For Those Of Us Who Don't Think Sasquatch Is Genus Homo...

[Guest DWA]

^^^Exactly.  Could not be more.  Exactly.

 

 

I am shocked by the enormity of the find.

Feet found complete, in articulation.

 

That kind of thing.

 

I expect there are many more sitting under ground.

Oh, there are really cool technical aspects of it.  It's just that not even those surprise me; they're always well within the range of possibility.

[WSA]

Agreed Drew. The mere fact that entire segments of the skeletons can be rearticulated is something very rare.

 

The dating of the find seems to be the largest obstacle to overcome though. Obviously, the argument these are ancient bones is more easily supported than the opposite conclusion. Still, you know there will be those wanting to argue that, and the chronology, according to this article, remains sketchy so far.

 

It seems that geology is the candidate to tie up the loose ends here.  If the age of the cave system can be narrowed, that might be as good as can be done, but we know too that calcite deposits accrue at a fairly predictable rate. That might be a time stamp too.

[hiflier]

Hello WSA,

....It seems that geology is the candidate to tie up the loose ends here.  If the age of the cave system can be narrowed, that might be as good as can be done, but we know too that calcite deposits accrue at a fairly predictable rate. That might be a time stamp too.

I agree. It used to be thought that fossilization of bones took millions of years but where caves are concerned calcite can create fossils from bone in as little as 10,000 years or less. I had read about this find about a year ago and the description of the cave and condition of the remains does lend to the idea that the individuals may have been washed into the cave syatem. They may have even been alive when the event occurred but that's me speculating. I also agree in that an original entrance no longer exists or has been found. Thank you DWA for this thread.

[Guest DWA]

I'd much rather we discuss stuff like this than the latest bad video/charlatan/toddstanding, wot?

 

This has much to teach us about the way we think about this topic.  Glad for all the chime-in.

I'd hope it keeps up.  There's still a lot to discuss.

[hiflier]

Hello DWA,

Yes indeed. I would much rather discuss these kinds of things as well. And as difficult as this is for me to say This find was something that a year ago I just couldn't throw onto the North American pile and I think all know why. It is of course one more very apparent line of Homo to add to all the others that for some reason surround North America but don't quite make it here.

What it does do though is tell me that with all that's been discovered in NA so far there's much more to be done. I think targeting the West Coast is of the utmost importance which is why I keep bringing up the sand hills in Santa Cruz, California. And you know? I'm absolutely convinced that I'm not the only one who thinks so and that the idea has been around for a long time. The Paleo's need to dig deeper there and maybe they are. It's always best to not raise one's hand until there's something to show.

On that note I might give Mike Rugg at the Bigfoot Discovery Museum a call today and see if there's any good news on the fossil tooth front. For Sasquatch proponents this is one of those little somethings that can't be left to fall by the wayside.

Edited September 10, 2015 by hiflier

[Cotter]

I'm wondering if an effort shouldn't be put into exploring some of the more remote lava tubes in the PNW......if BF does dispose of their bodies, a trove of fossils could be out there!

[Guest DWA]

"Though the heyday of fossil hunting there was long past, the cavers knew that a scientist in Johannesburg was looking for bones. The odds of happening upon something were remote. But you never know."

 

Here it is, happening in South Africa, looking for something *for which there was zero evidence.*  In NA, recreational cavers, of whom there are many, could be keeping a weather eye out for something *for which there is much evidence.*

 

No-brainer.

 

One would think.

[hiflier]

Hello Cotter,
 

I'm wondering if an effort shouldn't be put into exploring some of the more remote lava tubes in the PNW......if BF does dispose of their bodies, a trove of fossils could be out there!

DWA, I apologize but Cotter's thought needs support and so I will lob my two rocks into the camp:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channeled_Scablands

"The term scabland refers to an area that has experienced fluvial erosion resulting in the loss of loess and other soils, leaving the land barren. River valleys formed by erosional downcutting of rivers create V-shaped valleys, while glaciers carve out U-shaped valleys. The Channeled Scablands have a rectangular cross section, with flat plateaus and steep canyon sides, and are spread over immense areas of eastern Washington. The morphology of the scablands is butte-and-basin. The area that encompasses the Scablands has been estimated between 1,500 and 2,000 square miles (3,900 and 5,200 km2), though those estimates still may be too conservative.

