Reasons To Be Doubtful

[Lake County Bigfooot]

Well as many of you know I claim to be a believer in Bigfoot, I claim to have heard them, and I claim

to have experienced activity, well all that being said what if I was 100% honest. Fact of the matter is

I would have to say I seriously have my doubts as to the creatures existence anywhere much less

in my surroundings here. That is an honest statement from an honest believer in this creature. I wish

I could say I have had that definitive moment, I have had moments that fostered the belief no doubt,

but like many of you I am just a believer, not a knower. I have not seen it with my own eyes, nor have

I touched it to know what I was seeing was actually real. Ok, well then why just not give up the whole

shooting match and lay the idea to rest. Well if it were that easy I sure would have liked to do it sooner,

yet I have nothing at stake in this, only more to loose by holding onto the belief, more time, energy, my

reputation, my sanity perhaps. If you are honest you might share this feeling and thought process. The

power of belief is stronger than we humans can imagine, it can make a strong man cower and a weak man

tower. I submit that such a belief, experiences or not, can cloud the mind, or make it see things that

it wants to see. So is that all this is? No, if it were just that I would be free simply by relying on the rational

mind and the facts. The rational mind is what is not letting this go, because you can see here I have

reason to desire to let it go, it is the fact that what I heard in 2013 cannot be explained, what my wife

heard also, what recordings seemed to confirm was activity, it all is compelling my rational mind to find

another explanation, so far I cannot. That is the issue. To the skeptics I say enjoy your world free of such

experiences that would force you into this quandary, but be clear that many of us are here not by our own

choice, but by circumstances that most of us wish never happened. The compulsion that accompanies those

experiences is what leads people here looking for answers. Of course many of us have not compulsion other

than we think this is entertainment. I wish I were here simply for entertainment, simply to blow off some steam

or to enjoy a good joke. I am here simply out of a compulsion to find answers to something I thought could not

exist, and honestly in many ways wish it did not.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Lake County Bigfooot

[Guest Crowlogic]

It's not a horrendously difficult thing to walk away.  If it's any consolation I was as avid a proponent as they get.  And whether anyone agrees a person is entitled to change there minds.  As a kid I saw a rather impressive trackway through a sand pit near my home.  I heard a very strange roar one night right around the same time.  It was scary it was pretty cool and I wasn't the only one who saw the tracks.  This was BTW before the advent of bigfoot but when you're 9 years old there's lots of other monsters that'll do.  In any event the region was never a bigfoot hotspot or even one where reports were made. But it was a strange sight and sound.  

 

I consider myself lucky to have been in on the bogfoot question from the beginning and lucky to be in that young adult world of college in the late 60's early 70's immersed in the pure arts and sciences.  I am a world class dreamer, an author, a musician, a technician and a science practitioner (retired).  Nobody could dream better than me, not even Roger Patterson.  In most respects I'd beat him hands down in terms of imagination.  But it was the science that most often than not kept me out of the harms way of folly.  I dreamed the bigfoot dreams, the mysterious solitary giant aloof from us new comers.  The other walking being that kept it's bargain with nature and as such nature continued to shield him from us.  Indeed it's a fantastically romantic view.  But the other half never lost sight that eventually that which has been called real must stand and deliver, to pay it's tab, to have it's dues up to date just like the rest of us.  

 

One day around 4 years ago I heard the first whisper of my rational half say "maybe it's all about nothing."  I began to watch and wait to see how the newest plots in the saga played out.  When enough of them played out in the negative and I could all but predict how the newest ones would the deal was done.  For anyone wanting to get off of the fence or define their commitment to the side of the fence they truly believe all one needs to do is look and what's been then look at what is and see if either of the two are an indication of where it's going.

 

As for the sounds you and your wife heard they can very well have sounded like what you heard.  But as with all things bigfoot there is only the word of the person presenting the evidence.  Indeed the recordings out there can sound exactly like what people think bigfoot should sound like but it doesn't make them the sound of bigfoot.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Crowlogic

[Faenor]

Mostly time

 

 

Bigfoot can't remain hidden forever and be a flesh and blood creature with earthly origins. At a point it becomes more believable that bigfoot is a magical creature or alien otherwise how else can it have a 100% success rate.

 

How much time is obviously different for everyone

 

I say another three minutes

[Guest Maxtag]

Really excellent post.

I am truly a pseudo greenhorn in the BF world and can't proclaim an ounce of first hand experience of any nature but have/do held onto the probability.

I do have much of the same feelings as previous posters where it does seem like it's played out.

I gotta be honest I was really excited over the last couple years with what sure looked like the next step from patterson footage.

