Has Bigfoot Science Stalled?

February 3, 2016

With reference to body 'finds' and cover ups:

I just can't get behind and realistically envision a government inspired cover up has happened or would be likely to happen should such evidence present itself. Judging on past performance of most Western governments (in particular societies with genuine freedom of speech and multiple impartial media sources not tied directly to the ruling government/dictatorship) any type of cover up would be woefully inadequate and quickly seen through. There are simply too many weak points and especially with the advent of social media it would be nigh on impossible to prevent every single person involved from creating leaks.

Are you really that confident that the US or Canadian governments could adequately cover up a discovery suggested in #325 above? A great example would be the Edward Snowden case and that was from within the CIA pertaining to highly classified intelligence. If the uppermost powers that be cannot stop that from within their own system, what are the chance of stopping a leak regarding a primate cadaver?

Its a misdemeanor now with a 1000.00 fine.

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/articles/skamania-ordinance.htm

A major univerisy would probably pay your fine and legal fees if you donated the body to their Biology dept.

Hi Norseman,

I know this is on a tangent but how would a law enforcement agency determine that it wasn't shot in self defence? Is there such a situation with regard to Brown Bears for example?

February 3, 2016

Norseman that could include up to a year in jail along with the $1000 fine. I bet popping a juvenile will get you both jail and fine. Celtic you could certainly argue self defense in court. If Smeja really shot a juvenile like he claims, in Skamania County, I think he would do the year in jail too. The young juveniles are really cute and not at all scary. My contention has always been that a shot or found body is likely to end up with you needed to hire a lawyer to either defend yourself or get your body/skeleton back. Finally I wonder how many have been shot and the shooter thought all this through, and decided just to bury the body rather than fight the authorities in court. I would not be surprised if the same thing happens during hunting season. Some hunter accidently shoots another hunter, and decides to just bury the guy rather than defend himself in court. The dead hunter just goes missing.

February 3, 2016

A major univerisy would probably pay your fine and legal fees if you donated the body to their Biology dept.

That also says "up to 1 year in the county jail".

February 3, 2016

I think it would be impossible for any judge to convict a person who has just proven the biological find of the century.

February 3, 2016

Norseman that could include up to a year in jail along with the $1000 fine. I bet popping a juvenile will get you both jail and fine. Celtic you could certainly argue self defense in court. If Smeja really shot a juvenile like he claims, in Skamania County, I think he would do the year in jail too. The young juveniles are really cute and not at all scary. My contention has always been that a shot or found body is likely to end up with you needed to hire a lawyer to either defend yourself or get your body/skeleton back. Finally I wonder how many have been shot and the shooter thought all this through, and decided just to bury the body rather than fight the authorities in court. I would not be surprised if the same thing happens during hunting season. Some hunter accidently shoots another hunter, and decides to just bury the guy rather than defend himself in court. The dead hunter just goes missing.

If you violated the law the jurisdiction would seize the body. So you still don't have your evidence.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Cryptic Megafauna

February 3, 2016

We'll since we're going down the rabbit hole, I do not think you would be arrested for resisting to give the body over, you would simply be neutralized, the body taken away, and if you would not agree to shut up about it, well I think you would be given a list of consequences that are not ones you would likely choose over shutting up. Considering it might mean death or death of loved ones or facing life in an institution being pumped full of drugs or something worse. The men in black are above the law, just like the secret service, you are expendable if you do not cooperate. Some have found that out, turned up missing or supposed to have killed themselves. It is easy for them to cover it all up and it never happened.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Lake County Bigfooot

February 3, 2016

We'll since we're going down the rabbit hole, I do not think you would be arrested for resisting to give the body over, you would simply be neutralized, the body taken away, and if you would not agree to shut up about it, well I think you would be given a list of consequences that are not ones you would likely choose over shutting up. Considering it might mean death or death of loved ones or facing life in an institution being pumped full of drugs or something worse.

More likely the loggers would shoot you as soon as they saw you were a Bigfoot researcher.

