Guest ChasingRabbits Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 I get that industries, such as forestry are big business and there has always been the belief that BF would devastate them if known to be true, which leads to all forestry workers being threatened with their job if they talk. To me I believe this is a conspiracy to help perpetuate the myth why they do not speak about them. Forestry work is hard manual labor, any hard manual labor job goes thru employees, some come in and don't cut it, this means there are a lot that leave the industry. What is keeping them from speaking on BF, they no longer fear losing their job. What's the next reason, they fear the black SUV's rolling up if they speak? First of all logging is pretty automated now. While trees are still cut with chain saws most all the handling is done with heavy equipment. So there is not a lot of unskilled manual labor any more. And in this area, the unskilled stuff like replanting is done by Mexican crews. They are not going to run around shooting their mouth off when most are probably illegals. Then there is the natural tendency of people, even BF researchers, not to be honest about what they are doing out there in the woods. Only one of my neighbors knows what I do in the woods, and he all but said he thinks I must be nuts, because BF is not accepted to exist by science. So loggers are faced with that same social pressures not to talk about what they see. Oh they probably talk among themselves like we do but not to the general public. Most of us fear our sanity being questioned more than government black SUV's. well according the following article, they are actually in demand of up to 20k forestry workers by 2020 "https://www2.viu.ca/forestry/Careers/Forestry-in-BC.asp" And by your account, trees are cut by chainsaw (human operated), and are picked up via heavy equipment (operated by humans) Where is the automation? As far as I know, and feel free to correct me ( I love learning knew things ) there are no "automated" machines that cut and collect trees on a mountain side. We are still using humans or human operated apparatus to cut a log and a human apparatus to collect the log. According to "http://www.fao.org/docrep/013/i1757e/i1757e.pdf" There were 234,000 forestry employees in N.A and Central America. Sure, some of those are not in the "BF" area as we know it, but even a percentage of that still constitute a large number of people that could report a BF. If they are covered up by forestry workers as we are lead to believe. Are we really to believe that, out of that many people, none of them, based on fear of future employment, come forward to admit that big business, aka forestry, has threatened their life and or livelihood? Read about Karen Silkwood and other whistle blowers.
Guest Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 Have you read H.V. Hart's analysis of Dr. Ketchum's study? “You have attributed conditions to villainy that simply result from stupidity.†― Robert A. Heinlein I have permission from Admin (reciprocity) to mention my blog: bigfootclaims.BlogSpot.com where I present much more work on interpreting the Ketchum results and conclusions. I hope those interested in a serious scientific discussion will look into this. Criticism and comments always welcome and requested. Haskell Hart
SWWASAS Posted December 23, 2015 BFF Patron Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) I get that industries, such as forestry are big business and there has always been the belief that BF would devastate them if known to be true, which leads to all forestry workers being threatened with their job if they talk. To me I believe this is a conspiracy to help perpetuate the myth why they do not speak about them. Forestry work is hard manual labor, any hard manual labor job goes thru employees, some come in and don't cut it, this means there are a lot that leave the industry. What is keeping them from speaking on BF, they no longer fear losing their job. What's the next reason, they fear the black SUV's rolling up if they speak? First of all logging is pretty automated now. While trees are still cut with chain saws most all the handling is done with heavy equipment. So there is not a lot of unskilled manual labor any more. And in this area, the unskilled stuff like replanting is done by Mexican crews. They are not going to run around shooting their mouth off when most are probably illegals. Then there is the natural tendency of people, even BF researchers, not to be honest about what they are doing out there in the woods. Only one of my neighbors knows what I do in the woods, and he all but said he thinks I must be nuts, because BF is not accepted to exist by science. So loggers are faced with that same social pressures not to talk about what they see. Oh they probably talk among themselves like we do but not to the general public. Most of us fear our sanity being questioned more than government black SUV's. well according the following article, they are actually in demand of up to 20k forestry workers by 2020 "https://www2.viu.ca/forestry/Careers/Forestry-in-BC.asp" And by your account, trees are cut by chainsaw (human operated), and are picked up via heavy equipment (operated by humans) Where is the automation? As far as I know, and feel free to correct me ( I love learning knew things ) there are no "automated" machines that cut and collect trees on a mountain side. We are still using humans or human operated apparatus to cut a log and a human apparatus to collect the log. According to "http://www.fao.org/docrep/013/i1757e/i1757e.pdf" There were 234,000 forestry employees in N.A and Central America. Sure, some of those are not in the "BF" area as we know it, but even a percentage of that still constitute a large number of people that could report a BF. If they are covered up by forestry workers as we are lead to believe. Are