update video they apparently were trying to disguise them selves as downed tree logs. But they were in fact very much in view. It was Strain who didn't notice the ploy until it was pointed out later. Was the ploy successful? It certainly would seem so. Will Mr. Strain be fooled again? Nope, doubt it very much. Will Sasquatch try the same thing in order to hide? Probably. But now we know about the technique and so a BF using it now might mean it could end up on a slab. Because the ploy became part of a list of predictable behavior to watch out for.

I'm not refuting what you say, only setting some limits regarding how far to take it from what I've heard and read

 

I do not believe that we should be argumentative in any discussion. Of all the times that I have gone up north in Michigan I have never ran into a bear but that does not say that they are not there. How do I know this their sign is all around. The same goes with deer and their sign it is every where and track able. Some times though with Bigfoot and their tracks it seems like they planted it there on purpose. But then you have to ask your self why would a hoaxer come out in the middle of no where hoping for some one like me to find their track.  Ok if there humans at work you would find  there sign, human shoe prints, low branch breaks, some trash. Instead I would find these heavy long stepped prints that would end abruptly. I would use my hiking stick to track the next step but would loose the track. I have seen deer do this as well where they have evaded by going in a heavily tramped deer path by out running.

 

Now can these creatures evade us by jumping on trees and swinging ? this way by not leaving no tracks on the forest floor giving the appearance of a portal. Now this is animal behavior and one that should be noted. The one that I saw stood straight up pretending to be a pine tree, now that is real stupid if you ask me knowing I had a good size caliber to bring it down. There is another report that happen in Michigan where a hunter seen a creature and the creature jumped and hid behind some bushes. The funny part is the creature still had its legs and part of its head sticking out. They cannot be that dumb right or are they. Even as humans we do some dumb stuff as well  and animals do to. But we as humans understand our mistakes and correct them.  

 

So if they are self aware then they are not to smart about it or at least some of them are more self aware then others. I would say that the ones who have shot at these creatures in all the years were not very self aware. Had no fear of humans and were willing to confront humans. They are animals and have no concept of danger and there fore do not understand humans. So unless we can bring in a specimen we will never know for sure and like I said it would have to be done secretly. No media at all or world attention  until the study has been done.   

[FarArcher]

 

Lieutenant Onoda, a Japanese soldier held out in the Philipines until 1974, and that's with folks who knew he was there, and were looking for him.

 

 

Nothing is all knowing and all powerful, and even these things have a couple chinks in their armor as I discovered.  Thus my energies are oriented toward returning to a clan, and using those chinks in their armor to get good, high resolution video and fingerprints of these things.  Like everyone else, funding is always the problem.  The difference in me is - I don't have to go look for anything.  I can go right to them.  Sure saves a lot of time and even money.

 

 

If you can go straight to bigfoot  is what you mean then you have opened a can of worms you may wish you hadn't.  But first Japanese soldiers hiding out on the islands is already very old news and is it 100% certain that nobody knew where said soldiers were?  There's also the story of a hermit that lived in a thicket in a big urban park for years and nobody knew he was there.  Humans know how to evade humans and  statistically no system is perfect so some hiding out slip through the cracks no matter what.

 

Most of the special attributes given to bigfoot are excuses for why it can't be properly confirmed or proven.  Sadly the woo factor has been creeping back as there are no good bigfoot reports or undertakings going on.

 

Now then if you are able go straight to bigfoot I have to say that is an extraordinary claim.  Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof.  Supposing you are making a true claim then you hold in the palm of your hand the keys to the kingdom and can give this supposed being to a community that desperately needs it.  I am however among those who no longer carry high expectations about anything in this realm.  Good luck nevertheless.

 

The Japanese soldier I spoke of was one of four - they engaged in guerrilla warfare - one four years later walked off and surrendered, of the other three, two were killed, and the one evaded the other locals for decades.  And he was hunted.  The point being, it doesn't take much terrain for something or someone to hide, and hide well.  I apologize for not making that clear by including a bit more detail.

 

I'd say the so-called special attributes of these critters is more a misunderstanding of what's actually occurring.

 

If I get bit by a moccasin, copperhead, rattlesnake, krait, mamba, cobra, Fer-de-Lance, or even a Brown Recluse bite, I can neutralize the poison/toxin in thirty seconds, and there's no damage done other than the seeping puncture wounds.  American physicians can't, but that's because they look at everything through the eyes of medicine.  I don't, and instead, approach it from an understanding - and that's key - understanding of biophysics.  Some may suggest I'm mistaken, but in fact, I'm not. 

 

You're correct.  There is a 'woo' factor, and it's unjustified.  They just don't understand some of the divergent capabilities of these critters.  A whale is a mammal, breathes air, and yet it can dive to thousands of feet deep - stunning - but normal for the whale.

 

Can I go straight to a clan?  Yes.  Can I get them to do the things I want them to do, when I want them to do them?  No.  Nor can I rely on having them over for Thursday Night Poker.  But I can put myself right in the middle of where they get water, where they live, and where they hunt. 

 

You are very perceptive, and I suppose the analogy of having the keys to the kingdom is somewhat appropriate.  Got the keys, don't have the gas.  Working on that.

 

You see, I'm not a Bigfoot enthusiast.  I'm not a Bigfoot hunter, researcher, investigator, and I don't like these things.  I agree there needs to be resolution.  I wasn't a tiger hunter either, but circumstances dictated that one of us was going to go down - his choice - and I'm still here.  I approach the Bigfoot the much same way.  It's just a job that needs doing.

 

And thanks for the luck gift.

[hiflier]

Hello ShodowBorn.

Really good post. The drink water out of a glass pertained to the brain doing multi-functions not Bigfoot. Bigfoot drinking out of a glass isn't as much of a stretch as it figuring out untrained that that's what it's used for. And of course this is far, far past being able to create the glass in the first place. In other words, I drink out of a glass, and even knowing what a glass is for is far from me knowing how to make one.

A Bonobo can start a fire with a lighter once taught but the manufactured equipment is already there. A Bonobo in the wild would never dream of using a lighter even if it found one. It wouldn't even know what it was or was for. At the most in playing with it it would accidently find out that it can get a nasty burn or worse and even after that it wouldn't equate it with a controlled fire that could roast food.

So you are on point as far as the awareness factor. And as you say it probably comes in degrees depending on experience and what is taught depending on the teacher's own awareness. This is how most creatures including Humans learn. Sasquatch will learn what works in the habitat they live in. It's in the area of innovation beyond what is needed that deficiencies become apparent.

[hiflier]

Hello Crowlogic,

 

Now then if you are able go straight to bigfoot I have to say that is an extraordinary claim.  Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof.  Supposing you are making a true claim then you hold in the palm of your hand the keys to the kingdom and can give this supposed being to a community that desperately needs it.  I am however among those who no longer carry high expectations about anything in this realm.  Good luck nevertheless.

I'm not quite sure that I wouldn't want to be along on that expedition. Makes me wonder if I would have a chance to enter the realm of being a "knower". Could be worth the price of admission. It's been decades having that big carrot hanging in front, eh? I too wish FarArcher luck. I think that for him though he's going to be leaving little to chance. There's a lot more going on there to be as certain as FarArcher is on the matter and, as an animal anyway, there is some predictability that someone savvy can possibly make work in their favor. I will say one thing also, getting to the stage of pulling the trigger won't be nearly as critical as the methods and precise thinking involved afterwards. Somehow I think he already knows that.

Edited September 10, 2015 by hiflier