Let's Talk Caves and Sasquatch

[WSA]

An animal of the size frequently reported could/probably make use of a rock shelter to get out of wind/snow/rain. While a Sasquatch seems to be uniquely well adapted to weather the elements, what animal prefers to be cold/wet? Especially given the caloric requirements.

 

My issue with BF using caves on any regular basis is mainly just an appreciation of how tight a fit your average solution cave is for even the average size human, let alone an animal possibly three times that size. That, and most caves are dead-ends....even though water and air may find a way out, most all reach a point where they don't "go" for the average sized caver. Again, would a giant BF do any better?  It would seem to me an animal as sophisticated and wary as a BF would always leave itself an exit route. 

 

I'm less persuaded by the lack of BF evidence in caves.  Caves are by their very nature dark, inaccessible places, and the number that have been truly examined and excavated is tiny. (But, let's not overlook Lovelock Cave either) I have personal knowledge of an individual who discovered a Neolithic skeleton right near the entrance to a local cave, one that had been explored by countless numbers of cavers over many decades.  Rising Star Cave in S. Africa is another example of how alcoves can be overlooked, and how geologic formations will cover evidence as well.  There is also the standard observation about so many things related to BF: To increase your chances of finding something you need to be looking for it.  

[Yuchi1]

The entrance to Georgetown cave is ~12' high by ~45' wide, you could drive a Jeep into it.  Coffee cave (~8 miles upstream) has a small entrance that immediately opens up into a chamber that is ~20' high and almost as wide, probably why the bats found it so attractive.

[SWWASAS]

I sometimes think about this when driving Mariner.  If I'm in an area I'm not particularly familiar with and I see a large stump standing alone in a field or something I often wonder, "If I came back by here tomorrow, would that stump still be there?"

What flips me out is when the stump is not there when you go back. This stump(?) was not there a few days later, even though it was present less than 24 hours after this picture was taken. When something was there, the next day, I figured stump. When it was gone the next week I am left with the mystery of where it went and what it really was.

Here is the original digital picture before it was blown up.

Edited January 20, 2016 by SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT

[hiflier]

Hello All,

Here's a report that is interesting:

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=11030

It was linked from a caver on a caver Forum. It doesn't indicate anything about cave usage but the fact that the howl was very loud is why I'm pursuing cave acoustics. I will be posting what I've learned about bats as well. They have specific requirements for their own choices in what caves to use. IMO this is all important stuff to know.

[FarArcher]

There's two kinds of caves.  Easy access to humans, and those with no easy access to humans.

 

They're not dumb - they'd avoid caves that have reasonably easy access to humans.

 

Even in the South, on occasion, one will find an undercut in a stream bank - almost like someone dug the dirt out by hand.

 

And a cave is much cooler in summer and fall, enabling one to start stockpiling meat, fruits, grain, and things like corn.

[georgerm]

One possibility is bigfoot hand digs out it's own cave or tunnel with a tiny, hidden entrance on some rugged forested mountain humans have never climbed. They pick a location it knows humans won't find. There are reports of these tunnels near Edwards Air Force base and others out there. A vet here told of the North Vietnamese Army digging miles of tunnels, and we missed most of them.

 

Fararcher also pointed out BF knows where humans don't go such as remote cliffs with hidden caves or large rain proof ledges. Ostman's BF's lived under a rock ledge. A remote cave that goes back 30' is probably enough for BF to be comfortable.

[hiflier]

Hello All,

Some interesting things regarding this subject. Bats don't just pick any cave to hibernate in. The temperature inside is critical in allowing them to slow down their heart rate, drop their own temperature and slow down their respiration rates. If it's too cold they will burn up too much energy. Too warm and they won't be able to lower their metabolisms. Also they are not really asleep and are always aware if something enters the cave either by light or by sound. The bats WILL begin wake up but it can take hours for them to fully be functional.

They will rouse on their own occasionally to defecate, drink water and such but again it takes a long time to reach their naturally active level for movement. They may look like they are still asleep to someone who wanders in but they aren't. If disturbed enough or often the bats will leave the cave and go somewhere else. If Sasquatch does use caves in winter then it could be because of being able to help sustain themselves minimally on bats. The bats are helpless in their hibernation state and will be for hours but if it's winter and they leave they will die. There are reports of people finding dead bats outside of caves.

The reason I'm bringing all this up is that if BF uses caves then they will only use them if there are bats? If the bats leave then so will the BFs? Do they follow the bats to see where the new cave is and then when a new winter comes move in to continue foraging on bats? Is this why there doesn't seem to be permanent dwelling evidence in caves? Because like some mention the refuges are temporary? I'm proposing that the reason they are temporary could be that they follow the bats who have left because of BF's presence.

Many of you have seen me joke about when Sasquatch gets hungry no problem- just pluck a few bats off the ceiling. I Joked about it but I was serious about the idea. I think they do pluck bats from the ceiling as long as they can reach it or maybe take a stick to pry them loose. The bats of course won't tolerate the disturbance and depending on how much winter is left will leave once they are roused enough to respond.