They exhibit a unique drainage pattern that appears to have an entrance in the northeast and an exit in the southwest. The Cordilleran Ice Sheet dammed up Glacial Lake Missoula at the Purcell Trench Lobe. A series of floods occurring over the period of 18,000 and 13,000 years ago swept over the landscape when the ice dam broke. The eroded channels also show an anastomosing, or braided, appearance."

 

Now.......just when did those Humans get here? Did these floods wash Sasquatch into canyons, caves, lava tubes? This is going to carry a huge price tag to dig this whole area up.

 

And now back to the program.

Edited September 10, 2015 by hiflier

[WSA]

Yup hiflier, the Channel Islands, Catalina especially, might possibly have bones to give up.

 

I was reminded of this while watching some Discovery or History Channel pseudo-doc on "Finding Giants", or something like it earlier this week. I remember reading years ago about an amateur archaeologist who excavated tons of native skeletons in the 20's and 30's, but who had very sloppy methods and record keeping habits. The show was going back through his archives, and they were a bit of a jumble.  Still, they showed a note from one of his field notebooks regarding a " 28 inch-long femur."  I am 6' 1", and 28" from my hip joint is somewhere near the lower part of my shin! 

 

It looks like they've ruled out alluvial deposits in the floor of the cave where the bones were found in S.Africa. More is the mystery.  My guess is that the "Superman" passage once much more accessible, but that geologic pressures had constricted it down to its present opening. If so, this truly is a one-in-a-trillion time capsule of early hominids/noids.

Edited September 10, 2015 by WSA

[hiflier]

Hello WSA,

 

Quite possible the Superman section has been gradually closing. A reasonably sized earthquake in the area in the recent past and the discovery may never have occurred. Who wants to get the message out to PacNW spelunkers if they don't already have it? Have there been discoveries no one knows about publicly yet? Now there's a question that shouldn't be asked here.

 

I'm being particularly ornery today

Edited September 10, 2015 by hiflier

[WSA]

Here's the link to the show's page.

 

http://www.history.com/shows/search-for-the-lost-giants/about

 

As is typical with these kinds of programs, there were leaps of logic that would take your breath away, but for a discerning viewer with a finely tuned b.s. meter, there were some true insights to be had.

I know the discovery of previously sealed caves and passages are still happening.  This cave in S. Africa a case in point, and one already explored. I knew a caver in N.AL, while visiting a very well visited cave found a full Paleolithic  Indian skeleton not too far from the entrance. It had been overlooked by thousands of cavers over the years. 

[Cotter]

Hello Cotter,

 

I'm wondering if an effort shouldn't be put into exploring some of the more remote lava tubes in the PNW......if BF does dispose of their bodies, a trove of fossils could be out there!

DWA, I apologize but Cotter's thought needs support and so I will lob my two rocks into the camp:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Channeled_Scablands

"The term scabland refers to an area that has experienced fluvial erosion resulting in the loss of loess and other soils, leaving the land barren. River valleys formed by erosional downcutting of rivers create V-shaped valleys, while glaciers carve out U-shaped valleys. The Channeled Scablands have a rectangular cross section, with flat plateaus and steep canyon sides, and are spread over immense areas of eastern Washington. The morphology of the scablands is butte-and-basin. The area that encompasses the Scablands has been estimated between 1,500 and 2,000 square miles (3,900 and 5,200 km2), though those estimates still may be too conservative.

They exhibit a unique drainage pattern that appears to have an entrance in the northeast and an exit in the southwest. The Cordilleran Ice Sheet dammed up Glacial Lake Missoula at the Purcell Trench Lobe. A series of floods occurring over the period of 18,000 and 13,000 years ago swept over the landscape when the ice dam broke. The eroded channels also show an anastomosing, or braided, appearance."

 

Now.......just when did those Humans get here? Did these floods wash Sasquatch into canyons, caves, lava tubes? This is going to carry a huge price tag to dig this whole area up.

 

And now back to the program.

 

I'd be more interested in the deposits made AFTER the big flood.  Assuming that BF populations were still in the area and may have discarded bodies in a tube or two.

[Guest Stan Norton]

Everything fits with Darwinian evolution.

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

It occurred to me just now that most of these new findings are categorized based on physiology alone. If we had its DNA, we'd be able to locate it a lot more accurately on the tree of life like we did with the neanderthals.

[Patterson-Gimlin]

I read that last night. I was impressed. This type of evidence is much more interesting than speculation.

As I said in another thread ,perhaps  just perhaps Bigfoot bury their dead and no wonder we can't find them.