Bluff & Blue Creek Northern Ca 1958-1969

[Guest]

I suppose the best way to get a good answer would be to ask your questions of those who failed to investigate back then. I imagine many are still alive.

Indeed...perhaps someone should shoot such a question Mr Green's way.

[Guest]

You simply haven't done your homework. Don Abbott contacted several zoologists from Humboldt State University in Arcata to examine prints claimed to from Bigfoot at the end of August 1967 which they did and concluded were fake. Even going back to 1958 tracks were investigated by the local sherriff's office which fingered Ray Wallace as the perpetrator. He denied it at the time, of course, decades before the stompers were shown by remaining family members after he died.

The stompers that have never been shown to have produced a single field track whatsoever (and indeed have been shown NOT to resemble legitimate BF tracks), produced by a family that has attempted to solicit others to lie about Ray to support their story, and who were entirely unable to use the claimed stompers to produce a creditable trackway using the methods claimed.

Need a new record, Kita...this argument's got such a stuck groove that it's almost scored all the way through the vinyl...

[Guest]

Excellent - you're using BFRO as a source that should have some reliability...

I'll use the same Bigfoot enthusiast source you did...

Ad homming the source once again with a perjorative and an (allegedly) humorous captioned image.

Chris Murphy - Bigfoot Film Journal, p.38

So who dropped that chalupa, Murphy or Gimlin? Either way, one of those two can't get their stories straight.

Now we're arguing about horse names...who gives a frak about who rode what horse when? It's a minor, insignificant detail that has NOTHING to do with the BF creature filmed.

It's like saying that because they didn't accurately state what color underwear they were wearing that they therefore must be hoaxing.

Lame...lame...lame argument, Kita.

If Roger went on a merry sponsored trek with his brother down to Bluff Creek on Ford and JB Hunt's dime sometime after the PGF was filmed, so what? This was exactly what Roger wanted to do - make his living chasing Bigfoot. If he is asked to go back, or he suggestes it, it is all for the better for supporting his claim. Think like a hoaxer. What does he have to lose?

If he was really serious about a real Bigfoot there, instead of ripping off to Hollywood to make Bigfoot Enterprises and cash in, he could have used the support he had from Al DeAtley to track the creature down immediately when it left huge tracks, moved decidely unhurriedly, and was said to stink horribly.

Could it be that he (perhaps naively) thought he HAD the proof he needed? That he wasn't thinking like a Skeptic demanding "slab monkey or nothing"? That he was a normal, reasonable person who doesn't subscribe to the absolutist demands of so-called "scientists"?

Nah...couldn't be that...

[Guest]

Green stated that the zoologists did not have enough to go on to make an opinion. I would rather not rely on Green's word about their opinions. What is clear from Green's book is that after examining the tracks, including what Don Abbott preserved, those zoologists argued to Abbott, a cultural anthropologist, that they were not real. Bigfoot chasers said yes, zoologists said no.

Would these be members of the same zoological community who attempted to dismiss the PGF on the basis of "it MUST be a hoax because it cannot be real"? As has been documented as being a position still held today?

[17x7]

When it comes to why nobody did much, you have to remember that we have the benefit of hindsight.

WE know that there were a pile of sightings (or at least claimed sightings) in a few years. WE also know that soon after, the sightings dropped off and became rare. WE know that this sparked a huge mystery that would go unanswered for decades.

THEY didn't know that was going to happen. From their perspective, something new had just been discovered and was suddenly seemingly everywhere. You could find tracks at will. Everybody around had either seen one, or at least the tracks. Shoot, some guy riding horses even got pictures of one on his movie camera while riding around. Seems like only a matter of time and somebody will have captured one or figured out what is going on. Doesn't seem like there is any big hurry. Whatever they are, the dumb things seem to be everywhere. If nobody has caught one by next summer, maybe we'll go look around. Who knows? Maybe we'll get lucky. After all, how hard can it be to find one of those whatever-they-are's?

Hindsight gives us a very different perspective.

17x7

[Huntster]

There was never any need for anyone from wildlife management to get involved. Local law enforcement had they right people pegged from the beginning...

Law enforcement investigate crimes. If there was a hoax involving financial enrichment, there should have been an arrest.

There wasn't.

Wildlife management agencies manage wildlife species, of which the footprints indicated existed.

