Has Bigfoot Science Stalled?

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

 

Tool creation requires more than just a high intelligence. In primates, it also requires hands that have dexterity or precision. In theory, it's totally possible for an animal to have human-like intelligence and at the same time not be able to craft tools like spears.

Absolutely not. Because brain development needs dexteritous hands and vice versa. As one grows so does the other.

Big brains are expensive caloric wise, so where is the upside to feeding a giant brain without hands that can build things that increases your species success rate? None.

 

If you look at animals like dolphins, their intelligence developed without the presence of any arms or tool use. An intelligent brain made them better hunters, but I do agree that a non-human ape developing human-like intelligence isn't likely. My point is that it's only theoretically possible, but very unlikely from an evolutionary point of view.

[norseman]

And I openly admit that marine mammals have followed a different evolutionary course than primates.

Speaking of tools, look at this picture of a glyph which was placed when I was present. It is the only one I can be reasonably sure was done by other than humans because of my presence at the time. I was never out of sight of the stump as it was behind my back for a period of over an hour and a half. At any time, if I had turned around, the stump would have been visible. And I did turn around every few minutes to use a big root ball beyond the stump to maintain a bearing away from the stump. It was not only visible but more visible because I was going up sloping terrain and looking down on it. Those rock shards were sharp. They are almost tool like in nature. I looked around for some distance around the location and could not find any fractured rock which to pick up and simply place there. So the rock either had to have been found and carried from some distance away, or it was fabricated closer from the abundant round rock in the area. The shards look very much like rock scrapers attributed to ancient humans which are used for scraping meat off of bones. The symmetry seems to suggest fabrication. If not fabrication then careful selection. Tools or art I do not know. The sharp edges as you can see from the photograph, are clean and I do not think they had been used as a scraper. That probably is a good argument against their use as a scraper. However one would not think something scraper like in form would not be fabricated unless it had some use.

IMG_0082.JPG

Homo Erectus hand axe.

Edited January 26, 2016 by norseman

[georgerm]

 

 

 

.........................If I was to guess, science would say that these creatures do not stay in one place at any given time. They do not need heat since they do not need borders to keep them in one place. Food is abundant for them since it is all around them when they need it.

These are questions yet to be answered. Do they control a ten mile by ten mile territory in which they migrate and hunt? Do they migrate 100s of miles during a year. We just don't know yet.

 

.......................... I am stuck with that question right now and it has a very big impact on me and how I view our world. I might be a joke to you all but these creatures have made a big impact on me. I will not change my views nor the way I believe to what I believe to what be to be true. Like I have said science has made an impact on me .......................... 

You are not a joke anymore than the rest of us, bigfooters who are mocked by a high percentage of the public. Just proof read more. 

 

If we went to a graduate college science class and asked about bigfoot, we could be assured of a roar of laughter. ha .....ha. Snide remarks would come from all corners. We could clash together 18" bigfoot plaster foot casts with a crash and a bang!  A cloud of dust would rise as we accused them of helping stall bigfoot science. Why will you not even consider the suppositions and facts that we have carefully collected? If someone proves the existence of bigfoot tomorrow, we will have the last laugh.

 

Edited January 27, 2016 by georgerm

[ShadowBorn]

If we went to a graduate college science class and asked about bigfoot, we could be assured of a roar of laughter. ha .....ha. Snide remarks would come from all corners. We could clash together 18" bigfoot plaster foot casts with a crash and a bang!  A cloud of dust would rise as we accused them of helping stall bigfoot science. Why will you not even consider the suppositions and facts that we have carefully collected? If someone proves the existence of bigfoot tomorrow, we will have the last laugh

 

Now I have gone to bigfoot meetings in libraries  that were set up by a fellow researcher who has had great encounters with these creatures. He has taken some great video of their eye shine and the size of their eyes in those video you are not going to find on the internet. I have seen the interest in the people that they have towards this creature. It is odd that the public has more awareness of these creatures then our own scientist. That the public is more open to the idea of a living creature that may very well may be a part of our ancestry living in our present time. Now would this not scare science from discovery. This is just my opinion but seems to be hitting to close to home. Yes I am always proof reading since I want to make sure it is right. I do not want to argue the issue, I would like to see this forward with more effort towards proving through science. For this creature to become real, science needs to get involve and not stall the issue. There needs to be funding for a responsible expedition to be involve who would be open to all ideas.JIMO  

 

As far as migration goes it is hard to tell with out properly tracking them , we have talked about this and come up with 20 - 50 miles within a day. But this is just a guess and not a good on at that. One way to find out would be to use prints that are collected from different parts of the USA and see if these prints are related with prints in other parts of the USA. To see if there is a pattern of the same creatures visiting that same area of the USA. This would provide data of movement of a clan and give pattern of a family unit. For creatures to migrate there has to be a reason for it, whether it be for food, bedding, weather, and even mating.

