Sasquatch As The Animal

[Guest ChasingRabbits]

 

hil

 

(snip)

Attitudes toward Humans therefore may be not so good. As a result aggression mat be something that was learned very early in the history of the clan if that's what one wants to call the group. If the attitiude towards Humans is not good or even dangerous there is no reason to think that it would not become part of the make up of what gets passed on from a dominate individual to it's successors. By the same token if historically Sasqautch was in an area where it was never shot or otherwise molested then it's approach to Humans may be more passive or timidity. Tose creature may be more of the type that show themselves and sway out in the open and then move passively into the brush.

The other end of this are the ones whose history is not so peacful. These might be see as the rock throwers, the building slappers, the tree twisters and shakers and other performances that are a lot more unnerving. both ends of these types of examples would be taught by example to other members of the group.

Honobia in this line of thinking is a situation that therefore is not something new. It's a situation that is being perpetuated by a long history of aggression by both sides and is therefore learned and passed on the Sasquatch generations. Like in the thread discussing whether or not to consider Sasquatch as an enemy but I think more needs to be looked at before that opinion can even be formed.

 

I agree if BF avoid H. sapien sapien it's due to a bad interactions in the past (very distant and not so distant). Once bitten twice shy, if you will. Or BFs just want to be left alone and are happy to be left alone.

 

As for Honobia, based upon what I've read, I think the former property owners had some kind of treaty with the neighborhood BFs, such as giving them food or giving them access to food. When the new property owners moved in and didn't continue whatever the former owners allowed, I think the BFs got upset at that.

ChassingRabbits

I agree but once you start feeding a wild animal like a bigfoot you cannot stop feeding. The creatures did not understand that the property owners had changed since to them there is no property lines. As far as they concern they were getting fed and that was the only understanding they had. They had no idea of the owners and I am not sure about that since I am not familiar with this case. But if the owner had changed and they were being fed by the old owners which you say that some deal was made by them. Then the old owners should have informed the new owners of the encounters so that some thing could have been done.

 

If they are wild humans or animals then they have no understanding of borders or property lines. To them all land is theirs no matter where they are so they feel free to roam where ever they want. If there is corn in that field it is not just yours but theirs as well just like a buck that roams freely in our lands. See I cannot see how a treaty was made with them. It is not like you sit down at a table and scribble your name at the bottom of a piece a paper. The treaty had to have been made where you do not shoot at me and I will leave your home stead alone if you allow us to take food from your land. At the same time we will protect your land from any predators and make sure that you will have a good crop. 

 

If this is what is happening then this could explain the silence of witnesses that own farms who have made treaties like this. Only when new owners who move in is when cases like this come out into the open happen. They way to calm the owners would be to provide them with the proper info so that they can live in a peace full environment. This also shows that we are dealing with a animal that can be dealt with food when violence is involved. It also shows that this creature can use violence or tactics as a tool to provide a need for a want. Talk about neuro science try to get into the mind of one of these creatures and what they are thinking.

 

 

Shadow, my use of the word "treaty" was not a good one, because I don't think they all sat down, negotiated terms, and signed something. ha ha ha.  I think it was more of an understanding: the former owners knew the BFs lived there and would leave food for them. Or would tacitly allow them to hang around the property (ie: not shoot at them or use other means to drive them away). Maybe the BFs keep the deer population down, which would promote a greater crop yield?

 

Anyhow, I have no definite proof to back it up, but it's my gut feeling this is what happened because the new owners said the initial BF activity was knocking on the front door or window. And it escalated from there. So based on that, I think the former owners had a better relationship with the BF, perhaps even leaving food for them. When they moved, the BF were cut off. When the new owners moved in, the BF thought it would be business as usual with the new people. When it wasn't.....the problems began.

 

Also Shadow....there are some humans who have no understanding of property lines. Years ago, I lived in a building with assigned parking. I can't tell you the number of times, I would come home and find my space, 10a , occupied by a car that was not mine. And it wasn't like the person didn't have a parking space of their own. He/she just parked in my space because it was a little bit closer to the building than their assigned space. After I complained, she/he stopped parking in my space. But he/she made the mistake of doing that to the resident kray-kray neighbor, who showed their displeasure by deflating the tires and having the car towed.

[ShadowBorn]

This is not directed to any one person.  Just a few observations and comments to clarify a few things.