*Que up the Deliverance soundtrack*

Edited February 3, 2016 by Cryptic Megafauna

February 3, 2016

I dont have a lot of faith in DNA versus a body. Small samples can be destroyed in one test. Which means that other labs cannot verify your work with tests of their own. Samples get contaminated or lost as well.
DNA will absolutely do it if we can get through the hoops and loops. But a body bypasses all that.

But if DNA is all you have???? Its light years ahead of a plaster cast or grainy photo.

In Australia people have sighted large cats for years. Seen them in rural areas. Found tracks, scat and hair in some cases. They taken grainy photos of them. Some have even sent those samples of hair and scat to various labs to have them confirmed. It some cases it was just dog or goat. A case of mis-identification. Though in some cases the people knew it was a cat. This lead some to even test the labs. The show animal X even did an episode on this. They sent in known Leopard scat and hair. They got it from a zoo. Results came back as dog, Labrador if not mistaken. Known Leopard DNA came back as dog. Now why would I mention this. First off the fact they got it wrong. How does a lab mix up leopard and dog DNA? I'm serious here. Was it a mistake or on purpose. Not saying "its a conspiracy". Though if it was a cover up. If something like a big cat in Australia could lead to that what would the DNA of a large bipedal humanoid do in North America? To the world? DNA is great. Yards ahead of plaster casts and pictures that are so blurred it could be your uncle Angus in a Gram'ma's fur coat after 1 too many. Still it can be wrong. It can be tricked or given a false read. It can be corrupted. A body, well that is harder to deny.

February 4, 2016

IIRC, the ordinance in question was passed not so much because any officials believed in or knew of bf but to dissuade taking shots at what is in all likelihood a Homo (notso) sapiens sapiens.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Kiwakwe

February 4, 2016

I dont have a lot of faith in DNA versus a body. Small samples can be destroyed in one test. Which means that other labs cannot verify your work with tests of their own. Samples get contaminated or lost as well.
DNA will absolutely do it if we can get through the hoops and loops. But a body bypasses all that.

But if DNA is all you have???? Its light years ahead of a plaster cast or grainy photo.

In Australia people have sighted large cats for years. Seen them in rural areas. Found tracks, scat and hair in some cases. They taken grainy photos of them. Some have even sent those samples of hair and scat to various labs to have them confirmed. It some cases it was just dog or goat. A case of mis-identification. Though in some cases the people knew it was a cat. This lead some to even test the labs. The show animal X even did an episode on this. They sent in known Leopard scat and hair. They got it from a zoo. Results came back as dog, Labrador if not mistaken. Known Leopard DNA came back as dog. Now why would I mention this. First off the fact they got it wrong. How does a lab mix up leopard and dog DNA? I'm serious here. Was it a mistake or on purpose. Not saying "its a conspiracy". Though if it was a cover up. If something like a big cat in Australia could lead to that what would the DNA of a large bipedal humanoid do in North America? To the world? DNA is great. Yards ahead of plaster casts and pictures that are so blurred it could be your uncle Angus in a Gram'ma's fur coat after 1 too many. Still it can be wrong. It can be tricked or given a false read. It can be corrupted. A body, well that is harder to deny.

Is this a natural occurrence in Australia would be my first question? if it is then there is some thing wrong with the labs and they are on reliable. I would not be counting on them to do any lab work for anything cause chances are they do not know what they are doing. Not even a lawyer would use them as a lab in a prosecution case. That is very sad and would feel bad for the people being prosecuted for the DNA being used in the prosecution.