 

Yuchi1

You hit on a key feature about them and that is that they do have a weakness. A weakness that if you setup a bait station for them that sooner or later they are going to hit it just like any other animal in the wild including man. Habituators have been using this on their lands to keep peace with them for years, on top of that they have been using flood lights and cameras to feel safe until they get to an understanding with them. Sure it is not an over night thing where it is a sure thing and it does take time for trust to build up, so there is the difference between them and a bear or any other animal that lives in the forest. A bear that sees food that is out in the open is not going to be cautious , it is going to grab what it can and get away with it. Besides bears do not fight back after it has been shot, no they run and tear through the woods. Just like deer do or any other animal does when it is shot. What you describe is a creature that had intent to cause harm when harm was caused upon it. Only man or some thing that thinks like us does this or strategize where harm need to be done. This would be an eye opening experience for me if I was there .

 

My first sighting was all it took to understand that if I was to shoot one I would not survive. But what really had me was when I was hunting in my blind and they threw some thing to get me out of my blind. Then to have me surrounded only to have one route out that I took since I felt that I was in danger. That was when I knew I was no longer in control of where I was or what I was doing. Talk about staring at your own mortality I knew that day where I stood in this world compare to them. See this is science but in a different form of science.

 

Speaking of tools, look at this picture of a glyph which was placed when I was present.    It is the only one I can be reasonably sure was done by other than humans because of my presence at the time.   I was never out of sight of the stump as it was behind my back for a period of over an hour and a half.    At any time, if I had turned around, the stump would have been visible.   And I did turn around every few minutes to use a big root ball beyond the stump to maintain a bearing away from the stump.     It was not only visible but more visible because I was going up sloping terrain and looking down on it.     Those rock shards were sharp.    They are almost tool like in nature.    I looked around for some distance around the location and could not find any fractured rock which to pick up and simply place there.      So the rock either had to have been found and carried from some distance away, or it was fabricated closer from the abundant round rock in the area.       The shards look very much like rock scrapers attributed to ancient humans which are used for scraping meat off of bones.    The symmetry seems to suggest fabrication.  If not fabrication then careful selection.   Tools or art I do not know.    The sharp edges as you can see from the photograph, are clean and I do not think they had been used as a scraper.   That probably is a good argument against their use as a scraper.   However one would not think something scraper like in form would not be fabricated unless it had some use. 

 

IMG_0082.JPG

 

 Now are you saying that this was done by them while you were present? if so I would relate this as a gift from them. As strange as it may seem they do this strange stuff and there is no explanation for it. It boggles ones mind when this happens since one does not expect an animal to do this. This is not behavioral of an animal but of a person or ancient man. If this was placed by them then this I would call a woo moment just like that WoW moment that was wrote when seti found that single signal from space.

[Yuchi1]

Nothing in your post screams out human like intelligence.

Being lured into the deer bait is a good example of that and so is slamming a 1400 lbs tree stand over.

A) The promise of food can over ride caution for them even in the most dire situations.

B ) They possess great strength (like a bear) which is not represented in the genus homo anywhere.

 

Well, as we suck at catching one, maybe they are more intelligent than we are?

 

One thing is for sure, they own the forests and they definitely own the night.

[norseman]

^^^^^^

If your hunter in your story had made a head shot on the Squatch that came into the bait? They wouldnt have looked as smart right? It came to a bait site with a hunter present. Thats something a Lion, Tiger or Bear would do. But not a human.

Cougars are very stealthy elusive animals? Maybe a combo of cougar stealth and dumb blind luck? Dunno.

[Guest Cryptic Megafauna]

In reply to brain development.

Since Sasquatch does not have a modern frontal cortex the tool development approach is moot. (recessive forehead)

But the brain mass might possibly be greater due to gigantism, thought whether greater than the average Homo Sapiens Sapiens is the point here.

If so perhaps it indicates a larger sub-mental vertical development such as in archaic Native American types (who had greater brain volume) instead of frontal caudal such as in Europeans, who perhaps have a more highly developed social complex,perhaps consonant with the development of technology (do they go hand in hand as per this type of brain development).

