Painthorse Posted November 22, 2015 Posted November 22, 2015 ^Title sounds odd but best way I can word it, lol. Soo, hubby pops a nice buck Friday morning. Hangs it from the barn rafter to skin it, gut it and bleed out while the hose keeps a steady water spray on it over night. Saturday cold enough to continue to hang it and wraps it in cheese cloth with hose continuing a steady spray overnight. Sunday morning noticed the cheese cloth looked odd and upon unwrapping it to process the meat found what looks like teeth marks. No tracks due to large metal grate we laid down underneath it the night before so we wouldn't bust out butts when processing it in the morning due to temps being in the 20's. Pulled cams from the woods and have them aimed at the entrails. Anyone else ever have this happen? There has been no activity here in a long time, just some "maybe's" but nothing that has locked in my attention. This has me a bit baffled. Posting a pic of the buck prior to skinning, questionable mark would be on the upper left leg rear quarter. No other area of the buck was touched.
ShadowBorn Posted November 22, 2015 Moderator Posted November 22, 2015 Painthorse Is that the inside of the right thigh by the groin area? It does not make sense to take a bite if it were these creatures. They would have pulled that deer or at least rip a part of it to take with them.
Painthorse Posted November 23, 2015 Author Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) Outside of the right thigh, husband just corrected me. Fwiw, nothing makes sense with the creatures. Don't know what did it, the height of the mark is curious though. The day prior the head was hacked off along with the front legs, and all the entrails were still there in a bucket untouched this morning. Edit due to correction. Edited November 23, 2015 by Painthorse
Guest Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 Curious, it does look like whatever did it had large flat front incisors, like ours but bigger, You would have think anything else, would have just scrabbled the cheesecloth off entirely, the way you're describing it, sounds like something pulled it aside but didn't put it back properly?
Painthorse Posted November 23, 2015 Author Posted November 23, 2015 @Flash, the cheese cloth was tied to the deer in several places. All ties were still tight except for the tie below the hanger which was at the hock area and there was "bunching" of the cheese cloth. No other ties had loosened. "Originally" my husband thought that perhaps it loosened due to the possibility of shrinkage of the meat. We did not notice any rips in the cloth prior to unwrapping it. When we saw the mark we laid the cloth out on the ground and checked it, there were no rips or any damage. Makes no sense.............The cheese cloth was tied with hay baling string. Going to do a google search, maybe I'll find something similar.
MIB Posted November 23, 2015 Moderator Posted November 23, 2015 I can think of 3 things. First, your husband nicked the quarter skinning ... I've been known to do that myself. Second ... if your husbands hands are strong enough, he might have ripped the meat a bit holding it instead of the hide .. could be finger tips instead of teeth. Yep, I've done that, too. Third ... something with hands untied and retied the baling twine. Question: did you make sure the same kind of knots were used before and after? MIB
SWWASAS Posted November 23, 2015 BFF Patron Posted November 23, 2015 Photograph the marks with a inch measurement visible. Then send it to Bigtreewalker. He and Mitchell Townsend are matching teeth marks to known or unknown animals. For Bigfoot research this is the cutting edge. While their work is with bones, they got a plastic bottle this weekend that had been chewed on. If teeth make an impression, they can evaluate what it is based on known animal characteristics.
Painthorse Posted November 23, 2015 Author Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) @ MIB not being difficult but he did not knick it or damage it. The twine was not untied, same knots. The best way I can explain it and "not" saying that's what happened but "it appears that the plastic (synthetic plastic multiple fiber) bailing cord <not the twine type> was possibly pulled outwards, stressed to the point that it loosened/stretched but still knotted and a "bunching of the cloth in the area where the mark was". There is no possibility imo that it was untied and retied. IF I would have known there was flesh damage under the cloth I would have taken pictures prior to unwrapping it. My husband just said that it looks like something pressure bit down through the cloth and then released without a tearing movement. Could possibly be the reason for the bunching of the cloth.---> That's just his opinion. SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT, K, will do that. Bigtreewalker on this site or how do I forward the pics? The meat has already been processed but I have a couple 2 or 3 different pics I took of the mark. I think maybe the one with my hand in it can be used for sizing? Edited November 23, 2015 by Painthorse
Guest Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 Entrails left untouched? Thats the yummiest part for wild animals. No way they would just walk by that smörgåsbord! Also, the bite is like what, 6 ft off the ground? hmmm...