Nah DNA is perfect for proving any creature other then having a body by science, anything people say about DNA say that it can not be used to prove a species is a lie. DNA is life and all life has DNA and is how we are differentiated between species. DNA is the working of life, science knows this and this is why it is or has been spending it's time on DNA so that it can know the workings of life, But I am not that smart to know this right.! But yet it is a natural thing to know since it is in us all including every living thing. I can go even deeper but this would break rules of the forum ,But as far as science goes it is all in The Book ( Crypto so be care full) You may break rules on the forum. But I do have an edge and so do others here. They just have not figured out how science has stalled

If DNA can be stalled with a large cat roaming in areas that it is not suppose to be roaming , then what do we expect with DNA from a creature like a yowie or a bigfoot. Tactics of the same caliber except with being more on the offence side. Science being stalled with no funding and no one with large enough credentials searching for these cryptic's only because they already know that it will lead them to a career ending end. Just like they have us amateur researchers who give it there best to come out with the truth to be ignored, but the truth always prevails and when it come to science one cannot lie with it. Science will always tell the truth and that is one thing that we all can count on. Science will never lie because it will always be proven right. This is how science works, you can not hoax science cause science will prove you wrong.

That lab did you some BS and I would never take samples back to that lab knowing what I know now. Was there a control sent to the lab besides the real deal? and was the same sample sent to two labs? to see if the return was the same . This way you would know if there was a agenda in place. I would not have done it just to one lab but to a few labs and this would have gave you an idea that they have an agenda of staying silent of large cats in a given area. One lab is just not good enough to say anything , but I sure would not take anything to that lab for sure since it sounds like BS. Why beat around the bush call it for what it is and be straight forward. We all have a BS meter and it has a limit well I reached mine. DNA is DNA and it can be cleaned up and tested no matter how degraded it may be, we have people with good minds who are capable. Each year new equipment is coming out to test what we could not test the year before. Our advancement in technology is advancing so fast that it is getting harder to understand it. We are entering into AI Artificial Intelligence since when has anyone thought that we would be entering in a age of this.

Everyone who have seen these creatures who have been armed with a high caliber rifle have been scared to shoot one. So what does that say, and the ones that have shot one have left them never to go back. So some thing has these people scared about something that we still do not understand. If they were shot back in the 1800 when they should have been able to drag the creature back into town why did they not do that? At that time no one knew what these creatures were and this is why they were being shot. Native Americans knew about them and knew enough to leave them alone and not start a war with them. Why? Cause of their loss of warriors fighting them. But I am not a historian so this would just be my opinion. But I think I am close.

February 4, 2016

With reference to body 'finds' and cover ups:

I just can't get behind and realistically envision a government inspired cover up has happened or would be likely to happen should such evidence present itself. Judging on past performance of most Western governments (in particular societies with genuine freedom of speech and multiple impartial media sources not tied directly to the ruling government/dictatorship) any type of cover up would be woefully inadequate and quickly seen through. There are simply too many weak points and especially with the advent of social media it would be nigh on impossible to prevent every single person involved from creating leaks.

Are you really that confident that the US or Canadian governments could adequately cover up a discovery suggested in #325 above? A great example would be the Edward Snowden case and that was from within the CIA pertaining to highly classified intelligence. If the uppermost powers that be cannot stop that from within their own system, what are the chance of stopping a leak regarding a primate cadaver?

Its a misdemeanor now with a 1000.00 fine.http://www.bigfootencounters.com/articles/skamania-ordinance.htm

A major univerisy would probably pay your fine and legal fees if you donated the body to their Biology dept.

Hi Norseman,

I know this is on a tangent but how would a law enforcement agency determine that it wasn't shot in self defence? Is there such a situation with regard to Brown Bears for example?

Grizzly bears in the lower 48 are endangered so they will look at you pretty hard. Its a crime scene until your vindicated. A guy in Bonners Ferry Idaho was convicted for shooting one in his backyard. Because he could have stayed in his house. It would all depend on the circumstances and the ballistics. It better show that it was in a charge and close to you and you shot it in a frontal area. Face or chest. A 100 yard broadside shot is not going to go well for you.

February 4, 2016

Thanks Norseman, I didn't realise they were that well legislated.

Best of luck with your hunt also, always enjoy your interesting posts.