This deeper taller type of brain might have non technological intelligence capabilities that are different and superior in some ways to modern man? 

Just as modern man is superior in the mental processing of technology and social abstract templates and their verbal and logical transmission.

Perhaps the superior development (if any) might be in the processing of information for stealth and avoiding modern man as an evolutionary adaptation.

Also the guidance system of a superior organism with much higher energy utilization with unusual survival and athletic abilities.

Perhasp an advanced processing of instinctual subliminal abilities such as hypnosis, mimicry, and apperceptional behaviors such as non hierarchical awareness usefull for defeating competing species that are using hierarchies of organizational protocols to hunt, farm, and create technological civilizations. In other words the dynamic tension between organization, and to our minds, the chaotic, exploited for survival purposes.

You could theorize this is why we rarely see Sasquatch and that it has an unusual ability to remain consistently undetected.

[Yuchi1]

^^^^^^

If your hunter in your story had made a head shot on the Squatch that came into the bait? They wouldnt have looked as smart right? It came to a bait site with a hunter present. Thats something a Lion, Tiger or Bear would do. But not a human.

 

Obviously, you've never been caught stealing watermelons, eh?

Cougars are very stealthy elusive animals? Maybe a combo of cougar stealth and dumb blind luck? Dunno.

 

Hunger(dead of winter) and having been fed (baited) for years probably had more to do with it than anything. Also, remember the year before another shooter (guy from Ohio) had watched them in his NV scope for several minutes but did not pull the trigger. This is because he had a full view of their faces and told the hunt organizer they looked so human that he felt a homicide would have been the outcome, had he fired. The shooter in the successive event (sniper boy) shot the entity in the back as it tried to slowly drag the deer carcass back into the brush while in a prone position. He later stated the face was never in frontal view.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Yuchi1

[JDL]

 

 

Quote Norseman, 25 Jan 2016 - 5:51 p.m.

"But your Gorillas comparison has shot you in the foot.

"Because the poor hapless Gorillas are still being slaughtered like cattle 150 years later!

"But a Sasquatch skull would stick a fork in skeptics once and for all."

 

I beg your pardon, Norseman; I wasn't clear. But you've made my point for me.

 

Gorillas started bein' shot by men with guns 150 years ago. They're still bein' shot with guns today. ...

They didn't learn to hide from men with guns.

 

According to stories that I've read, fiction or fact, Bigfoot was shot by men with guns more than 150 years ago and

even up until the early 20th century. ... But not lately?  Instead nowadays, they're more likely to be shot with cameras. 

But I keep reading that Bf, most of them, are camera-wise and avoid those too.

 

My point is that Bigfoot learned what the Gorillas have been unable to learn. This may show that Bigfoot reasons  

and learns from experience.

 

But if Bigfoot can reason-learn-adapt, why doesn't he make tools?

 

That one's easy, assuming his brain is similar to ours but not identical. In us, left & right brain functions are different. To greatly over-simplify, the left brain is analytical; the right brain is intuitive.

 

I suggest that Bigfoot is as intelligent as we are in right brain functions. But he never got around to developing much

left brain function. Or perhaps his left brain developed differently than ours. 

 

He may see us as an unwelcome guest in the woods or even a serious enemy. That didn't motivate him to invent the spear.

He's well able to throw rocks and large chunks of wood.

 

As for sticking a fork in skeptics, I suspect they're a bit too right-brained to get it.

 

(edited by Oonjerah for spacing.)

Just a few things as we seemed to have strayed off the topic of whether the science has stalled.

I believe the whole left brain/right brain thing has been shown to be mostly incorrect (sort of like that "we only use 10% of our brain capacity trope").

Accepting your premise that sasquatches were hunted by man and have thus learned to hide from man; Why then are the majority of reports found civilization-adjacent? Why does sasquatch seem to have a propensity for walking near roads, hiking trails, campgrounds (as per geotherm in this thread). I see not internal logic in sasquatch reports, does it avoid man but not understand what a campsite is, or a road, or vehicles? This inconsistency is yet another reason I feel this is a cultural phenomenon rather than a physical animal.

Gorilla, in the vast majority, have consistent behavior within it's species, as does every other physical animal. Why doesn't sasquatch, if it's flesh and blood. (no woo please. this is a science thread).

 

 

Now, this is a great science question that needs an answer along with many others before sasquatch science is unstalled. We don't have these answers and we can only suppose or theorize.

