SWWASAS Posted January 22, 2016 BFF Patron Posted January 22, 2016 One possibility that I want to explore this winter season is there is evidence of what looks like a collapsed lava tube in the "Critical Habitat" area. I have attempted to find an opening but the area is very difficult to explore due to the heavy bush, down trees, etc. Without the leaves on underbrush, it will be easier to explore. December had record rain and I did not get out much. The area is in the Middle of the Yacolt Burn, a large fire complex that burned in 1902 and killed 38 people in Washington. Lots of down trees all over the place related to the burn. Like you say, now that I do not have to worry about being growled at, and things sneaking up behind me, I can explore the area more thoroughly. Perhaps there is a hidden opening to the tube I have not found and it was used by BF for some purpose.
hiflier Posted January 22, 2016 Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) Hello SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT, Good luck and be safe then. Wish you could take someone with you like BigTreeWalker or something. I mean why not at this point? Anyway so much has been discussed on this Forum lately about different things like burials and such. It leaves a lot of room, too much actually, for speculation. It sure sounds like there was some basic drive going on there to make BF stay in that small area. Looking for bones is finally gaining some real traction after how long? Lava tube burial sites, cave burial drops. If the reason was to wait out a dying animal to drop it into a tube well, it sounds far fetched. Not the drive to bury as much as are there places that have been used so traditionally by a clan they won't leave it? IDK that sounds even more far fetched LOL but something will click eventually and people like you that are knowledgeable and in the field are the best chance of all for putting the pieces together. Edited January 22, 2016 by hiflier
xspider1 Posted January 22, 2016 Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) Xspider1 Science cannot be the average consensus, otherwise it would not be science. Of course you are right but; the topic was taught Science which very much represents the average consensus, in my opinion. It has always been that way and is, so far, the only way 'they' will have it. To me, it's like much of modern medical practice which (although completely wrong and a major cause of death) is accepted, promoted and even taught as absolute fact. I very much like that there are exceptions to those general rules and very glad to hear it! "Maybe they are meant to stay a mystery for reason, has anyone ever thought of that?" That's too deep for me! (And, I like it.) Edited January 22, 2016 by xspider1
georgerm Posted January 22, 2016 Author Posted January 22, 2016 Scientists are used to working with hard data and the Bigfoot phenomenon doesn't provide much of it. If a group of biologists were to go out into the PNW for a year to look for Sasquatch, chances are they will be disappointed and will feel like they wasted their time. IMO, Sasquatch are real, but there is still a critical question that remains unanswered: what exactly are they? If someone can figure that out the answer to that one question, I think everything else will make sense. If some consistent patterns of behavior were readily evident I feel science might be more open to the idea. Sadly, it's all over the map....literally. In terms of range, diet, sensitivity to humans/civiliztion, diet, etc... Not to mention reports of behavior that would be described as supernatural or inconsistent with other known animals and the acceptance of those reports also hurts. It feels like "we" bear a good portion of the culpability for general attitude of science and the general public toward the subject of sasquatch. The good news is that we can also be the prime movers of change, if we choose to be. We need to be patient and know that bigfoot should eventually be understood and accepted. Once we have biologist going into the woods for long periods, and they use techniques discovered by the habituators, then hard data will come in. Jane Goodall lived with the Chimps for years and was patient. Bigfoot poses a tougher challenge since they probably have the greatest degree of 'forest intelligence' of any animal on earth including humans. Go SWWA: I had more unseen encounters, got things thrown at me, and got growled at when I tried to flush what I heard moving back in the woods. Did not see what growled but simultaneously with that, a tree got broken off right behind me. I was being warned. Logging started in the creek area, moving South from the North towards my encounter and growl location which are only a half mile apart. Passing on your knowledge of bigfoot adds to bigfoot science. Eventually, I hope kids will read all about bigfoot secrets discovered by people like SWWA and other fine biologist on the forum and in colleges. The term 'I hope' is used because we need to take care of Earth's health now or life on the planet could cease. This is not good for bigfoot or us, and all other life forms. 1
ShadowBorn Posted January 22, 2016 Moderator Posted January 22, 2016 Xspider1 I do not want say that I am right but like you said if science is about the average consensus . Then the ones who go against this logic are exiled by science but are the ones who make the most progress. They are the ones who have nothing to loose and all to gain. Science should be a proven fact and not a consensus amongst it's peers. Passing on your knowledge of bigfoot adds to bigfoot science. Eventually, I hope kids will read all about bigfoot secrets discovered by people like SWWA and other fine biologist on the forum and in colleges. The term 'I hope' is used because we need to take care of Earth's health now or life on the planet could cease. This is not good for bigfoot or us, and all other life forms You have no idea how much I agree with you on this. I have nothing against them cutting down lumber since it promotes regrowth which does help the environment. You might not see it right away but it is a slow process. Although these creatures might not see it this way, and maybe it could be due to their dependence on the forest. But as time goes by they too see a difference in the population of herds of deer and elk as well as berries and small game. But this is not what this thread is about so I will not