Get a logging truck with a Bigfoot in the grill and they'd have some wildlife to manage.

Get a logging truck with a Bigfoot in the grill and they'd have some wild death to wake their sorry a$$e$ up with, and had they been managing all along, we might have more of them to hit with trucks.

Sing it soprano all you like, it will always be to the choir.

This choir appreciates good music.

[Huntster]

Huntster, on 10 May 2011 - 05:32 AM, said:

I consider this especially so with regard to the California Dept. of Fish and Game. In all the references to Patty, the PG film, Patterson, Jerry Crew, et al, there is no mention whatsoever of a visit, interview, phone call, happenstance meeting with a biologist in the area, nothing. They are more elusive than the sasquatches themselves.

With regard to the Dept. of Fish and Game (California, or any other state, for that matter), there still isn't enough interest for them to even issue a policy statement. They are as absent today as they were in 1958-1967.

Huntster, do you know if they were ever officially notified at the time? Or are you assuming they would have read the newspaper reports and acted proactively?

I do not know if they were notified by anyone. If I was an independent researcher investing money into an effort to find such a creature, the last person I'd notify would be the area biologist for the department. That's somebody who can put you in straits with regard to your efforts. That would be like a vigilante notifying the police of a crime before going after the killer himself.

I suspect department area biologists read newspapers. I did at that time. If I knew about it at the time, living 700 miles away and a mere teenager, I suspect the area biologist did. The Jerry Crew story and the Patterson story went around the world in short order. To fail to act in any capacity whatsoever (interview witnesses, check out the scene, talk with independent investigators, etc) is a clear indication of either individual negligence (I doubt this, since it is a pattern throughout the industry), or group negligence, or maybe even official discouragement.

[Guest]

Okay first of all this isn't about the PGF its about that area (film section for PGF). Even if you don't support that footage " the golden opportunity of the this field was not taken advantage of short of that 90 seconds of PGF that is IMO

In a span of 12 years they had at least 60 related incidents in Bluff & Blue Creek alone. Plus all the other surrounding areas with their own reports.

So why did the people back then do nothing? and why wait until Rodger & Bob to show up in 67 with a camera? Jeez eleven years after the reports started coming in on a regular basis and being recorded. So who knows the actual number of occurences before they started keeping track?

So I got to ask where were the big game hunters and adventurers of that time ? or were they too scared to try and hunt them since they seemed numerous as Rodger and Bob were affraid when filming??

So didn't anyone or a group try to bag one? Sure guys like Rene, Bob, John and Rodger snooped around a bit but they seemed more interested in getting their film to print, collecting casts and making a dead line. Did they not realize the golden opportunity of trying to bag one with all the reports?? Surely they must of realized a family of Sasq lived near by with all the tracks etc.

Just think of where this field of study and interest would be if someone back then hunted one down and brought one back !Anyone else thinking this in hind sight considering the very high density of reports of that area back then?

My thoughts exactly... :

[norseman]

Yea I didn't see any mention of Sasquatch? Kind of odd ? Since these corporations and gov bodies were kissing the FN butts big time for years to use their heritage inc Sasquatch to lure and host the 2010 Olympics. I have another name for corporations and gov's and people that do that.??

Anyways back on track we go, Can anyone dig up info on expeditions into the Bluff Creek area in the 60's? yes even after PGF will count. All i could find was a few miles of tracking then calling it quits and leaving the area entirely.

O'well we didn't see anything during the day, time to head back to the city. nice effort

JMO tracker

Yah well, like I said my post was eaten by the internet gods......

Basically without rewriting the whole thing, the crux was, Bluff creek was a hot area 40-50 years ago. So is Washington state, but this has less to do with Squatch than it does with people.

Map:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bigfoot_Sightings_in_USA.png

I think it's smart to concentrate on areas that seem to be good habitat (like the link I provided you) and yet have low populations of humans.

[Guest BuzzardEater]

Tracker, I agree this doesn't look right. In a field where obfusication by authorities is par for the course I wonder if it isn't sensible to assume an investigation was done, but not publicized? It has become my position that BF is not undiscovered. Numerous serious inquiries must certainly have taken place over the years without yielding published results. Just saying...?