 

1. What comes to mind is some bigfoots need easy prey such as chickens, cows, or dogs in order to survive.

2. Some bigfoots such as juveniles or out casts have been pushed out of remote habitats by more dominant clans.

3. Bigfoots can't avoid roads and other human elements in order to keep up their migration pattern. This leads to question 3. a. Does bigfoot migrate?

 

It becomes obvious we have more questions than answers.

 

One documentary on TV showed a credentialed biologist studying Snow Leopard in Asia, and he made a great blind. He spent months and months in the cold until he got great videos of the creature.

 

 

The highlighted question above has been discussed here in various threads going back several years.

 

Summarizing the hypothetical source of the conflict and resultant evolution of interspecies attitudes:

 

1.  Bigfoot and hunter-gatherer/early agricultural humans competed for the best and most supportive terrain for food.

2.  Early on, bigfoot would have had an advantage as small groups of each encountered each other during competition.  Bigfoot had the advantage during confrontations.

3.  As humans developed more effective hunting weapons and as human communities grew larger, humans were more effective during confrontations.

4.  Bigfoot, in response grew more stealthy in order to take advantage of shared food sources without being driven off, and more active at night.

5.  Over the centuries/millennia, there were times, climatically that made survival more difficult, so humans became more efficient at gathering large amounts of food available, processing it, and storing it for long winters, etc.

6.  Bigfoot, faced with efficient human collection of prime food sources, were subsequently drawn to human livestock, food stores, and eventually human crops, particularly during harsh winters.  They may even have preyed on humans at times. 

7.  Humans would have responded by attempting to hunt down and drive off bigfoot clans because preservation of their food stores equaled survival.  The oral tradition of Jack the Giant Killer stories probably had their genesis in these times.

8.  As a result, bigfoot became progressively more stealthy, and likely more judicious in how often and how much they took advantage of human food sources, finding the human toleration level, at which humans did not bother to pursue bigfoot to drive them off.

9.  Bigfoot were likely a known and acknowledged species among the Celtic cultures (much as they are by Native American tribes today), but belief in such things was discouraged as a new and dominant culture moved into Europe.  Anything humanoid would have been viewed as demonic in origin because it was a perversion of man's aspect and because man was believed to be made in a certain image. Generation by generation, as the nexus of human culture gravitated toward progressively larger cities, the view that wild men were myth began to dominate, and still does today.  Consider also that many place names with an oral tradition of Wildman encounters include the term devil or something similar in their names.

 

So the history and interspecies evolution is more a result of competition for food than a matter of active conflict.  Bigfoot are still drawn to us because we are an easy source of foodstuffs, but do so with as much stealth as possible to avoid confrontation.

[Celtic Raider]

People are scared of what can be found about these creatures, Science has stalled cause it does not want to go further. It will open to many doors for man, some doors that should stay closed. This creature steps on way to many opinions, views and if they open this door will even step on creation in a religious way. Is it worth going down that path. Maybe IMO science has chose to stall, and maybe even them have chosen stay hidden.JMOI

 

 

I can't see this being any kind of impediment to discovery of these potential creatures. We are very luckily enjoying a Zeitgeist of enlightenment of human evolution with all the recent discoveries and finds like the hobbit, lucy, Homo naledi and so forth adding to the picture.  This is currently THE PLACE TO BE in science. If this animal exists it no doubt will further advance our knowledge of evolution of bipedal primates, possibly the homo genus, even Medieval superstitions have not retarded our recent revelations, no reason to think this will be the straw that broke the camels back........that broke a long while ago.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Celtic Raider

[Bodhi]

 

 

 

Quote Norseman, 25 Jan 2016 - 5:51 p.m.

"But your Gorillas comparison has shot you in the foot.

"Because the poor hapless Gorillas are still being slaughtered like cattle 150 years later!

"But a Sasquatch skull would stick a fork in skeptics once and for all."

 

I beg your pardon, Norseman; I wasn't clear. But you've made my point for me.

 

Gorillas started bein' shot by men with guns 150 years ago. They're still bein' shot with guns today. ...

They didn't learn to hide from men with guns.

 

According to stories that I've read, fiction or fact, Bigfoot was shot by men with guns more than 150 years ago and

even up until the early 20th century. ... But not lately?  Instead nowadays, they're more likely to be shot with cameras. 

But I keep reading that Bf, most of them, are camera-wise and avoid those too.

 

My point is that Bigfoot learned what the Gorillas have been unable to learn. This may show that Bigfoot reasons  

and learns from experience.

 

But if Bigfoot can reason-learn-adapt, why doesn't he make tools?