go off topic. What I do like is the fact that you are talking about our kids and how they should get more involved. We have already lived our future and have progressed to a disarray and disorder of our own doing. It is up to our Kids to change their future and the future of science as it pertains to the world that we all live on. We were not meant to live in space cause if we were we would be there living now. So we only have one world to share amongst our selves and that's it, to live out side this world we must take our environment with us. Some how they have (bigfoots) have figured out a way to co-exist with in our world. They learned some thing that we have been trying to figure for thousands of years and still have not been able to get it right. This goes beyond us and amongst the animal kingdom where these creatures seem to belong. Now I am just throwing this out there cause I know that bigfoot science has stalled and it has for the past couple of years. There is just not enough clear enough evidence to clear the existence of this creature. Crowlogic I know that you have been asking for the Habs to come out with what they have so that we can put all this to bed. Maybe there are some trying to do just that but have not been able to get the grand slam. (if you know what I mean) Here is something that I will say in the open , maybe I will catch h*ll for what I will say on a public forum. But for you to understand and this goes to the rest who do not know. I can say that I made a pact with them ,by saying what I m saying I am breaking this pact. I have no idea what the impact will be to what will happen by speaking of this. Only time will tell. But I am of the belief that most who are in contact with them have done the same, and will stick to this pact. I am not sure of the dangers of breaking such a pact and it is not one written in blood nor a contract. I would call it a word , so in a way I am breaking my word to them by telling what I am telling. Sure it will be denied and contested and I do not care. This is so you can have understanding to why they do not come out with the truth. It feels good to get this out of my system, I have been holding it for awhile wanting to say something. I just thought that it was right to say it now. I am very sorry to those who know. This is not for attention, I hope it helps explains to some.
Guest Crowlogic Posted January 22, 2016 Posted January 22, 2016 (edited) I can say that I made a pact with them ,by saying what I m saying I am breaking this pact. I have no idea what the impact will be to what will happen by speaking of this. Only time will tell. But I am of the belief that most who are in contact with them have done the same, and will stick to this pact. I am not sure of the dangers of breaking such a pact and it is not one written in blood nor a contract. I would call it a word , so in a way I am breaking my word to them by telling what I am telling. Sure it will be denied and contested and I do not care. This is so you can have understanding to why they do not come out with the truth. It feels good to get this out of my system, I have been holding it for awhile wanting to say something. I just thought that it was right to say it now. I am very sorry to those who know. This is not for attention, I hope it helps explains to some. Right here sums up perfectly modern bigfoot conundrum. As I read the "made a pact with them" I heard in my mind the theme to the Twilight Zone. When I see most of the videos and the presenters of the videos I hear the theme from Deliverance. In all honesty the poster of those words paints a picture that boarders on either creating a fantasy world for themselves with this or is knowingly presenting something they otherwise know is improbable in the extreme. Does the poster know how "out there " that sounds? To put it in the serious human real world perspective the poster has these un presentable contacts with mysterious animals and communicates them to the point that they make an agreement with those animals. Now with those animals presumably not on the internet the poster fears that even this communication to us about them may affect the relationship with these beings. If they are not on this forum then are they making Vulcan mind melds or something similar? I'll leave the strength of my opinion as to the credibility of this with hearing the Twilight Zone theme although that does not approach my opinion. Bigfoot science is torn between Deliverance and The Twilight Zone and neither one is within the jurisdiction of real science. Edited January 22, 2016 by Crowlogic
ShadowBorn Posted January 23, 2016 Moderator Posted January 23, 2016 Crowlogic Is it not insane to keep going with the same science that has been going on and getting the same results time after time. Yet these people who are having contact and I cannot include my self since it is not on a daily basis are having success. Why? they must be doing some thing right or they might not be having the success that they are. But will we ever hear by them in our life time, I am willing to bet that no. Off all the times that I have tried to get other people to experience what I have in my area they(creatures) stop coming around. There is no fantasy like you say, besides this thread is about why Bigfoot science has stalled? Bigfoot science has stalled for not willing to try those on charted waters , you know the ones that people have been saying for years. This unwillingness to bring down your shields and truly open up to this idea that has been explored and proven in labs, well just isn't going to help. I do not feel that I am disconnected as you would like to put it, I feel like I am very grounded. One reason I feel grounded is that there are witnesses in my case who have experience ,so this leaves me at peace. At least I was able to share what I could . Science has stalled cause it no longer has no where to turn too and now needs something new. I gave up trying to capture a photo, video, audio and that was due to them leaving the area when I tried. Bringing new people in was worse and this would leave me with if they would ever return. so you tell me if it was fantasy. It is a learning process that takes time with mistakes and not all are the same. There has to be a solution right. Well
bipedalist Posted January 23, 2016 BFF Patron Posted January 23, 2016 Ask me again after Finding Bigfoot at Ft. Stewart, GA on Sunday night?! LOL.