 

1.  Some may assume I'm a professional hunter, or that I hunt Bigfoot.  Nope.  To see one?  Saw one.  See his face?  Saw it.  Up close?  I'd have to sit in his lap to get any closer.  Interact?  Done that, didn't enjoy it.  To learn?  I learned I didn't like them.

 

2.  I'm not a Bigfoot enthusiast, I'm not a Bigfoot researcher, I'm not a Bigfoot investigator, I'm not a field biologist, nor an anthropologist.  I have, however, been the keynote speaker of multiple Special Operations functions.  Read into it what you will.

 

3.  Some may assume that one (I) can/would go to this clan on the cheap and just get video or photos.  That won't work.  If you don't understand why, you don't understand why.

 

4.  I once mentioned that if someone shoots one, they may find themselves in a fight.  Take it, leave it, or forget it.

 

5.  Some may assume I'm supposed to share what I know and how I know it.  My apologies, but everything I know has been hard-earned, irritating, difficult, very expensive, and I'm going to use that myself.  For my own purposes, in my own time, my own way.  They've been living on that mountain for centuries, and they'll be there when I get around to it, and it will be approached as just another job.

 

6.  Some may assume that approach is pretty harsh and self-serving.  Agreed.  I've shared some things, but from the feedback here, sharing seems counterproductive.  Most folks today want immediate gratification, bred through a misplaced sense of entitlement.  I don't have time for that.

 

7.  Some may assume the behavior of these critters should match their own expectations - or that if Sasquatches are present or active, they should provide you with multiples of evidence to match your expectations, and do so in the places you've determined are ideal to look.  That's incorrect, in my opinion.

 

8.  Some may try to define these critters by your own personal terminologies, or personal perceptions, or rationale, and you may or may not be mistaken.  My suggestion is to minimize your assumptions.  Mine were all wrong.

Fararcher

I will start with the 1st what is it that you did not like about the interaction? Did they leave you at Aw ! was the interaction intense, more intense then combat. What I saw left me with no understanding. How do you react to seeing one of these and then knowing that what you expect to happen does not happen. I feel comfortable walking the woods with out a gun. But what worries me more is man who is cabable of killing. so yes a side arm is needed just for that purpose. You cannot hunt some thing that is stealthy unless you your self can match it. They have thought and use it like us and it means some thing.

 

How did you feel to have it so close to be able to touch it? Did it sway  or have any notice of your presence? if you are permitted to speak about it.

 

 hiflier

I have seen this sway of these creatures through a star light. It was hypnotic and it seemed like that is what it was trying to do or either trying to calm it self down while anther person nelt down in front of it. I looked to the right of it and this is when I seen a small one with the star light. It was hunched over and was in a running position.I passed the star light over to a partner and he looked and saw that one and the one swaying and also saw one to the left hunched over in a running position. The guy with thhe thermo was looking else where when this was taking place. When I called out to get the thermo on the subjects  and he turned the subjects ran into heavy brush. we only caught glimpse of one running back. But when we placed the star light on them it seemed like they must have thought that we were targeting them cause the one to the right did turn around but stopped and turned back. I am not sure what the big one did at that time but when I looked back it was still swaying. also no smell what so over and the forest was silent.

 

Now where we were camping at there were some bear bait cans . and there were some heavy trails but there were also tracks of a large size man and branch breaks at around waist high and some a little higher. There also pine tree pulled out by the roots and hung on trees. never saw this any where else except that area. Tree tepees were mostly found in other areas and were mostly placed where I would find them. I only found one X tree mark in a nice hunting hole ,I tore it down and traveled back in there and hunted. Thats when i recieved the knocks and the dreaded feeling to get the heck out..

 

I think that you can get that sense from all animals including dogs when you are about to be attacked. Even humans give off that vibe when you are walking down a street. You know when some thing is about to go down but you do not know what well I heed that inner voice. With these creatures some time you get this good vibe and then you get this bad vibe.I am not sure if we all have built into us but there is some thing there that helps us survive.

 

Fararcher

If you want to PM me your encounter that would be cool I will keep it confedential and destroy after i read it. I can send you a key if you want it encypted, no problem.

