Has Bigfoot Science Stalled?

[southernyahoo]

    What people seem to be missing here is that an unknown bipedal mammal with common ancestry at any point, the DNA is going to look very similar to human.      Without an accepted BF DNA type,  DNA labs are not going to know where to look for markers that differentiate BF from other species with common ancestors.     They can tell you it is not a chimpanzee or not a human because they know where to look for markers that define the chimpanzee and human.   That is why we get so many unknown species results or suggestions of human DNA contamination.      It looks sort of human but is missing some modern human markers but yet contains strange ones.    I think some here expect some kind of red light and alarm to go off to alert a lab they have found an unknown species.  Does not work that way.  Most labs would likely assume contamination when something strange is sequenced.  

 

While I agree in the sense that science may not realize it when they are looking at BF DNA, if the species is to be established as a separate species by means of genetic divergence, it would start somewhere in the genes they use to measure divergence , and it's the same genes used in species ID, like the ones used by Sykes.  

 

My sample in the Ketchum study tested human Haplotype T2b. When they have enough DNA to define the DNA at that level, the species is no longer the question. No other ape will register at this depth. They do know where to look in the genome, so make sure you do too.

[Yuchi1]

^^^  IIRC, her samples that were filtered for contaminants and thus the purest she received (~fifteen) all came out as half human (mitachondrial) and the other side (nuclear) as not of any known species.

 

Would also encourage everyone to do some research on why certain entities such as homo sapiens, bury their dead. 

[ShadowBorn]

Again this is Holiday INN stuff for me but the genome would be the vital difference between us and them and apes. This is where the key to life are located with in ours and theirs and all living things on earth DNA dwells. Just as they are discovering with our won DNA they are doing the same with Chimps and Apes with theirs.  The differences with in our genes is what makes the difference between speech, visual, hearing, color, basically the architectural foundation of how we are born. DNA is life whether you like it or not and is the blue print to life.

 

A full strand of bigfoot DNA would say a lot about this creature that we do not understand. A full strand would stand out if isolated  and  if it is not in the gene pool then it should be placed there so that it can be matched with other samples. If you have three to four matching strands of DNA coming back as unknown it should not be tossed to the way side but be looked at thoroughly. Just makes common sense. IMO Now would you not think that this would be the proper way to handle some thing unknown.

   

 My sample in the Ketchum study tested human Haplotype T2b

This pretty much say that it is of European Decent . Which is odd but not really since man did travel north at one time since there have been artifacts found. So on the mother side the mixture could have taken placed by a European man. IMO but who knows I am no geneticist. I wish I was though cause I be all over this like fly's on poo. studying the crap out of it in a lab. It is like a micro switch where you can go into it and turn things on and off if we only had the key. If you want a baby with blue eyes you have it, or a zebra baby you have it. This is what we can get if we go deeper with the creatures DNA. 

[SWWASAS]

DWA - I disagree: science has not come anywhere near establishing a new species. Just because people at the NAWAC claim to have had experiences, without even HD video evidence to go on, who knows what they are seeing? And footprints - they are not proof... Dr. Meldrum is highly suspect in my book as he defends the PGF (which I would rate as having a less than a 1% chance of being real) and associates with Todd Standing. 

 

Sadly, the field of BF research is full of fakery, hoaxing, and more than a few crappy TV shows. It is a kind of joke at this point...

 

Until there is a type specimen, there's no science to be conducted or claimed - just the collection of anecdotes and stories.

 

Which are fine as far as they go for entertainment, but let's all get real for a moment.

Does science end or start when a species is accepted by science?   That collection of anecdotes, stories, stories and footprints you disdain so much will be the basis of learning about BF behavior, habitat,  social culture,  and demographics.   People that have them will be sought out by the academic community who will have a lot of catching up to do if they want to understand the species in the wild.    Data is data is data and the lay and academic skeptics are the ones who are choosing to ignore it at this point in time.     Your claim that no science is or can be conducted is simply not true.     When that BF is on the lab table and the foot can be examined and xrayed,   Meldrum's work can be verified.   He has already done the science, it only needs to be validated.     Certainly he could be wrong on some of this theories but being wrong does not mean you not done science.   The only scientists who are demonstrably wrong are the ones who declare BF a myth without looking at the data.    In my book they are not scientists at all but academic hacks. 

[bipedalist]

It has stalled because despite the efforts of the NAWAC, Olympic Project, BFRO, and many other earnest researchers out there, we still don't have a single piece of hard evidence to work with. .........

I'm very open to the idea of sasquatches being real, but until we have actual proof, the only "science" is in the form of chasing shadows. Honestly, if the NAWAC guys can't bag a type specimen, I'm having a hard time believing it can be done (assuming there is an extant species.) 

 

This is part of your post I can agree with, except the part "if the NAWAC" can't get one. I do believe there is a reason why no one has brought them to the table that is "known".  <insert name of favorite government institution that you think has a body>

 

I am thinking they have been killed in the past and buried for whatever reason by common folk (Peter in Canada comes to mind, not the Sierra joker).