A perfect examplme was Seeing the Standing stuff it was exciting at first especially when Les Stroud showed it and talked about. I saw what we all saw but thought "what if that's real, finally we will know"

Then yet again . Its just Another fakery hoax. BS. So I end up asking myself over and over we have nothing 40 plus years that even resembles what I saw as "real bigfoot" when I watched pgf.

I see that it all thuafar adds up to for me...we got nuthin.

So far I am holding out that one of the habitation type scenarios COULD finally show something worth paying attention too.

Time will tell.....

[Incorrigible1]

Fair advice: Don't hold your breath, regarding the habituation.

[Guest Maxtag]

I hear ya. There's a couple that seem pretty straight forward from what I see but I also don't see proof yet.

Then there's also the others talking about portals and the like on the habitation front too. That stuff I just avoid like any of the pgf suit stuff.

[jayjeti]

I like the idea of this being a skeptics/debunkers thread only to let them hash out bigfoot's non-existence in peace.  Bigfoot Forums is a welcoming environment for the unbigfooters and so may their life in this thread be a happy one.

[Guest Maxtag]

I didn't see it as a skeptic/debunk thread. I thought LCB was pretty open and we'll put.

Admittedly I do share many the same feelings. I bet many also do when we examine internally.

They do say 30pct of Americans do believe in BF that's a pretty big number.

[Twist]

I came to this site some 8 years ago as a hardcore proponent of BF. As a result of this site plus other research I have moved to being on the fence. My main thought being, given all the groups out there looking for this thing ( BFFO, GCRO, NAWAC + others ). If the best thing we truly have is the PGF at this point for visual evidence that's not enough for me yet. All the anecdotal evidence in the world does not add up to proof to me at this point. In this day and age people can read all the stereotypical ideas of a Bigfoot and make a report that fits the mold of a typical Bigfoot. Now because their report fits the "mold" it's plausible. Sad as it is to say, I believe In the ability of a person to lie than an 8' primate in America.

[1980squatch]

Plusses to LCB and Crow for thoughtful posts.  Sometimes I wish I could walk away entirely.

[norseman]

It's not a horrendously difficult thing to walk away. If it's any consolation I was as avid a proponent as they get. And whether anyone agrees a person is entitled to change there minds. As a kid I saw a rather impressive trackway through a sand pit near my home. I heard a very strange roar one night right around the same time. It was scary it was pretty cool and I wasn't the only one who saw the tracks. This was BTW before the advent of bigfoot but when you're 9 years old there's lots of other monsters that'll do. In any event the region was never a bigfoot hotspot or even one where reports were made. But it was a strange sight and sound.

I consider myself lucky to have been in on the bogfoot question from the beginning and lucky to be in that young adult world of college in the late 60's early 70's immersed in the pure arts and sciences. I am a world class dreamer, an author, a musician, a technician and a science practitioner (retired). Nobody could dream better than me, not even Roger Patterson. In most respects I'd beat him hands down in terms of imagination. But it was the science that most often than not kept me out of the harms way of folly. I dreamed the bigfoot dreams, the mysterious solitary giant aloof from us new comers. The other walking being that kept it's bargain with nature and as such nature continued to shield him from us. Indeed it's a fantastically romantic view. But the other half never lost sight that eventually that which has been called real must stand and deliver, to pay it's tab, to have it's dues up to date just like the rest of us.

One day around 4 years ago I heard the first whisper of my rational half say "maybe it's all about nothing." I began to watch and wait to see how the newest plots in the saga played out. When enough of them played out in the negative and I could all but predict how the newest ones would the deal was done. For anyone wanting to get off of the fence or define their commitment to the side of the fence they truly believe all one needs to do is look and what's been then look at what is and see if either of the two are an indication of where it's going.

As for the sounds you and your wife heard they can very well have sounded like what you heard. But as with all things bigfoot there is only the word of the person presenting the evidence. Indeed the recordings out there can sound exactly like what people think bigfoot should sound like but it doesn't make them the sound of bigfoot.

So what made the trackway?

[Guest]

Obviously a time traveling copycat hoaxer from a decade in the future, after bigfoot was "created" near Bluff Creek... it's the simplest explanation

[Lake County Bigfooot]

I guess the thread was meant to be a place for belief to go by the wayside and for the rational mind to retreat. Not that

I am faulting belief, but that I think when it comes to the quest of determining the reality of these creatures we must not

be swayed by belief. I started out as a doubter, I was not on the fence, I had religious beliefs that precluded such a creature

in my opinion. Slowly I began to consider the possibility a bit more honestly, and I guess I became intrigued by the possibility

but it never evolved to more than that. Winter leaves a golf pro pretty bord and I thought I would go ahead and put this

topic to rest in my mind, I started reading some books on the subject. Finding Bigfoot was just getting off the ground and

