Has Bigfoot Science Stalled?

[SWWASAS]

Since we have Neanderthal and Denisovan DNA ourselves, one could rightly say that we are hybrids.

I know I am a hybrid but some humans from some parts of the world do not have Neanderthal in their ancestors.     The Neanderthal did not spread very much outside of Europe so a lot of humans do not have any in their ancestry.     We have to realize Neanderthal and Denisovan species are accepted and we have that accepted DNA in the genome bank.    The unknown and unaccepted DNA is BF DNA.    Disotell skates around the possibility that BF may be a human hybrid at some point in the past, primarily because of the bucket of worms that opens up with DNA testing.    Melba may have wanted to go down that rabbit hole but Disotell will not until he is forced to.    The only thing that will force that apparently from what he says,  is some sample from what cannot be anything but BF.    In other words the body on the lab table that requires DNA testing to explain why it is so different than human or other known primates.   He mentions in the interview what he has said in other interviews about BF.   If he has DNA that is interesting but he is not sure what it is, he sends it out to other labs without telling them what it might be.   If he says tells the lab it could be BF, other labs will refuse to test it.    It goes beyond that but remains unsaid in what he says.    If there is any possibility that some sample is BF DNA, and the lab knows this,   their testing results will not support that finding.    If they do not know what they are testing I guess that they just sequence it,  tell Disotell that it is unknown or likely contaminated and give him back the results of the sequencing to look at.    They do not want be the lab that blows the lid off the BF question because it would be years before the finding could be verified by other samples from other sources.    In the mean time the lab that claims to have made the finding will be put into the Melba Ketchum category as far as reputation.    A lab cannot afford to have their credentials questioned for 10 years until they are finally vindicated.   Like it or not most are businesses  want protect to their reputations and to make money.    I say 10 years because BF DNA is so hard to get.    It could very well take longer than that.   Something a lab wants no part of.   

[BigTreeWalker]

^^^^

And that is the reason I think it is a waste of time and money to get a suspected sample tested. No matter how good you think it is.

[Guest DWA]

It is certainly not the way the field should be focusing its time and attention...unless that sample comes from a biopsy dart the target of which has been extensively photographed, video'd...or shot (or found dead, what I'd prefer if we go the death route).

[JDL]

So the societal barrier remains significant as well.  Still think private grants can fix it by involving mainstream scientists.

 

Collectively, the human species has original antecessor DNA, Neanderthal, Denisovan and, as I recall, DNA from a fourth, unidentified species.

 

One would have to take into account that if we are hybrids, then an extant hominid might also be a hybrid with a different mix, including what is considered human DNA.

[JDL]

So an investigator should expect some proportion of human DNA, rather than reject a sample because of it.

Edited February 1, 2016 by JDL

[norseman]

The Bigfoot hybrid theory should be dead........stick a fork in it. Ketchum has been throughly debunked.

We can debate until we are blue in the face about what this creature is and is not. But until we have solid dna or a body to study?

Its all just conjecture.

[Guest Crowlogic]

Meldrum broadsided Ketchum a few days ago.

[SWWASAS]

I just had a thought. Perhaps if the anti-kill crowd would organize like the pro kill people and get into the field looking for bodies or skeletons, they might solve this thing before the kill groups do. Like it or not, I think the thing boils down to a race between the two groups and the possible extinction of the species. The goal is the same, just the methods are different. Other than some organized BFRO groups in various states, and organizations like the Olympic Project, the only other large organized groups I know of are pro kill. The hunt for bodies or skeletons is not dangerous for the hunters in that you are not going to shoot each other accidently, you are not chasing an elusive species around in the dark, and it is less likely that BF will kill you out of self defense. While there may be legal issues with a body or skeleton if it is human or indistinguishable from human, those issues are not nearly as serious as if you shoot something that turns out to be a human variant. And I don't know about you but I don't like to stay up half the night for anything.

