Let's Talk Caves and Sasquatch

[Guest Cryptic Megafauna]

Reminds me of lake Champlain where I saw a very large 5 foot by three by three object floating on the water (not a boat of log), waited for the drive back to get a picture in 5 minutes but it was gone. Would have had to move several miles to have got out of sight in that time. Likely would have been just another blobby picture though. 

Here is my cave discovery this year. Did not go all they way in due to bear or cougar concerns or just noxious accumulated gasses.

 

[BigTreeWalker]

CM, that looks suspiciously like a man-made structure with the rectangular appearance and rock type. But that begs the question what it's use was. Mineshaft, tunnel, shelter...?

[hiflier]

Hello All,

 

Time for a cave recap:

 

Pros:

Place for winter refuge

Place to hide from hunters

Place to hide from BF researchers

Place to leave dead BFs

Place where eye glow might enable seeing in the dark

Place to ride out severe storms

Place to eat troglodytes and bats

Place to ride out forest fire

Place to give birth

Place to bring and eat dead animals or find live ones

Place to magnify howls

Place to hear Animals and humans from a distance

Place to stay cool in the summer

Place to find unfrozen water in winter 

Place to gather and sleep as a group....

 

Cons:

Place to get a trapped

 

Anyone wishing to add to either list is welcome to do so. Anyone wishing to subtract from the list is also welcome to do so. Comments good or bad on any entry gladly accepted.

Edited January 22, 2016 by hiflier

[TritonTr196]

A con would be If it's a real cave system with nesting bats I don't think Bigfoot is going too be using that certain cave. If Bigfoot is so much akin to humans and intelligent like some believe, they most likely will be susceptible to a lot of the same ailments as us. Meaning they do not want to be breathing in stirred up bat guano that would covering the entire floor and walls thickly. You do not want to be breathing that stuff. I think they would shy away from bat infested caves.

[hiflier]

Hello TritonTr196,

 

Histoplasmosis is a dangerous disease to be sure. There could be a mortality rate in Sasquatch as a result. Other animals use caves too so some research into whether or not animals are susceptible could be in order. Good Grief- will research ever end?

[Guest Cryptic Megafauna]

The case for BF hibernation is pretty good from the BFRO class A sightings data. January and February have almost 0 sightings in the Pacific coastal states data. Hominids, including humans, are capable of light hibernation. So on a warm sunny winter day they could come out of their nap and relocate or look for food or water and that might account for any very low umber of sightings. Of course there are very few people at high elevations in winter, no lumber crews or tourism adventure in high mountain passes, hunters, etc. Just skiers and some winter hikers. A cave or well made debris pile would be the way to go.

There is a know association with lava tube caves and deep coastal canyon lands so I would start there. The problem, as always, is access and local knowledge. The easy to get to caves and known caves are likely not going to be the ones.

Interestingly in The Long Walk by Slawomir Rawicz where escapees from the Gulags via Tibet see Yeti up close they had been camping in large caves in remote areas and as they descended they had their sightings. The sighting was very interesting as they were close enough to throw snowballs at and were not in cover on a snowfield during a 2 hour, or so, encounter.

[SWWASAS]

Reminds me of lake Champlain where I saw a very large 5 foot by three by three object floating on the water (not a boat of log), waited for the drive back to get a picture in 5 minutes but it was gone. Would have had to move several miles to have got out of sight in that time. Likely would have been just another blobby picture though. 

Here is my cave discovery this year. Did not go all they way in due to bear or cougar concerns or just noxious accumulated gasses.

 

005.jpg004.jpg

You think it was Champie in the water? Are there copper deposits in the area of the cave? There is a lot of evidence of pre-Columbian copper mining in the upper Midwest and they used tunneling methods.

[MIB]

The case for BF hibernation is pretty good from the BFRO class A sightings data. January and February have almost 0 sightings in the Pacific coastal states data.

 

Depends on what you call almost zero.   I don't think we agree on definition. 

 

There are two parts to a sighting ... something to see, someone to see it.   I observe that the number of potential people available to do the seeing is vastly less in the winter months and those who are there are demographically the ones least likely to file a report.  

 

I don't know where you're at / from, but you're talking about my home turf.   Look at an activity break-down of the people who file the reports and, topographically, where the sightings occur.    In the winter we have some steelhead fishermen but very few hunters.   That means the BFs have to be stream-side to be seen.   More than that, a lot of hunters camp either in campgrounds or dispersed camp areas.   Winter steelhead fishermen generally don't camp, they stay in town and drive out.   We have no summer family campers in winter so whatever they were doing and wherever that stuff they were doing took them where they had their sighting ... not happening in winter.   Campgrounds are closed with the gates shut and locked.   Can't even stop and use the outhouse in passing.   The sheer number of people is so much smaller in winter that the opportunities for a road crossing sighting drop considerably as well.

 

In other words, there is no case at all for hibernation once you correctly understand the context of the data.

 

In fact, winter is the perfect time to be looking because the rain-soaked ground will "take" tracks better and the reduction in human traffic gives them time and "comfort" to get into places where you might observe one with less effort.   You just have to be willing to put yourself out there in miserable wet weather.