 

 I'm totally believing why people and groups are having such a hard time bagging this extant species and it starts with their neurons and not ours, for starters.  Yes, they couldn't have pulled it off for this long without having an enormous skill set.

 

I do not think the DNA enigma part of it is bumfuzzling science.  It may have bumfuzzled Ketchum but there are other people that can speak to that better than I.  

[Yuchi1]

IMO, one of the most serious fatal flaws is in belief that science finds it's basis in purity of purpose. Nothing could be further from the truth as science is power and that power is sought to be controlled by entities that derive economic and societal benefit from such, often taking the form of government. One such example is the US government's role in the radiation incidents during and post-WWII, agent orange and the Desert Storm health issues, to name a few. The government was finally discovered to have known the science (read; health risks) beforehand but chose to sacrifice lives and let taxpayers foot the bill (settlement funds) after the fact.

 

To wit, have a client whose late husband worked at a plant in Ohio during the span of 1956-1964, with the Dutch Boy Paint sign as the building's logo. However, the worker's there were handling yellowcake for the DoD and sans proper gear for health precautions. This gentleman suffered from a variety of pulmonary and cardiac ailments from that point on and succumbed to those along with other related conditions a few years ago. In 2004, and forty years later, a federal compensatory fund was set up by congress (at taxpayer expense) to pay the victims (or, their survivors) for what was known (scientifically) to happen (to them) decades earlier.

 

In August of 1945, my late father drove a landing craft with a company of US marines in it, up the Sebaso river into the heart of what was left of downtown Nagasaki, two days after the plutonium bomb had been dropped there. The US government/military later professed ignorance on the effects of radiation poisoning yet has subsequently set up yet another victim's compensation fund. The list is seemingly endless (agent orange fund, etc.) and illustrates how the science of these events and products was manipulated/concealed for the sake of expediency, at the time.

 

Much of what's posted above is now common knowledge, so tinfoil hat reference is....irrelevant.

 

Therefore, to place any significant degree of belief on the resolve of mainstream science with regard to the BF enigma is (IMO) to run the Preakness with a hobbled horse as there are likely far too many political and economic interests counter to such an effort.

 

History is another area open to interpretation as (IMO) there are often two (2) versions of such, what is recorded in the textbooks and then, what actually happened.

 

One current example of such was a recent forensic analysis of the battlefield at Little Bighorn wherein the published historical version of Custer's Last Stand was tested versus what the evidence revealed. As is now known, the historical version is significantly flawed when the actual forensic evidence was brought to light and revealed what really transpired on that day.

 

Another is the common belief (we even have a holiday for it) that Christopher Columbus "discovered" America.

 

The late Dr. Covey (WFU) along with a couple other anthropologists in the attempt to translate the oral, isolate Yuchi language into a written form conducted a series of investigations into the root base of this language. One of the significant findings was that the language was predominately Egyptian, with other Mediterranean languages forming minority aspects which would indicate western (north African) migration to the New World, thousands of years earlier than the history textbook version.

 

Therefore, to rely upon mainstream science and history as the basis for discovery and the truth in many instances, can be/has been unreliable.

[georgerm]

 

    What people seem to be missing here is that an unknown bipedal mammal with common ancestry at any point, the DNA is going to look very similar to human.      Without an accepted BF DNA type,  DNA labs are not going to know where to look for markers that differentiate BF from other species with common ancestors.     They can tell you it is not a chimpanzee or not a human because they know where to look for markers that define the chimpanzee and human.   That is why we get so many unknown species results or suggestions of human DNA contamination.      It looks sort of human but is missing some modern human markers but yet contains strange ones.    I think some here expect some kind of red light and alarm to go off to alert a lab they have found an unknown species.  Does not work that way.  Most labs would likely assume contamination when something strange is sequenced.  

 

While I agree in the sense that science may not realize it when they are looking at BF DNA, if the species is to be established as a separate species by means of genetic divergence, it would start somewhere in the genes they use to measure divergence , and it's the same genes used in species ID, like the ones used by Sykes.  

 

My sample in the Ketchum study tested human Haplotype T2b. When they have enough DNA to define the DNA at that level, the species is no longer the question. No other ape will register at this depth. They do know where to look in the genome, so make sure you do too.

 

 

 

"And now we actually have Neanderthal DNA sequences so we could definitely say, this falls within the realm of variation of known Neanderthals which there is over a dozen different Neanderthals have already been sequenced and the complete neanderthal genome should actually be complete within the next year or so." ttp://www.skeptic.c.../02/transcript/

 

Once we have a genome, can't two species be compared such as a gorilla and a bigfoot? When will the bigfoot genome be complete?

Edited January 31, 2016 by georgerm

[BigTreeWalker]

Here's a link that may better explain what researchers are capable of when dealing with an unknown DNA sample. I linked the transcript but it's also available as a podcast. Another good source of DNA info and what's possible can be found right here on the BFF in posts made by hvhart. He will literally walk you step by step through making a BLAST query using Dr. Ketchum's DNA results and what it all means. 