 

ChassingRabbits

Thats no problem I understood , I was just being stupid. But I do know that you can come to an understanding with these creatures. Even though they do not need too they do it any how out of mutual respect.If only our world can be this way we be way better off.If you can link me to this honobia case that would be great . I would like to study up on it. Alot of what i say is what i have observed in my encounters.This paranormal and mind speak is a seperate issue and should be dealt that way. Deal with this creature as a flesh and blood first get to know it's habits get to understand if it is a human or a animal of the wild. I always thought that you were very sketical and thats ok , I do not care. I was at one time . Learning is a process and it takes time hope fully we do it in our life time if not we will know all there is to know afterwards. Enjoy what we have now so we have no regrets later. 

[hiflier]

Hello FarArcher,

With you on this. Stomping on ants while the elephants are coming over the wall is a metaphor for short-assessing the situation. ANY animal that bands together and then groups itself around and close in to Humans.....AT NIGHT!.....is usually severely dealt with by authorities. Not seemingly the case with Sasquatch even though events just like that are reported. A situation like that should never be tolerated as it could easily lead to tragedy. History has such stories. With over 120 BF groups between the internet and elsewhere and zero body one does have to wonder where the priorities are. Members here know my own track record of ranting about conferences but hey it's a free country right? OK. 'Nuther rant over

On topic now. Stealth. Running into the brush to get away and hide from would-be attackers, or perceived would-be attackers, is standard operations for nearly all animals. For many it's all they can do- it's all they know how to do; it's what they learned from parental example and urging. Sasquatch does it too but takes it to the next level. There are creatures that lie in ambush as a methodology for surviving. They are NOT herbivores. But they can be, and are often, omnivores. Which way one goes depends on the situation. Winter may see more predation than in Summer for obvious reasons.

So, if not pursuing sustenance that grows out of the ground, drops from a tree, lives under a log, rock, or water then taking down another creature is an option. With a predator that has all the physical capabilities of a Human but with ten times the strength, and in some reported cases up to four times the weight plus an extra one to two feet in height, then the obvious drawbacks to being seen or heard by wary prey must be overcome. I don't think Sasquatch has an great capacity for registering predictability when it comes to other animals and yet we KNOW there is predictability in other animals. Very basically illustrated if animals weren't creatures of habit AND efficiency there would be no game trails.

Sasquatch know animals use game trails just as much as we know. So what would be the techniques it might use. Sit and wait for something to come along comes to mind, especially the trails that lead to water. A sasquatch not on the hunt might even use these well-worn routes for itself. I think sightings of them hiding in brush and tree peeping results from two things, they are in hunting mode and/or they are not hunting but curious about any intrusions. I also think most don't show aggression at the time because the dominate one- the Alpha- has taken the same approach. If the Alpha escalates it's activity the subordinates will do likewise. More on this later.

[hiflier]

Hello All,

Staying with game trails here. Many are hard to see, a lot are obvious. sometimes new roads are laid across old trails and guess what? The next thing is the yellow sign goes up saying "Deer Xing" or Moose Crossing". Because you can't stop Nature's habit or efficiency without a fence. Do Sasquatch know the trails in their area? Sure do. Do thye use them to take down game? Not necessarily unless forced to. And even then success depends on great stealth. With their odor and the smell of hunger on them, plus their size then it can be a long wait. Especially if bushwacking to the game trail.

As quiet as they are reported to be? That level of quiet is what we Humans have trouble hearing. Not deer, not Moose, and not Elk. So how does Sasquatch do it? Several ways. One is by using a parallel trail to the game trail. It could be on one side or both depending on what the creature learned to do or has already set up from generations of hunting. It's narrower, deeper, devoid of branches and just wide enough or tall enough for whatever type of hunting technique is deployed: standing, crouching, stooped over, on all fours....you get the idea.

These paths being only 20 to 40 ft. off the main trail are far enough away to allow stalking or getting into an ambush position silently but close enough that the distance to prey can be covered in 2 seconds or less. It also allows efficient ambushing by several in the hunting party. I think when a shrub or small tree is shaken it isn't as much for display purposes, or as a perceived warning to Humans, as it is a distraction to gain an edge for the ambushers coming in from a different direction.

Fast, big, and strong are a perfect combination for success. This method is primarily for dense shrubbery along the fringes of the primary game trail. Open forest needs a different approach as visibility is better for both predator and prey.

Edited September 12, 2015 by hiflier

[hiflier]

Hello All,

Continuing the idea of Sasquatch As The Animal I think one of the truly necessary researching needs to be done in the area of caves. It is said that Sasquatch doesn't hibernate. It is also speculated that they don't utilize caves but prefer rock outcroppings? I disagree I think that cave usage IS the preferred home of a Sasquatch and it's family(s). So I wish to explore this in greater depth in the next post.