 

MIB

Edited January 22, 2016 by MIB

[BobbyO]

The case for BF hibernation is pretty good from the BFRO class A sightings data. January and February have almost 0 sightings in the Pacific coastal states data.

 

Depends on what you call almost zero.   I don't think we agree on definition. 

 

 

MIB

Well if zero equates to over 20 Class A reports in WA State alone (24 actually) in the Winter months from December 20th until March 19th, then yeah it's almost zero..

That's from the SSR which incorporates the BFRO and all other public databases, and we haven't finished OR, NorCal and BC yet either.

[hiflier]

Hello All,

I'm going to bump this for a second to ask those that have experienced the phenomenon of eye glow which is on the "pros" list to give their thoughts on the matter. Which came first? Caves or eye glow? Yeah, yeah, I know decaf or regular, paper or plastic. But in the example of cave usage then other than maybe infrared or echolocation or smell, how would Sasquatch find it's way around or locate deep cave bat colonies or troglodytes to eat?

As you can see I'm still gather ammo to support cave use. So jump in the water's fine Speaking of which, I saw ducks and seagull at the seashore today. The air temperature was around 25F. They had their feet in the ocean water and I think it's because the water temperature is in the 40's and so their feet, even though there's little or no blood there, won't freeze. Make sense?

Edited January 23, 2016 by hiflier

[daveedoe]

here is a link to Ole's cave near the Ape Caves in the GPNF. A friend and I explored this way back in 1970. Just another lava tube. Once you get past the entrance its pitch black and wet.  Thought it would be fun to share.

 

 

http://spelunkinghq.net/oles-cave-part-1-4k/

[hiflier]

Hello daveedoe,

 

Beautiful. I found myself trying to imagine the processes at work in forming the whole feature along with probably the thousands of others like it. Incredible to think about. Can't thank you enough for the tour. I actually became aware that I was holding my breath in places LOL. Great video documentation too.

[Yuchi1]

Hello All,

I'm going to bump this for a second to ask those that have experienced the phenomenon of eye glow which is on the "pros" list to give their thoughts on the matter. Which came first? Caves or eye glow? Yeah, yeah, I know decaf or regular, paper or plastic. But in the example of cave usage then other than maybe infrared or echolocation or smell, how would Sasquatch find it's way around or locate deep cave bat colonies or troglodytes to eat?

As you can see I'm still gather ammo to support cave use. So jump in the water's fine Speaking of which, I saw ducks and seagull at the seashore today. The air temperature was around 25F. They had their feet in the ocean water and I think it's because the water temperature is in the 40's and so their feet, even though there's little or no blood there, won't freeze. Make sense?

 

Just to be particular, waterfowl have extensive capillaries in their feet to enable blood flow which keeps them (feet) warm and therefore functional in cold temps. Out in the shop, have a photo of ~250K waterfowl (large race Canada geese, mallards & green wing teal) taken at Kearney, Nebraska in January of 1996, The ambient temps were teens during the day and zero or below at night. They were roosting on a frozen lake near I-80 and flying out to the surrounding grain fields every few hours to feed. That's as far south as those birds migrated for the year.

 

BF and caves? My theory is that in order to remain undetected, stealth and mobility are paramount. They would use caves as temporary shelter, hiding places and escape routes (w/2 or more points of ingress/egress) and possible hunting grounds and or cache sites. Also, it could be burial grounds in some instances.  IMO, if you are underground, outside of "shapeshifting" it may well be the best way to remain undetected.

[hiflier]

Hello Yuchi1,

 

It would certainly support a lot of the Native American folklore and belief that the "tribes" live, or lived, in the caves from BC through the Southwest and Oklahoma too. One thing comes to mind about that: burial. One would think that the stench would by experience choose burial sites that would be outside caves? I've read where spelunkers mention the odor of a dead animal being very unpleasant not to mention the risk of disease or discovery. Livestock that have fallen down shafts have been mentioned and it isn't pleasant. 

 

The reports of strong sudden odors of sulfer, dead animal, diapers, and IDK, bat guano? and others may indicate burial or death in caves. Maybe a fall down a shaft by a juvenile and the parents couldn't leave it? Then too the dead animal smell could actually BE from a known animal which died and the wind wafted just right (or wrong) for a few minutes where the researcher was.

[BigTreeWalker]

here is a link to Ole's cave near the Ape Caves in the GPNF. A friend and I explored this way back in 1970. Just another lava tube. Once you get past the entrance its pitch black and wet.  Thought it would be fun to share.

 

 

http://spelunkinghq.net/oles-cave-part-1-4k/

Thanks for the link Dave. That was a very interesting tour of Ole's cave. Almost claustrophobic at times. I've been in there but that was an interesting perspective. It is also very representative of the lava tubes in the whole area.

Hiflier, the formation of those tubes is a very interesting process. The lava flows down a valley covering everything in its path. Creating large tree casts as it goes, which are present throughout this area also. The surface cools and the interior continues to flow. If there's an opening at the bottom the lava flows out leaving tubes. Subsequent flows create layers in the tubes and various parallel tubes. Very interesting geography.

Also I don't know if you noticed but the vapor from the guy's breath was flowing into the cave. An indication that it wouldn't be a very good refuge from a forest fire.