Avoiding Human Contact? Or Not?

[BigTreeWalker]

Catmandoo, I sent you a PM. However, accessible links to those papers would be appreciated.

Since we know absolutely nothing about the makeup of BF eyes, a few specifics about the point you were trying to make about IR would also be appreciated.

Here's a link to an interesting article on the variation of light in different environments:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982213012608

There are even a couple primates and their adaptations mentioned. IR is the prominent light source on starlit nights.

As the sun or moon sets further, the blue twilight fades and, if both bodies are absent, is replaced by a dimmer and redder light: this light comes from the stars (particularly those we cannot see, which are dominated by red dwarfs emitting long wavelength light), and from airglow

Right now we don't know what BF eyes can see or how they would perceive IR radiation. I know bears can spot cams before they walk in front of them. I have evidence of this with my cams. So what it boils down to is whether they choose to avoid them or not.

[Catmandoo]

BigTreeWalker.

I have been busy and just saw this post. I will go through my notes and try to put something together.

The above link in your post is about aquatic animals. The graphs are charting illumination with photons per square centimeter. Not much light there. I have seen a photograph of a single photon, back in the 70's. Interesting side story.

Here are 2 citations that discuss cone vision:

American Journal of Primatology 59:67-91 (2003), Research Article, Colors of Primate Pelage and Skin: Objective Assessment of Conspicuousness. Petroc Sumner & J.D. Mollon.

Clin Exp Optom 2004; 87: 4-5: 230-238 Ecology and evolution of primate colour vision. Misha Vorobyev PhD.

That will get you started. I have more references.

Sometimes access to Journal articles costs money. That is the way it is. It gets spendy.

I have bears looking at the camo I use to cover my game cams. I never use bear boxes.

[Twist]

Catmandoo, I would like to know more about the visible spectrum of various animals.  By chance, what is you field of profession, I'm assuming it has to do with this subject?

[BigTreeWalker]

The first part of that article I posted is about forest environments and a couple of primates are mentioned there.

I don't use bear boxes either. And when they approach a camera from behind all they are going to see is a strap. Our nothing at all if I use one of my screw mounts. I couldn't say at what point they see the cameras but I have had them move it before they get in front of it. Or I might get a picture of just fur if they don't get in front of it. The most interesting ones are when the camera moves and you have no idea what did it.

[Catmandoo]

Twist Animal vision is complicated and you will have to Google the respective animals color vision. There are good articles on Deer vision at the 'Atsko' web site. Research Journals have many articles on the evolution of vision, testing of vertebrates and non-vertebrates. Some info is free & some are pay-per-download.

I am a trade worker. I do not have any degrees or certifications. I might be certifiable though. I am house trained. Decades ago I had training in camera operation, black & white developing and printing and color printing. I do not watch TV or sports. I do a lot of research and have trick tools and meters. I do weird science. I try to do weird science everyday. If there was a degree program in weird science, I would be teaching. Stay tuned.

[Catmandoo]

BigTreeWalker. Color and shape of game cams is a big problem. In the forest 'early/late' light conditions have the residents shifting their vision from scotopic--mesopic--photopic (early, reversed for late). Their best dark adapted vision shifts from greenish-blue to greenish-yellow. I believe that we can not imitate a 'biological' green color during this transition and a 'green' plastic box is way too out of place. The phony camo on game cams looks suspicious. We paint our housings grey, black and brown or put camo fabric over them.

[Catmandoo]

I an having posting problems. I put the blame on Win 8.1. Some listings of articles that are interesting: Atsko website; 'How game animals see and smell.

"Pupil shapes and lens optics in the eyes of terrestrial vertebrates" Tim Malmstrom and Ronald H.H. Kroger. The Journal of Experimental Biology 209,18-25 (2006).

"Multifocal lenses compensate for chromatic defocus in vertebrate eyes" R.H.H. Kroger, M.C.W. Campbell, R.D.Fernald, H.- J. Wagner J Comp Physiol A (1999) 184:361-369.

"Nocturnal colour vision-not as rare as we might think" Almut Kelber and Lina S.V. Roth. The Journal of Experimental Biology 209, 781-788 (2006).

No animals have infrared vision. Many have thousands more sensitivity levels for nocturnal vision than humans.