February 4, 2016

I dont have a lot of faith in DNA versus a body. Small samples can be destroyed in one test. Which means that other labs cannot verify your work with tests of their own. Samples get contaminated or lost as well.

DNA will absolutely do it if we can get through the hoops and loops. But a body bypasses all that.

But if DNA is all you have???? Its light years ahead of a plaster cast or grainy photo.

For the reasons you state in your first line: plaster casts or grainy photos are, if I am a scientist in a relevant field, far better than a DNA sample.

For the latter I'll say: where's your type specimen? Don't have one? Contamination is my clear dismissal.

I have to explain casts and photos. Experts have virtually verified that the provenance of Patty and many tracks is an unlisted species. The problem is that the society isn't holding science's feet to the fire for that alternative explanation...that they do not have.

That evidence leaves clear markers that rule out a human as the subject, and make fakery such a farfetched explanation that it isn't one.

Edited February 4, 2016 by DWA

February 4, 2016

I dont have a lot of faith in DNA versus a body. Small samples can be destroyed in one test. Which means that other labs cannot verify your work with tests of their own. Samples get contaminated or lost as well.

DNA will absolutely do it if we can get through the hoops and loops. But a body bypasses all that.

But if DNA is all you have???? Its light years ahead of a plaster cast or grainy photo.

In Australia people have sighted large cats for years. Seen them in rural areas. Found tracks, scat and hair in some cases. They taken grainy photos of them. Some have even sent those samples of hair and scat to various labs to have them confirmed. It some cases it was just dog or goat. A case of mis-identification. Though in some cases the people knew it was a cat. This lead some to even test the labs. The show animal X even did an episode on this. They sent in known Leopard scat and hair. They got it from a zoo. Results came back as dog, Labrador if not mistaken. Known Leopard DNA came back as dog. Now why would I mention this. First off the fact they got it wrong. How does a lab mix up leopard and dog DNA? I'm serious here. Was it a mistake or on purpose. Not saying "its a conspiracy". Though if it was a cover up. If something like a big cat in Australia could lead to that what would the DNA of a large bipedal humanoid do in North America? To the world? DNA is great. Yards ahead of plaster casts and pictures that are so blurred it could be your uncle Angus in a Gram'ma's fur coat after 1 too many. Still it can be wrong. It can be tricked or given a false read. It can be corrupted. A body, well that is harder to deny.

Speaking of big cats and rare animals they finally got game camera pictures of a jaguar that has been seen running round in Arizona for years. Beautiful animal. They showed it on the National morning news.

February 4, 2016

I dont have a lot of faith in DNA versus a body. Small samples can be destroyed in one test. Which means that other labs cannot verify your work with tests of their own. Samples get contaminated or lost as well.

DNA will absolutely do it if we can get through the hoops and loops. But a body bypasses all that.

But if DNA is all you have???? Its light years ahead of a plaster cast or grainy photo.

For the reasons you state in your first line: plaster casts or grainy photos are, if I am a scientist in a relevant field, far better than a DNA sample.

For the latter I'll say: where's your type specimen? Don't have one? Contamination is my clear dismissal.

I have to explain casts and photos. Experts have virtually verified that the provenance of Patty and many tracks is an unlisted species. The problem is that the society isn't holding science's feet to the fire for that alternative explanation...that they do not have.

That evidence leaves clear markers that rule out a human as the subject, and make fakery such a farfetched explanation that it isn't one.

Plaster casts and grainy photos can and have been faked.....so they are dismissed immediately. At least DNA gives you a shot at redemption. Or if your pro kill like me? Then photos and footprints are hopefully leading you to the spot where you collect a type specimen. game over.

But by themselves casts and photos are nothing.

Thanks Norseman, I didn't realise they were that well legislated.

Best of luck with your hunt also, always enjoy your interesting posts.

Thank you!

Here is the story I was referencing and I guess I was wrong about the outcome.

http://www.khq.com/story/15413849/charges-dropped-against-bonners-ferry-man-who-killed-grizzly

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