 

http://www.skeptic.com/podcasts/monstertalk/09/07/02/transcript/

After reading that transcript. I get the impression from what Dysotel is saying, that we shouldn't need a type specimen if we have a good DNA sample. So with all the supposed bigfoot samples tested we haven't been able to do what he says is possible. My conclusion there is either we have no real BF DNA samples or what he is saying is not true, in that we haven't been able to identify the distinguishing characteristics which should be present.

[Doc Holliday]

sorry, joining late , but from the op.....

"So how can we help prove bigfoot? Due to mockery and high thresholds of bigfoot proof, university bigfoot study grants seem impossible to attain."

 

simple, provide a tangible piece of hard evidence worth looking into . iow , the sort of thing that would make the world have to sit up and take notice.

as bad as i hate to say it ,  those high thresh holds for proof  and mockery are ,  for the most part , well deserved.

what  with busted hoaxers , tall tales and  big build ups to nothing etc, it doesn't help the cause , lol...

 

over the years i've seen a lot more bad apples in the BFery basket than good ones.

considering that , and without something solid it will always be an uphill battle .

[southernyahoo]

 

Here's a link that may better explain what researchers are capable of when dealing with an unknown DNA sample. I linked the transcript but it's also available as a podcast. Another good source of DNA info and what's possible can be found right here on the BFF in posts made by hvhart. He will literally walk you step by step through making a BLAST query using Dr. Ketchum's DNA results and what it all means. 

 

http://www.skeptic.com/podcasts/monstertalk/09/07/02/transcript/

After reading that transcript. I get the impression from what Dysotel is saying, that we shouldn't need a type specimen if we have a good DNA sample. So with all the supposed bigfoot samples tested we haven't been able to do what he says is possible. My conclusion there is either we have no real BF DNA samples or what he is saying is not true, in that we haven't been able to identify the distinguishing characteristics which should be present.

 

 

Yes , that's what he (Disotell) is saying, barring the possibility BF could be human or part human with a human mitochondrial (maternal) lineage. He does however acknowledge that other primate species have formed through hybridization, and probably accepts that Cro magnon , Neanderthal, and Denisovans cross bred.

[SWWASAS]

Disotell will not accept that any DNA sample is BF unless he has other evidence that the sample is from something other than a known animal.    BF on a lab table someplace.   Then they will do the interpretation of the DNA necessary to determine what the markers they are looking at are telling them.   Up to that point, his game is to tag DNA to known animals.   Given that most of the DNA he is sent are known animals that is not that hard to do.   Throw in human hybridization or close family tree and I do not blame him for that methodology.     We have to realize that anytime DNA sequencing comes up with something strange, the most likely cause is contamination in the field or in the lab.   Both happen all the time.   The other thing he knows full well, is if he jumps to conclusions, he will be just another Melba Ketchum and totally loose his reputation in the scientific community.   Can you blame him for being cautious? 

[JDL]

Since we have Neanderthal and Denisovan DNA ourselves, one could rightly say that we are hybrids.

[xspider1]

^ I think so, JDL.  To the adjective 'hybrid', I might just add: 'likely to have been genetically altered'. 

 

^^^  IIRC, her samples that were filtered for contaminants and thus the purest she received (~fifteen) all came out as half human (mitachondrial) and the other side (nuclear) as not of any known species.

 

Would also encourage everyone to do some research on why certain entities such as homo sapiens, bury their dead. 

 

Doesn't that pretty much say that those samples "could be from bigfoot"?  The only possibilities I see coming from the DNA analysis of any suspected Bigfoot tissue is either:  A.) "No, that tissue is from animal Z" or, B.) "Ok, we don''t know what animal that tissue is from".  Great stuff DNA, but I don't think it can ever prove Bigfoot ver. 1.0 by itself.

[ShadowBorn]

Then let me ask this, How is that the strands of Neanderthal and Denisovan DNA was found in our own DNA ? Yet when it comes to this creatures DNA it gets toss out as contaminated. Stop the excuses and own up to the reality that there is a real creature roaming our forest. You do know that they split those strands in order to figure out species other wise how would we know about our selves. We are getting better at it and new species are showing up all the time in the gene pool and if there is DNA from this creature then stop hiding or stalling science from discovery. JMO Should I say Holiday Inn again where I spent the night.

[georgerm]

"Former lawman turned investigative journalist, David Paulides, detailed a potential breakthrough in Bigfoot DNA research. He explained that, as a result of a five year study, his colleague has been able to “unlock a method to get to the DNA itself and how to test for it†within possible Bigfoot hair samples. As a result of this development, Paulides said, the findings indicate that Bigfoot is a “very unique homo sapien†species and that part of the DNA is “nowhere in the billions of documented DNA ever seen.†He stressed that this testing has eliminated the possibility that Bigfoot are either Neanderthals or large primates and actually reveals that they are “thinking, breathing, intellectual people that are quite different†from humans. "   

 

http://beforeitsnews.com/paranormal/2016/01/bigfoot-exists-dna-evidence-found-17-2502790.html