[Catmandoo]

Still having posting problems. Test post with chart. Moon and planetary illuminance chart shows what hits Earth. Check the wavelength 555nm. Many animals like that wavelength at night. Notice that there is no light coming from Uranus. Not sure why but in that area of the Gas Giants and Ice Giants, the planetary Methane is notable. 4% planetary composition of methane is a lot. Perhaps the methane has something to do with reflectance, absorbtion and emissivity of sunlight. The chart is from Bond & Henderson, 1963.

above post to be edited that I forgot Neptune as an Ice Giant that does not send light to Earth.

[JDL]

I have learned that Uranus reflects no light, but has plentiful methane.

Edited December 8, 2015 by JDL

[BigTreeWalker]

I have used game cams a lot. I know how visible they are. I also know that over 50% of the time animals know where they are. I don't know how animal night vision sees them at night. But I do know that when I look at a cam with a night vision scope it sticks out like a sore thumb. It's a black box regardless of what's painted on the outside.

From the research I have read, we know about the differences in animal eye makeup. But that same research says we need to do more study. We don't know everything about about animal night vision. The research supports that statement.

[southernyahoo]

Catmandoo, I sent you a PM. However, accessible links to those papers would be appreciated.

Since we know absolutely nothing about the makeup of BF eyes, a few specifics about the point you were trying to make about IR would also be appreciated.

Here's a link to an interesting article on the variation of light in different environments:

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982213012608

There are even a couple primates and their adaptations mentioned. IR is the prominent light source on starlit nights.

As the sun or moon sets further, the blue twilight fades and, if both bodies are absent, is replaced by a dimmer and redder light: this light comes from the stars (particularly those we cannot see, which are dominated by red dwarfs emitting long wavelength light), and from airglow

Right now we don't know what BF eyes can see or how they would perceive IR radiation. I know bears can spot cams before they walk in front of them. I have evidence of this with my cams. So what it boils down to is whether they choose to avoid them or not.

 

 

Bears can smell them, and love the petroleum taste of plastic. We do know that the cams don't emit any light before they are triggered since that is done with a PIR sensor that picks up the IR radiation from warm blooded animals. Even if the animals out there could detect them in various ways, there's still no reason to stay out of the trigger zone unless they somehow understand the face with the lens represents our eye and they have a strong desire to not be seen by it.

 

 

The trail cam has to be designed to eliminate most false triggers, so there has to be a threshold of heat and motion to trigger them. How the cameras are engineered to trigger and how the cameras are approached by animals may hold some answers to the result of no pics.  

[BigTreeWalker]

I know enough about trail cams to not even think the passive IR has anything to do with them being seen. When something sticks it's nose against a camera it triggers it from the movement alone. And it doesn't have to walk in front of them to trigger, if whatever just moves the camera. Then all it boils down to is whether they want to avoid it or not which is what this thread is all about.

And I still haven't seen anything but talk as to whether BF can see the flash or not even if they are colorblind. Not all cams are the long wavelength IR. Since I can see the shorter wavelength,but whose to say anything with good night vision can't.

You set off a white flash in the woods and see how far it can be seen. Let me answer that, over a hundred yards. Do any of you have a pet BF to try the IR on?

[Incorrigible1]

 Do any of you have a pet BF to try the IR on?

Several here have claimed amazing interactions, over the years. The surest way to offend them to feigned outrage is to ask for a modicum of evidence of their fantastic claims. Happens every time.

[ShadowBorn]

 

 Do any of you have a pet BF to try the IR on?

Several here have claimed amazing interactions, over the years. The surest way to offend them to feigned outrage is to ask for a modicum of evidence of their fantastic claims. Happens every time.

 

Lets see here Incorrigible1, I have posted proof only to be mocked at. I have made incredible explanations to what I have observed and encountered only to be proven by others. Others who have made the same observations as myself who I have never made contacted with until now.

 

So your accusations is total bull about being offended, as far as proof it is out there and all you have to do is search for it your self if you want evidence. The more you push this issue of them not being real the less likely people will ignore it. No one needs to show proof to anyone and not even on demand. The proof is theirs or even mine and if it is to remain a secret well then that to D*mn bad. 

 

If these creatures want to remain unknown to whom they choose too then who are we. Who are we to say no to them who have more freedom then we will ever have. Us as Humans may learn some thing from them since they live in a structure that does not compare to us. We may learn some thing from them by their actions. In my opinion I believe that you are wrong by dealing with this subject with a closed mind and by demands.

 

Science is discovering new ideas and going with it, while being opened minded. We have to be opened minded to all possibilities in order for science to work. science is discovery and discovery leads to science.