[hiflier]

Hello All,

Animals use caves. Period. Let's start with this:

http://www.wildlifeextra.com/go/news/gorilla-cave.html#cr

Gorillas use caves. It was a surprise to me when I ran across that website. Sasquatch reports involving caves are not uncommon. And even if caves aren't in abundance in a region we Humans have created them in mining operations all over North America. Reports of Sasquatch encounters in aras or along roads where mines exist could b a correlation to look at a bit more closely, especially in the kind of habitat that sees a lot of rainfall and or/harsh winters.

I can't imagine that a Sasqautch family would not prefer to be dry in prolonged periods of rainfall or when temperatures plummet to zero or below. Homo has been intelligent enough to seek refuge in caves for many reasons. Safety being one of them. After fire became normal to create then caves became not so fearful a place to reside in. Many bones are found in them from hunts and even caves in Southeast Asia has been found to have the bones of the Orangutan but it isn't thought that the creature used them as refuge. It IS thought however that Orangutans were hunted by Homo and that they were even kept as "pets" until large enough to be consumed as food because it was easier than Homo going out to look for them.

I've been turning over the idea of the territorial Sasquatch which uses sentries to guard territory and warn a group of intrusions- via wood knocks and howls, etc. If the central hub of the "family" is a cave or system of caves then as long as the structures are near water then it would be a good set-up for forays onto roads (sentries) and a reason to distract intruders by stepping in the open and doing things like swaying and then walking into the woods- AWAY from the core area.

Caves also have a resonance that Sasquatch maybe aware enough of to use to make a howl louder and carry farther than it would normally be able to project. It makes me think that a VERY loud call would give an approximate location of such a cave. A loud howl might also be generated by facing a hollow area in a rock face. Just some things to consider for those out looking for the creature. A history or location of unused mines might be of value if the mine has been shut down for several decades, or a century, or more.

The ones closest to bodies of fresh water or streams as well as roads might be good candidates for a group to search for. If found there could be signs of coming and going like trails or the bones of animals.

[ShadowBorn]

Now was there not a report in Russia of a cave dwelling creature that was shot  by their military? I can see how they may live in caves as well as explain some disappearances they seem to do.  I have heard it said that there use to be underground cities that have been found but for some reason no mention to the public.

 

Caves are warm and when I was little I use to think that they would be cool. They make great shelter for some thing that may be living primitive when there is snow on the ground. The problem with snow ,caves and entries we would be finding foot prints in front of these doorways leading into the earth. Yet what would the Data base report if it was able to query sightings near caves, what would the percentage show? If it shows close to 100% then you or we would know that these creatures are living within the cave systems. 

 

Now that would change everything we think about them, since this would mean they would have a thriving population underground. Rather then thinking of them being forest creatures they would become cave dwelling creatures.

[hiflier]

Hello ChasingRabbits,

Yes to everything you said and thank you for getting this line of thinking. I will ice the cake by speculating that the reason Sasquatch did not die out when the rest of the mega fauna did 11,000 years ago is because they may be in fact cave dwellers as you proposed, and so some survived the cataclysm. Especially away from the center which is theorized to be in the area of the Great Lakes and Hudson Bay Canada. Thinking back on some of the Native NA stories it makes sense.

These creatures are in the forest only because that's the habitat that surrounds the caves. It's a perfect place to bring the fruits of a hunt AND.....it's a perfect place to place their dead so....no bones. I beginning to think this isn't just idle freefall thinking. It may not be correct by any means but it does seem to answer a lot of questions and even some that we think of but never ask. It's not about Portals at all- it's about caves. These animals may be as much underground as they are above.

It could make surviving fires more successful as well as remaining in active logging areas. AND as I said a long time back, I'll bet they eat bats- just reach up and grab them. And bat guano on the floor of the cave smells like rancid ammonia when decomposing. For intelligent creatures such as they are supposed to be ALL of this make good sense. It also leads me to think that the idea that they don't live in caves is disinformation. It has to be because without the cave thing Sasquatch for all it's smarts simply doesn't make much sense. Now it's beginning to.