[Guest tracker]

Hey thanks guys for your quotes

When Goodall goes half way around the world to study a rumered ape. And not one scientist does the same in our own backyard in CA somethings wrong. I give tons of credit to Roger, Bob, Green and others that kept checking in on that area. But quite frankly they were out of their league with dealing with huge unknown primates.

Don't get me wrong if anyone from those days reads this, you guys are legends. But what we could of used after PGF was pro hunter & pro tracker and a few scientist. Byrne's, Krantz working with Roger, John and good old Bob and i'll be the tracker

Edited May 11, 2011 by tracker

[Guest Bigfoothunter]

Larry Battson has been asked to speak on the Sasquatch in front of different groups hosted by the Fish and Game people in the US ... all in recent years.

Bill

Bigfoot Field Research

[BobZenor]

I doubt that many people would have the skill to actually get a shot at one without some luck. I would be shocked if there were a way to prove it and nobody did go hunting for them there. The terrain in that area is not easy to traverse. I have spent hours trying to walk a mile in some that. Much of it is too steep and inaccessible to even contemplate for a sane man and I was in extremely good shape and fresh out of the infantry. I also grew up spending most of my time in mountainous wilderness. I used to walk 10 miles a day on steep trails to get ready for my Bluff Creek expeditions even though that was largely because of the long walk required out of the area if my vehicle got stuck. I think it would be foolish to drive somewhere where you couldn't walk out of in case of emergency.

We had both of what I now think were probably real encounters on the same day. Something freaked me out by bolting like a large deer and then vanishing without a trace and nowhere to go in the matter of less than 2 seconds it took me to get to the edge of the road. That isn't how deer act. I did get the whiff of something that smelled gamey or like BO. It was obvious but rather faint. We then camped well up the hill to get away from that and ended being right above the PGF site when something huge walked very slowly up on our camp right after I was yelling and carrying on because a mouse bit me in my sleeping bag. I have been there almost every year up until a few years ago since the mid 80's but haven't had any other encounters. Dfoot also said he had an encounter the same year at Bluff Creek. That was before he decided he could make money by creating a fake Patty. That all made me suspect that they are like hunter gatherers and visit specific areas every several years. They are probably extended family groups and vacated the area for happier hunting grounds. Patterson and Gimlin were likely enough to cause the whole clan to move to somewhere more isoated. Just north of there up to at least Oregon caves certainly qualifies. They could also have went west into the lower forests nearer the ocean.

[Huntster]

Larry Battson has been asked to speak on the Sasquatch in front of different groups hosted by the Fish and Game people in the US ... all in recent years.

The key words being, "all in recent years". And his message is one of belief, too.

That is a good sign. Hopefully it will bear some fruit.

[Guest tracker]

I doubt that many people would have the skill to actually get a shot at one without some luck. Yea you would need some luck to get a vital tag without hitting a branch in the dark. This isn't the thread for this but I think they are much heavier than we estimate x2 maybe? The weight depends on age, sex and region IMO

We had both of what I now think were probably real encounters on the same day. Something freaked me out by bolting like a large deer and then vanishing without a trace and nowhere to go in the matter of less than 2 seconds it took me to get to the edge of the road. That isn't how deer act. I did get the whiff of something that smelled gamey or like BO. It was obvious but rather faint. We then camped well up the hill to get away from that and ended being right above the PGF site when something huge walked very slowly up on our camp right after I was yelling and carrying on because a mouse bit me in my sleeping bag. I have been there almost every year up until a few years ago since the mid 80's but haven't had any other encounters. Dfoot also said he had an encounter the same year at Bluff Creek. What another encounter with a mouse? Since this happened @ BC can you give us more detail about the encounters with possible Bf's (not the mouse)

That all made me suspect that they are like hunter gatherers and visit specific areas every several years. They are probably extended family groups and vacated the area for happier hunting grounds. Patterson and Gimlin were likely enough to cause the whole clan to move to somewhere more isoated. Just north of there up to at least Oregon caves certainly qualifies. They could also have went west into the lower forests nearer the ocean. There was still some action after PGF but i agree they bailed on BC and searched out a safer place to live with less human activity. Still though I bet they do wandered through that area checking on it. Just like were finally getting some action back in Ape Canyon again. You may have had a near miss with Patty's offspring?

JMO as always. tracker