[Twist]

 

What flips me out is when the stump is not there when you go back. This stump(?) was not there a few days later, even though it was present less than 24 hours after this picture was taken. When something was there, the next day, I figured stump. When it was gone the next week I am left with the mystery of where it went and what it really was.

Stumpsquatch.JPG

Here is the original digital picture before it was blown up.

IMG_0059.JPG

 

Plus 1 on this,yeah thats what I fear, the stump not being there!.  I drive a lot for my job and always watch the road sides, I'm more afraid of missing an opportunity regarding bF than I am of the BF itself, that is to say, a stump one day that is not there the next is a missed opportunity to investigate a BF sighting as its happening.  

[Kiwakwe]

Some of these cave insights from Ray Crowe have been mentioned already but here's the link:

http://www.nabigfootsearch.com/caves--bigfoot.html

[BigTreeWalker]

If bigfoot is eating bats, the forest service is putting a crimp in that behavior in the GPNF. They put bars on some of the lava tubes that are known bat wintering areas. Is this to keep humans or bigfoot out?

[Yuchi1]

^^^ Both?

[hiflier]

Hello Kiwakwe,

 

Yes, I had read that in my searches. Two things that are not mentioned. One is eyeglow when discussing dark caves and the other is there wasn't a word about bats. It is a good read though and it was good to revisit the ideas and arguments pro and con so for that I thank you.

 

@ BigTreeWalker,

 

Yes, true. But with thousands of caves they can bar them all. Just the act of barring up a cave will send the bats somewhere else unless they bar them in summer.. They may come back eventually if the conditions that brought them there in the first place continue.

 

I strongly think Sasquatch uses caves. I'm using the bat as one of the reasons it would choose a cave for winter and which one it would choose by giving a reason for that choice. Also explaining that a Sasquatch presence would cause both the bats and then Sasquatch to leave the confines. So...no sign of permanent or long term residence. Sasquatch is an animal it will follow the food and if it scares it off it will then go where the food takes it. For an animal it make perfect sense. For an unproved animal though? Meh. Who knows. This just all sounds pretty logical to me for something living in the wild.

Edited January 21, 2016 by hiflier

[BigTreeWalker]

Well I know the reason for the barring was for the bats. The question is what undesirables are they keeping out?

[SWWASAS]

What flips me out is when the stump is not there when you go back. This stump(?) was not there a few days later, even though it was present less than 24 hours after this picture was taken. When something was there, the next day, I figured stump. When it was gone the next week I am left with the mystery of where it went and what it really was.

Stumpsquatch.JPG

Here is the original digital picture before it was blown up.

IMG_0059.JPG

Plus 1 on this,yeah thats what I fear, the stump not being there!.  I drive a lot for my job and always watch the road sides, I'm more afraid of missing an opportunity regarding bF than I am of the BF itself, that is to say, a stump one day that is not there the next is a missed opportunity to investigate a BF sighting as its happening.

I was driving up in the Wallowa's in Eastern Oregon, taking a not very well travelled forest loop last year. I swear I got a glimpse of a BF out in a stream as I went by even though I knew at the time it could be a stump. But thinking about it a few seconds, standing stumps in streams are not common so I decided to turn around a go back. It took me about 10 minutes to find a place to turn around and get back. Nothing there that looked anything like I had seen and no standing stumps. Another head scratcher.

We have to remember that BF has been observed throwing good sized logs and rocks. So it has hands and is very powerful. Is it clever enough to hide cave or lava tube openings with a log or big rock it simply moves away like a door. Dumb weak humans would see that and not have a clue that a cave opening could be right behind a big rock. .

Edited January 21, 2016 by SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT

[hiflier]

Hello SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT,

 

First of all I appreciate your and everyone else's input on this topic If Sasquatch does use a cave for at least some of the worst winter conditions or to seek out a bat population then I think there's a criteria to bring up. Even without bats in the equation then the principle of igloo construction might come into play. Not the construction itself but the principle in the construction where the entrance is lower than the floor inside. It helps keep the heat from escaping and gives a place for cold air to collect- namely in the lower entrance level. This would also allow cold air from the cave to leave along the floor as a small vault is warmed. Snow caves in emergency situations should be constructed in this manner and the lee of a small hill is the best place to choose for it. Snow caves however can be dangerous for several important reasons but even at 32 degrees and out of the wind an individual or small group will have a better chance at surviving night time temperatures which are much lower along with deadly windchills. 

 

Be that as it mat animals are very sensitive to temperature and so experience will tell an animal which cave structure will be best suited to ride out a deep freeze or a blizzard. Bats seeking a consistent temperature situation will naturally utilize such structuring along with whatever heat they generate which will stay at the ceiling level. I can see where low entrances will have the advantage and might even provide better clues than the straight in entrances most imagine. BTW your account above was most interesting. Thank you.

Edited January 21, 2016 by hiflier