we really to believe that, out of that many people, none of them, based on fear of future employment, come forward to admit that big business, aka forestry, has threatened their life and or livelihood? I thought about not answering you but perhaps a lot of people do not live in logging country. A heavy equipment operator is not a manual laborer. Trees use to be climbed, limbs cut off by a logger, before the tree was cut down. Those limbs not cut off before felling were cut off by a logger with a chain saw as the tree lay on the ground. Tedious and dangerous work. The logs were picked up with a loader and put on the logging truck. Now the tree is cut down, sometimes by heavy machinery, it is picked up with a machine that trims off the limbs like corn off a cob, and it is placed in a pile for pickup by a loader to place on a truck. Much of what humans used to do is done by machines. Your references are to BC. Do you know that most of the lumber we use in the United States now comes from Canada? That is why BC needs loggers. Logging on public lands in the US is very restricted. Only private and some state lands have much logging at all and if you visit the Ports in Oregon and Washington and you will see acres and acres of logs headed for China on ships. We ship them logs, they make lumber, and chopsticks and ship them back. Many of the rural counties in Washington and Oregon that used to be thriving logging communities are now very poor. Some have had to fire everyone in their Sheriff department because they cannot afford to pay them. Hundreds of lumber mills have closed and unemployment in those counties is 30 to 40% all because the US and State government will not allow even sustainable logging on public lands. Your shortage of loggers may exist in Canada but not the US. Edited December 23, 2015 by SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT
Guest Crowlogic Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 Hello All, I used the words explosive and greed in the same post. Shouldn't be hard to fill in the blanks. If Sasquatch is discovered to be officially real by science then the natural resource industries' money flow will be bottle-necked. So many discussions on this Forum mention not telling anyone if a body is found as it will be confiscated, disappear, and never made public. Most will disagree with me on the next point: Dr. Melba Ketchum tested and got the real thing but backed off for reasons yet to be known. I think she knew the negative economic, political, and industrial impact of such a find and so stopped short. No one was going top peer review her work in any scientific journals for the same reasons. There isn't any doubt in my mind that this is true. Proof would be economically explosive. Period. And would send ripples through the wood and fuel extraction industries along with all the other activities both recreational and otherwise. It really is all about the money so If Sasquatch exists- which I think it does- then I simply do not trust the industries that are working in the same areas where the creatures are. I think that the creatures therefore are at tremendous risk if anyone thought there was potential knowledge of the animal's existence. This is my stance on the matter and it's why I push for a body for science. Not to halt industry because thousands of families depend on them for their livelihoods. It's to keep the local populations that inhabit the same areas the resource industries are operating in from eradication by those very industries in order to protect their profits. Yep, I sound like a crackpot. I don't care. I don't for a minute trust those outfits to not touch a hair on that creature's head. Truth be known I think the opposite has been happening and Sasquatch is real trouble. Rant over....off soapbox....apologies for being off topic. Why do you think at this stage of the game industry or the general public is going to care if the species gets eradicated. I'm sure there are lot's of soccer moms who would sigh in relief if confirmed bigfoot was eradicated. It would make their precious darling children safer. We've passed the tipping point where the natural world is going to survive.
hiflier Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) Hello Crowlogic, Good points there. The general public at large will care about what's generally fed to them. Also the public at large will cry over a cartoon deer's mother being shot dead before it cries over a real dead Human which we see on the media from time to time. You could cherry pick that to show I'm wrong but GENERALLY it's true. If the general public was constantly fed by mainstream media that children are dying of starvation instead of the political candidate mumbo-jumbo then the general public's mindset would change. But I don't have to tell you that 'cause you're already pretty smart. But here's the thing, my friend, IF Bigfoot were to be proved to exist and it was being eradicated would YOU care? Edited December 23, 2015 by hiflier
JDL Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 Who anywhere in this country is trying to eradicate any species?
Guest Crowlogic Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 Hello Crowlogic, But here's the thing, my friend, IF Bigfoot were to be proved to exist and it was being eradicated would YOU care? I would care in exactly the same fashion that I care about the rest of the natural world that's hellbound for extinction. Why should one species be any more important than any other species? Who anywhere in this country is trying to eradicate any species? Species are not intentionally eradicated except in isolated cases such as the Tasmanian Tiger and the Buffalo in the 19th Century. However species get eradicated by the willful activities of individuals and industries. If you were to be eradicated would it mean less to you if your eradication was unintentional? I doubt it.