 

That one's easy, assuming his brain is similar to ours but not identical. In us, left & right brain functions are different. To greatly over-simplify, the left brain is analytical; the right brain is intuitive.

 

I suggest that Bigfoot is as intelligent as we are in right brain functions. But he never got around to developing much

left brain function. Or perhaps his left brain developed differently than ours. 

 

He may see us as an unwelcome guest in the woods or even a serious enemy. That didn't motivate him to invent the spear.

He's well able to throw rocks and large chunks of wood.

 

As for sticking a fork in skeptics, I suspect they're a bit too right-brained to get it.

 

(edited by Oonjerah for spacing.)

Just a few things as we seemed to have strayed off the topic of whether the science has stalled.

I believe the whole left brain/right brain thing has been shown to be mostly incorrect (sort of like that "we only use 10% of our brain capacity trope").

Accepting your premise that sasquatches were hunted by man and have thus learned to hide from man; Why then are the majority of reports found civilization-adjacent? Why does sasquatch seem to have a propensity for walking near roads, hiking trails, campgrounds (as per geotherm in this thread). I see not internal logic in sasquatch reports, does it avoid man but not understand what a campsite is, or a road, or vehicles? This inconsistency is yet another reason I feel this is a cultural phenomenon rather than a physical animal.

Gorilla, in the vast majority, have consistent behavior within it's species, as does every other physical animal. Why doesn't sasquatch, if it's flesh and blood. (no woo please. this is a science thread).

 

 

Now, this is a great science question that needs an answer along with many others before sasquatch science is unstalled. We don't have these answers and we can only suppose or theorize.

 

1. What comes to mind is some bigfoots need easy prey such as chickens, cows, or dogs in order to survive.

2. Some bigfoots such as juveniles or out casts have been pushed out of remote habitats by more dominant clans.

3. Bigfoots can't avoid roads and other human elements in order to keep up their migration pattern. This leads to question 3. a. Does bigfoot migrate?

 

It becomes obvious we have more questions than answers.

 

One documentary on TV showed a credentialed biologist studying Snow Leopard in Asia, and he made a great blind. He spent months and months in the cold until he got great videos of the creature.

 

 

The highlighted question above has been discussed here in various threads going back several years.

 

Summarizing the hypothetical source of the conflict and resultant evolution of interspecies attitudes:

 

1.  Bigfoot and hunter-gatherer/early agricultural humans competed for the best and most supportive terrain for food.

2.  Early on, bigfoot would have had an advantage as small groups of each encountered each other during competition.  Bigfoot had the advantage during confrontations.

3.  As humans developed more effective hunting weapons and as human communities grew larger, humans were more effective during confrontations.

4.  Bigfoot, in response grew more stealthy in order to take advantage of shared food sources without being driven off, and more active at night.

5.  Over the centuries/millennia, there were times, climatically that made survival more difficult, so humans became more efficient at gathering large amounts of food available, processing it, and storing it for long winters, etc.

6.  Bigfoot, faced with efficient human collection of prime food sources, were subsequently drawn to human livestock, food stores, and eventually human crops, particularly during harsh winters.  They may even have preyed on humans at times. 

7.  Humans would have responded by attempting to hunt down and drive off bigfoot clans because preservation of their food stores equaled survival.  The oral tradition of Jack the Giant Killer stories probably had their genesis in these times.

8.  As a result, bigfoot became progressively more stealthy, and likely more judicious in how often and how much they took advantage of human food sources, finding the human toleration level, at which humans did not bother to pursue bigfoot to drive them off.

9.  Bigfoot were likely a known and acknowledged species among the Celtic cultures (much as they are by Native American tribes today), but belief in such things was discouraged as a new and dominant culture moved into Europe.  Anything humanoid would have been viewed as demonic in origin because it was a perversion of man's aspect and because man was believed to be made in a certain image. Generation by generation, as the nexus of human culture gravitated toward progressively larger cities, the view that wild men were myth began to dominate, and still does today.  Consider also that many place names with an oral tradition of Wildman encounters include the term devil or something similar in their names.

 

So the history and interspecies evolution is more a result of competition for food than a matter of active conflict.  Bigfoot are still drawn to us because we are an easy source of foodstuffs, but do so with as much stealth as possible to avoid confrontation.

 

lots of supposition. name for me if you will ANY other animal which lives on the edges of modern civilization and yet leaves no hair, scat, bones, blood, is never hit by an vehicle (and has continued to do so with a 100% success rate)? There is no internal logic in your argument, it's all special pleading and supposition.