Edited October 16, 2015 by hiflier

[BigTreeWalker]

Having spent time looking for and in some of the lava tubes of the PNW I have given the livability of these some thought. Except for on a hot day or to avoid a blizzard or hard downpour, they are drafty, damp, and hypothermia inducing cold. I have never seen evidence of any large animals occupying them. Even some of the smaller lava bubbles that seem more habitable to me have shown no evidence of occupation. Maybe I just haven't found the right ones.

I have also been in some of the caves that exist in the coulees of the Columbia River plateau basalt. These are more habitable and do show signs of NA habitation. There may be caves like these in the mountains and ridges like the Dark Divide. But like hiflier mentioned they are more pockets or outcroppings than actual caves. Because of the nature of how lava tubes are formed, they occur mostly in the bottom of valleys. But then this is a volcanic area and limestone caves or mine shafts may be more habitable than lava tubes.

[JKH]

Geography is everything.

Edited October 16, 2015 by JKH

[hiflier]

Hello BigTreeWalker,

 

OK. But does this cave thing make sense to you given the nature of how Sasquatch operate and their intelligence plus their ability to stay relatively undetected? Especially since I don't think there's ever just one Sasquatch in a given area. Lava tubes notwithstanding there are numerous caves around say in the Bend, Oregon area. I agree that shallow incursions in rock faces and rock overhangs will provide some protection but seeing as how bad odors play a part in some reports there is a thought that crops up.

 

After a kill is brought in then after a whule of feeding on it it begins to really decay and so is taken out of the "lair" and deposited elsewhere. The BF carrying this carcass IMO SHOULD smell pretty rank. I would think the best way to transport the dead animal would be in a way that would be the least unpleasant for the Sasquatch. It would seem carrying the body by the head while slung over the back would be the least unpleasant as far as smelling it while walking it somewhere. That could be what breaks the neck? 

 

As a stretch in thinking caves would also allow for a Sasquatch group to hide in areas that are more open like areas of grassland, or desert. Yep it's a stretch but if caves are normal dwellings then by utilizing them the BF's range can be extended. 

Edited October 16, 2015 by hiflier

[CMBigfoot]

Caves also have a resonance that Sasquatch maybe aware enough of to use to make a howl louder and carry farther than it would normally be able to project. It makes me think that a VERY loud call would give an approximate location of such a cave. A loud howl might also be generated by facing a hollow area in a rock face. Just some things to consider for those out looking for the creature. A history or location of unused mines might be of value if the mine has been shut down for several decades, or a century, or more.

 

 

Hi Hiflier,

 

This report may be of some interest to you.

http://www.oregonbigfoot.com/report_detail.php?id=00036

 

Here's another about some BLM guys that had a sighting at the exact location. You'll have to scroll through the report.

http://www.oregonbigfoot.com/report_detail.php?id=00021

 

Here is some photos of the cave/rock shelter.

 

 

 

 

Here is a snapshot of a cougar I got when I set my game camera in the inside of the cave/rock shelter facing out towards the entrance to capture whatever is coming in.

 

[hiflier]

Hello CMBigfoot,

 

Beautiful animal- congratulations on a well placed cam! I think caves and Sasquatch to be a real connection. I can only say that many caves remain undiscovered especially in dense unused areas forest or mountainous terrain. Of course not all caves will show sign so which ones get looked at depends on several things:

 

1) Frequency of sightings.

2) The terrain of sightings. Mountainous could place the cave closer to the encounter.

3) The aggressiveness of the animal.

4) The season in which one looks.

5) Possibly the bat population.

6) An encounter involving a bad smell.

[BigTreeWalker]

CM, it's a good thing you didn't run into that cougar when you were placing your cam.

Hiflier, I agree that certain caves would be good for sheltering in. Heck, they've been used by primitive people for millenia. There's no way we could even begin to know how many shelters of this type may be available in rugged forested areas.

When I was trying to locate the tree knocker in my knocking experience, I located a cave of sorts where two huge boulders came together on a ridge. Didn't give it much thought at the time and didn't have a flashlight with me if I had.

The assumed bigfoot elk kills that we found in our research, showed evidence that they were killed and eaten where we found them and not carried there afterwards. Also, if what we found are actual BF feeding sites, the disarticulated bones would have to be carried out in a pile and not slung over a shoulder as you mentioned. Remember, disarticulation is a major part of our discovery. It's not like a cougar kill in which the skeleton remains intact until much later in the decay process.

[CMBigfoot]

I think this report of a cave stacked with bones is the same cave.

 

http://www.oregonbigfoot.com/report_detail.php?id=00329