BigTreeWalker Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 Automated logging. To me using loggers as witnesses to the existence of bigfoot is ridiculous. Unless a sasquatch wants to investigate out of curiosity, it is easy to avoid logging operations. You can hear them for miles. That being said I know there are anecdotal reports of logging and bigfoot. Northern California being a good example.
JDL Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 It's moot anyway, there's no reason to expect that bigfoot is in danger of decline when virtually every predator and prey species out there are on the rise. 1
Twist Posted December 23, 2015 Posted December 23, 2015 I thought about not answering you but perhaps a lot of people do not live in logging country. A heavy equipment operator is not a manual laborer. Trees use to be climbed, limbs cut off by a logger, before the tree was cut down. Those limbs not cut off before felling were cut off by a logger with a chain saw as the tree lay on the ground. Tedious and dangerous work. The logs were picked up with a loader and put on the logging truck. Now the tree is cut down, sometimes by heavy machinery, it is picked up with a machine that trims off the limbs like corn off a cob, and it is placed in a pile for pickup by a loader to place on a truck. Much of what humans used to do is done by machines. Your references are to BC. Do you know that most of the lumber we use in the United States now comes from Canada? That is why BC needs loggers. Logging on public lands in the US is very restricted. Only private and some state lands have much logging at all and if you visit the Ports in Oregon and Washington and you will see acres and acres of logs headed for China on ships. We ship them logs, they make lumber, and chopsticks and ship them back. Many of the rural counties in Washington and Oregon that used to be thriving logging communities are now very poor. Some have had to fire everyone in their Sheriff department because they cannot afford to pay them. Hundreds of lumber mills have closed and unemployment in those counties is 30 to 40% all because the US and State government will not allow even sustainable logging on public lands. Your shortage of loggers may exist in Canada but not the US. OK, so manual labor is not as present as it once was, my mistake but when I read your report it kind of supports my idea of ex employees even more, imo. Stating that unemployment is at 30 - 40%, would that not constitute a lot of unemployed people that could be potential whistle blowers? I do not have a figure on how many people that equates to but I would venture a guess that a percentage of them, albeit small, would be willing to talk. Do they expect the industry to come back so they are protecting themselves against rehire? Also, what concern is it if the logging is going on in WA or BC? Correct me if I am wrong ( again ) but BF is reported in most areas of North America.
SWWASAS Posted December 23, 2015 BFF Patron Posted December 23, 2015 BTW has a point about how noisy logging operations are. The ones most likely to see BF would be the logging truck drivers seeing one walk across a logging road, and certainly loggers drive the road to get to the operations and back home every night. That has a lot of potential to see things. . Not sure if the log truck drivers work for the logging companies or are independent operators. Anyway all of this is conjecture and given the natural reluctance of anyone to report a sighting, and general lack of knowledge about who to report it to, I suspect only a small percentage of sightings are reported. Now and then when I talk someone I throw out BF organization names, and well known BF personality names just to see how much those not into bigfooting know. In general unless someone is interested in the topic, they have never heard of BFRO, Olympic Project, Meldrum, or anyone associated with the topic. No wonder people are clueless about how to report a sighting. Often sightings are reported to park rangers who act interested at the time but who knows what they do with the information. I suspect it does not go beyond who it was reported to but I could be wrong on that.
Guest DWA Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 (edited) I've said this a number of times here. All one has to do to see how clueless most people are about reporting a sighting is watch incoming new reports on the BFRO database. Almost every single spate of new reports features one or more encounters that occurred in the current or immediately previous calendar year. This began right after "Finding Bigfoot" premiered. Most people have no idea whom to tell, much less who prominent Bigfooters are. Edited December 24, 2015 by DWA
Twist Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 (edited) Yeah, the drivers would be a great source. If they would talk..... I would guess regarding if they are company or owner ops. Probably most likely a mix of both. For hire trucks are easy to come by, you should only run your personal fleet at 80% of your needed capacity and sub the rest out to always move your trucks. Edited December 24, 2015 by TWlST
BigTreeWalker Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 Those drivers probably see quite a bit. But would they admit it? I remember spending time off Rd 25 to Randle, WA a couple summers ago. Every morning at about three AM the log trucks started heading up the road toward the area that was currently being logged by helicopter to the north of us to pick up their first loads of the day. This whole area is prime BF habitat.
CMBigfoot Posted December 24, 2015 Posted December 24, 2015 I think about the best time for a logger to have a sighting would probably be early in the morning when they are in the crummy on their way to the job site. The log truck drivers do see more wildlife than the loggers and they will talk to you about BF if you ask politely. Except one log truck driver in Clackamas/Marion County area. He sucker punched me in the jaw. From personal experience the best person/s to ask are the watchmen on the weekend.
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