 

The celtic thing is funny in that it's from an epic poem (sorta' like Beowulf). 

http://www.bfro.net/legends/Iwein.asp

Are you positing poems as part of evidence in a science thread? That says something about the field that I've repeatedly noted. Internal consistency is absent.

There are true science types who are attempting to catalog behaviors so predictions can be made about future behavior so a solution may be found.

Then there are the folks who start adding ancient epic celtic poems out of nowhere and things go from science to..... I have no idea what but it isn't science.

 

I personally feel that those who do this and the portals stuff do NOT want a definitive answer at all. I couldn't begin to guess at the motivations for such a thing but I suppose they vary.

 

So, the example of another animal which displays the characteristics you posit?

Edited January 27, 2016 by Bodhi

[Lake County Bigfooot]

The void we have of real science concerning this creature is what is allowing all this paranormal stuff to enter into the picture, slowly we lose credibility as we allow the field to be taken over by extremes. Where are the Rene Da hindens, the Bob Titmus, the kind of guys whose unswerving passion accomplished more for their day than we have for ours. As I have repeatedly stated, we would do well to learn to track, ride on horseback, and to have dogs trained in pursuing primates, and that is what might level the playing field somewhat. These animals can be tracked, although they might be able to escape through their speed and agility, but stories exist of them being captured in the 1800s, and by men of such skills. We have lost the outdoor skills and horsemanship required. It should not be a surprise that the best single piece of film we have of the creature was taken on horseback, it is something that helps cover up the scent as well as audio signature of humans, I doubt there was any conversation in the minutes leading up to seeing Patty, I think they were just riding along. When we are out in the field they can tell we are human long before we get near them, and they have the upper hand. That needs to be reversed.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Lake County Bigfooot

[Bodhi]

The void we have of real science concerning this creature is what is allowing all this paranormal stuff to enter into the picture, slowly we lose credibility as we allow the field to be taken over by extremes. Where are the Rene Da hindens, the Bob Titmus, the kind of guys whose unswerving passion accomplished more for their day than we have for ours. As I have repeatedly stated, we would do well to learn to track, ride on horseback, and to have dogs trained in pursuing primates, and that is what might level the playing field somewhat. These animals can be tracked, although they might be able to escape through their speed and agility, but stories exist of them being captured in the 1800s, and by men of such skills. We have lost the outdoor skills and horsemanship required. It should not be a surprise that the best single piece of film we have of the creature was taken on horseback, it is something that helps cover up the scent as well as audio signature of humans, I doubt there was any conversation in the minutes leading up to seeing Patty, I think they were just riding along. When we are out in the field they can tell we are human long before we get near them, and they have the upper hand. That needs to be reversed.

It's good to remember that of the old guard neither - John Green, Rene' Dahinden, Bernard Heuvelmans, Ivan Sanderson, Peter Byrne, John Napier, William Charles Osman-Hill, Boris Porshev, Carleton ****, George Agogino NOR Grover Krantz ever had a sighting of sasquatch or yeti. I can't begin to add up the "man-years" this group collectively invested in the search for the either animal. If anyone's interested in looking into the lives of each man, I think you'll find that the search took a pretty heavy toll on each in it's own way as well.

 

I think the seriousness with which the initial claims were taken is sometimes lost, and the true cost to those who made the effort as well.

 

True, many of the first expeditions (specifically the tom slick sponsored ones) in search of the yeti were compromised by u.s. intelligence agencies and slick did himself little good by leaving scientists behind in the u.s. and england (slick, et. al, made the decisions of where to search and what items to send back to the scientists recruited to the team but left back at "home base"). Still though, these were serious (but doomed) endeavors requiring real hardships and lengthy time frames. 

 

When someone states with certainty that science hasn't given a serious look as the sasquatch/yeti it just inidicates to me that either they haven't read much on the subject or that they are being purposely untruthful.

 

(this is not in any way pointed at anyone in this thread and definitely not you L.C.B. - I'm linking to your post simply because your referenced the old guard of sasquatch hunters).

[norseman]

Robert Morgan had a sighting, I would be curious to know how many of the old guard did have sightings.

[southernyahoo]

 

 

People are scared of what can be found about these creatures, Science has stalled cause it does not want to go further. It will open to many doors for man, some doors that should stay closed. This creature steps on way to many opinions, views and if they open this door will even step on creation in a religious way. Is it worth going down that path. Maybe IMO science has chose to stall, and maybe even them have chosen stay hidden.JMOI  

 

 

I think this^ comes into play as well.