BigTreeWalker Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) Hi Painthorse, What I see is the fat or the muscle facia bunched up like it was squeezed between something hard. A set of teeth most likely. Judging from your fingernails, I would say each impression is about a half inch wide. Maybe whatever bit it tried to pull the cheese cloth off then just decided to take a bit instead. You say the cloth wasn't untied or torn. Was it possible to pull away far enough to have bit the flesh without biting through the cloth. If not, you could try an experiment. Try biting something though a piece of cheese cloth with the same number of layers and see if your teeth tear it. We think from our research, bigfoot teeth are basically like ours, just larger. An interesting thing is that tooth impression research was originally done on flesh before they started looking at impressions in bone. The size of the impressions there are about the same size that we found in the bone. If you're interested in our research you can see some of it here. http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/50970-what-about-the-bones/ Hope this helps. Wag, animals don't always attack the gut pile right off. They didn't for our control specimen in our research. Of course we're pretty sure a cougar was feeding on the carcass. So maybe the usual culprits, coyotes and birds, were a little fearful to come around. Painthorse, by any chance did you save out the liver? That might be the first thing a BF would go after. Edited November 23, 2015 by BigTreeWalker
BC witness Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 Since you have a barn, can I assume that you have cattle or horses on the property? Those teeth marks look like they could have been made by the teeth of one or the other, and either would have been able to reach that high by stretching it's neck a bit. One bite to check it out, not hay or oats, walk away without another bite, and no interest in the guts. Just a possible guess.
BigTreeWalker Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 Good thought BC. Horses do have that shape of teeth. I did mention this in the What About the Bones thread. The question I have is couldn't the horse smell dead meat. Just asking because I don't know how they react to that. I analyzed the picture using Painthorse's hand for scale. I see four flat upper incisor impressions. They are approximately 2" wide together. There is another impression above them (that would be on the left side of the teeth) which appears to be a conical impression. A cuspid? There are a couple lower impressions. One is a double impression. The other appears to have connected with the upper impressions. Whatever it is, it looks like it needs braces.
Painthorse Posted November 23, 2015 Author Posted November 23, 2015 Thank you for the replies. I'm posting a pic of the area that was taken prior to doing some work on the area to give a better view. The barrels are no longer there along with the tree. Everything else would be the same. The horse trailer is used to keep my feed and hay in, nothing was bothered in that. Our property has 2 horse paddocks the rest of the area (26 acres) is unfenced so the horses have never been loose other than in the turn outs and we have no cows. My small arab stud is kept at he end (to the left) and the hanging deer would have been several feet from being unable to reach it. @BTW, I think my son may have taken pics on Saturday with his phone right after it was wrapped, if he did I'll post them after he gets home, it would give a better idea. The cheese cloth came in 2 sheets, the top area where the damage was, was 1 wrap. Used both sheets to wrap the entire deer. Need to buy more this week in case we get another deer and will "definitely do the bite experiment". ALSO the liver was in the pail that was untouched along with the heart. Have the cams covering that but not near the horses. I will also take pics and post them in this thread of the horse's teeth. We DO agree that what would appear to be the bottom teeth look weird, gnarly. Don't like it, we have been blaming the missing cats on coyotes, lost 2 more within a few days of each other about 2 months ago so have no idea if the damage to the meat could be connected to the missing cats.
Painthorse Posted November 23, 2015 Author Posted November 23, 2015 @BTW, your thread about the bone research you have done is interesting, thank you for the link. If we get another deer I am going to keep the carcass and wire it to a tree so that the yotees don't carry it off and check it periodically for tooth marks. Can't do it to the one we just got because we gave it to our wolf.
Guest Posted November 23, 2015 Posted November 23, 2015 This happen a number of years ago, but a buddy of mine was hunting on Crawford Pigeon Mountain in Georgia and it was begging to get dark, when he shot and killed a deer in a pretty rugged part of the management area.. He hung the deer in a tree to gut it and it was going to be a cold night so he decided to come back in the morning with his 4 wheeler to retrieve the deer. It got dark around 5:30 and day break around 7:30 at that time of year. He pulled the deer up high in the tree so nothing could get at it. Next morning he returned at day light to find the deer an all the cleanings gone, he found no tracks, but the ground was frozen pretty hard from what he told me.
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