I caught myself watching it for entertainment, still I had no strong opinion either way, only a little fascination. This is how

belief starts, it creeps into your mind, you entertain it, eventually it persuades you however irrational it seems. The rational

mind contests, but it is just too easy to give into fanciful thoughts, now for the most part that is what we see in the bigfoot

community, not that many knowers and a whole lot of believers. Some who want to prove they are knowers, say Todd Standing,

and others, well they allow that belief and some vested interest in their own reputation concerning that belief to lead them

into hoaxing. Hoaxers are generally not people blatantly seeking gain, though some are... you fill in the names....the majority

are believers seeking to prove to the world that their belief it true. You would have to say that many sightings might fall into

this category, believers who are overly zealous and misconstrue something to be a Sasquatch...and then you have the plain

old attention seeking story tellers, any time in this community and you see this stuff over and over, and yes as with Crowlogic

you can predict the outcome. Skepticism is the rational position in my opinion, we should be skeptical of this creatures existence,

to activity, to anything concerning them. However, when we do encounter a rational and solid piece of the puzzle, as in real tracks

we cannot explain other than a living creature making them, well we have to acknowledge that as being rational to consider and

leave it at that. This is the approach I see more and more investigators employing, it is what is needed for moving beyond belief

and getting down to the brass tacks of what is real and what is construed. So I acknowledge that I am a believer in this creatures existence, but I realize that belief is not substance. Substance is evidence which speaks for itself, the type the rational mind

cannot ignore. Does such evidence exist, you decide, I would say it does although in rare cases. The least usable evidence is eyewitness sightings, although they seem to paint a pretty consistent picture. More interesting than the actual sightings is the overall consistency of sighting locations to annual rainfall amounts. The best evidence we have to date is foot print casts and trackway finds, such as Meldrum's first exposure while visiting with Paul Freeman. There are some tracks that defy hoaxing completely. The rational mind knows that something left the print, that is the rational conclusion to seeing a trackway off in a secluded area and out of normal sight. That is the most rational reason to hold

onto any belief in the creature, while I am intrigued by the PGF subject, it is hardly something we can prove was a real creature, no matter how many angles we examine that seem to point to that, however, the tracks we look at are tangible and need to be explained. I concur that sounds and vocalizations, no matter how intriguing and unexplained cannot be submitted as evidence. Now do I entertain the belief that they could be real, of course I do, and I have a thread or two devoted to that. I think you see where I am going with this, it simply is pairing this all down to what is a basis for belief.

Edited November 19, 2015 by Lake County Bigfooot

[dmaker]

It seems rather coincidental that you developed an interest in bigfoot and then found tracks in your backyard. 

[Guest Crowlogic]

 

It's not a horrendously difficult thing to walk away. If it's any consolation I was as avid a proponent as they get. And whether anyone agrees a person is entitled to change there minds. As a kid I saw a rather impressive trackway through a sand pit near my home. I heard a very strange roar one night right around the same time. It was scary it was pretty cool and I wasn't the only one who saw the tracks. This was BTW before the advent of bigfoot but when you're 9 years old there's lots of other monsters that'll do. In any event the region was never a bigfoot hotspot or even one where reports were made. But it was a strange sight and sound.

I consider myself lucky to have been in on the bogfoot question from the beginning and lucky to be in that young adult world of college in the late 60's early 70's immersed in the pure arts and sciences. I am a world class dreamer, an author, a musician, a technician and a science practitioner (retired). Nobody could dream better than me, not even Roger Patterson. In most respects I'd beat him hands down in terms of imagination. But it was the science that most often than not kept me out of the harms way of folly. I dreamed the bigfoot dreams, the mysterious solitary giant aloof from us new comers. The other walking being that kept it's bargain with nature and as such nature continued to shield him from us. Indeed it's a fantastically romantic view. But the other half never lost sight that eventually that which has been called real must stand and deliver, to pay it's tab, to have it's dues up to date just like the rest of us.

One day around 4 years ago I heard the first whisper of my rational half say "maybe it's all about nothing." I began to watch and wait to see how the newest plots in the saga played out. When enough of them played out in the negative and I could all but predict how the newest ones would the deal was done. For anyone wanting to get off of the fence or define their commitment to the side of the fence they truly believe all one needs to do is look and what's been then look at what is and see if either of the two are an indication of where it's going.

As for the sounds you and your wife heard they can very well have sounded like what you heard. But as with all things bigfoot there is only the word of the person presenting the evidence. Indeed the recordings out there can sound exactly like what people think bigfoot should sound like but it doesn't make them the sound of bigfoot.

So what made the trackway?

 

Why should you care Norse?  When I posted the images of the site and the  trajectory of the tracks you  essentially flipped me the bird and said you didn't care.  

Edited November 19, 2015 by Crowlogic