Let me propose, organizing a group to search the lahar on the East Side of Mt St Helens, looking for a skeleton washing out of the ash deposits with the spring runoff. That would need to be done this spring, after the road to Ape Canyon is open and we have access. I believe it is closed now because of the snow level. If anyone is interested contact me via PM. I do not know if the road is opened based on a calendar date or simply when the snow allows it to be open. I can check with the Monument on that. The more boots on the ground the more likely we are to find something. As an aside, that is a good place to find footprints if you have not found any yet and there are several reports of vocalizations after people leave the parking area at night.

Edited February 1, 2016 by SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT

[Guest Cryptic Megafauna]

A body won't tell you what is either, nor DNA. There is no Australopithecus DNA and a skeleton from the fossil record is 4 million years out of date.

Though didn't Dr. Meldrum just mention they may have found one that is only 10,000 years old?

Basically the historic present.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Cryptic Megafauna

[Guest DWA]

I just had a thought. Perhaps if the anti-kill crowd would organize like the pro kill people and get into the field looking for bodies or skeletons, they might solve this thing before the kill groups do....The hunt for bodies or skeletons is not dangerous for the hunters in that you are not going to shoot each other accidently, you are not chasing an elusive species around in the dark, and it is less likely that BF will kill you out of self defense. While there may be legal issues with a body or skeleton if it is human or indistinguishable from human, those issues are not nearly as serious as if you shoot something that turns out to be a human variant. And I don't know about you but I don't like to stay up half the night for anything.

The obstacle is the one that pervades the field:  inadequate time available to devote for those most interested, who are esssentially doing it for free.

 

Full-time paid or funded researchers searching for the remains of known apes (one of them gets significant play in Meldrum's book) have testified to how difficult it is.  And of course one of the proponents' counters to the skeptics has long been ...well...how we rarely find corpses of *anything* in the wild.  (I have found a number of dead deer in my neck of the woods, pretty much suburbia, one of them appearing to have died hours, if that, before I found it, not having been touched visibly by scavengers since its death. That however is testimony to how far beyond saturation the deer pop is.  And it still is the only such find I have made.)

 

I'd never discourage it.  One thing I might say to "augment" the search:  how often do hunters find carcasses...that they don't inspect more closely because a bear is on them?  I'd bet that one of those might have been interesting to chase the bear off of, huh?

 

Saskeptic, one of our more staunch, well, that, used to say that he combed streambeds for teeth and bone material whenever he had a chance.  Now there is faith.

[ShadowBorn]

Look I am no PHD but from what I understand about this stuff is that if you have a strand of DNA of unknown, its unknown. It should be added to the Gen Bank and made available so that it can be match with other samples of unknowns. How else can a species be establish! How can many unknowns just stay unknowns or keep being labeled as contamination. So many unknowns from different parts of the nation being contaminated. No, new species scared of it since they are unable to get close to it.  Maybe scared of what those Genes look like since we are making big break through in that area. Adding our human side to it just turned this creature into a top Apex .This scares science. Why reveal some thing this spectacular to the world . So in science best interest stall , including funding or any other project that will bring these creature out in the light. 

[Guest Cryptic Megafauna]

Only a few percent of the genes will be unknown.

I think us and chimps share 98% so you are looking for 2% 

that are neither us, apes, or chimps.

So maybe less than 2%

What I call crude guessing but does not mean it's all that inaccurate.

Say I'm off by 100% it means there are no differences, 4% differences, or negative differences.

And just because I can't resist here is a side beside of Patty and an anatomic reconstruction of a Homo Habilis head.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Cryptic Megafauna

[SWWASAS]

They seem to think now that only about 19,000 genes define human or perform any function. A lot of it is residual junk from our distant past. That number has dropped considerably in the last few years. At one time biologists thought we had 2 million genes but it turns out we have less than a nematode. Are we complimenting someone when we call them a worm? https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/human-genome-shrinks-to-only-19-000-genes-21e2d4d5017e#.pkglpltls

Edited February 1, 2016 by SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT

[Guest Cryptic Megafauna]

190X2

[Oonjerah]

Bryan Sykes often mentions that surface contamination of DNA samples is no longer a problem.

It can be removed without damage to the sample's DNA.  It's old news to him since before he 

wrote The Nature of the Beast.

 

Genetic analysis of hair samples attributed to yeti, bigfoot and other anomalous primates, ~Sykes, etc.

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/281/1789/20140161