MIB Posted January 23, 2016 Moderator Posted January 23, 2016 Peeps ... science has not stalled. It's just not giving us the instant gratification we feel entitled to. (There's some deliberate judgment in those words.) We ... some of us, anyway ... are doing the correct thing: we don't have the answers yet so we keep looking. We do new stuff when we think of it, we repeat the old stuff when we don't. No matter what the scoftics want to tell us, we have not failed until we give up. The chase doesn't end on their timetables or by their rules. They can quit, walk away, scoff, whatever they do ... doesn't matter. That's about their search. Not mine. And not yours unless you allow it. MIB 3
hiflier Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 Hello All, Believe me when I say it would be much easier if science would take the reins on this. I end up having to take long breaks from the intensity of the research. I learn a lot about different things of course but I end up to far ahead of the data and need time for the information to dovetail into the picture. Until then it's just bits of data without taking the time to weed through and plug in what fits. I try not to force things to fit my own picture but rather endeavor to let the pieces float around until that click on their own. It took me two years to develop the idea that Patty could have very well been pregnant. It was because of all the loose ends floating around that one day came together. It doesn't mean I'm right. It just means that I don't give up. But in not giving up I need to get away from things occasionally and stop doing research and just freefall with whatever I learn or discover and relax with it. I do so wish science could take this from here but so far I haven't been able to see where I could trust it to do so.
Guest DWA Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 Peeps ... science has not stalled. It's just not giving us the instant gratification we feel entitled to. (There's some deliberate judgment in those words.) We ... some of us, anyway ... are doing the correct thing: we don't have the answers yet so we keep looking. We do new stuff when we think of it, we repeat the old stuff when we don't. No matter what the scoftics want to tell us, we have not failed until we give up. The chase doesn't end on their timetables or by their rules. They can quit, walk away, scoff, whatever they do ... doesn't matter. That's about their search. Not mine. And not yours unless you allow it. MIB Well, yeah, that is true. Science isn't a body of knowledge closely guarded by Anointed. It is a process, done on evidence, by, well, folk. And it can't be stopped...unless the folk stop it.
georgerm Posted January 23, 2016 Author Posted January 23, 2016 ................................. I gave up trying to capture a photo, video, audio and that was due to them leaving the area when I tried. Bringing new people in was worse and this would leave me with if they would ever return. so you tell me if it was fantasy. It is a learning process that takes time with mistakes and not all are the same. There has to be a solution right. .......................... It appears to me your head and heart are in the right research mode. A bigfoot that we are 'friends' with must look us over closely for cameras, guns, recorders and strangers. If we break their rules or the 'pack' then we are punished when they drop us cold. This is bigfoot science to write down. Bigfoot science seems to be stalled except in the area of techniques that brings about friendly contact. Please be careful while doing this type of research. If BF is growling, and throwing stuff, the attempted contact should be stopped. Leave some toys and food and back out of the area. Hang the food 9' up in a tree. The next time they may allow contact. Be safe and not a 411 statistic. Ask me again after Finding Bigfoot at Ft. Stewart, GA on Sunday night?! LOL. Can you elaborate more? Peeps ... science has not stalled. It's just not giving us the instant gratification we feel entitled to. (There's some deliberate judgment in those words.) We ... some of us, anyway ... are doing the correct thing: we don't have the answers yet so we keep looking. We do new stuff when we think of it, we repeat the old stuff when we don't. No matter what the scoftics want to tell us, we have not failed until we give up. The chase doesn't end on their timetables or by their rules. They can quit, walk away, scoff, whatever they do ... doesn't matter. That's about their search. Not mine. And not yours unless you allow it. MIB If science seems stalled, this is no reason to give up. When the going gets tough, the tough get going. It we believe in the bigfoot cause, then keep putting one foot in front of the other. Someone will eventually discover this mystery creature. Does anyone remember the story of Jako? A small bigfoot slipped down a cliff and landed on the railroad tracks. The train engineers took it and the record goes cold. If this happens again, maybe the bigfoot will go to someone like Meldrum or Ketchum and many other qualified researchers. What direction should bigfoot research go in? How can we get the public to understand and accept what bigfooters have learned? How can we get university trained and well funded biologist to join us? What will happen to bigfoot once it's proven so mainstream science accepts it?
BigTreeWalker Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 If science seems stalled, this is no reason to give up. When the going gets tough, the tough get going. It we believe in the bigfoot cause, then keep putting one foot in front of the other. Someone will eventually discover this mystery creature. Does anyone remember the story of Jako? A small bigfoot slipped down a cliff and landed on the railroad tracks. The train engineers took it and the record goes cold. If this happens again, maybe the bigfoot will go to someone like Meldrum or Ketchum and many other qualified researchers. What direction should bigfoot research go in? In order to get the interest of the scientific community in general, get it out of the paranormal and into the physical realm. There will be and is physical evidence available. How can we get the public to understand and accept what bigfooters have learned? The big thing I see is there is no consensus and a whole lot of infighting in the field. How can we get university trained and well funded biologist to join us? University trained yes. Well funded, not really. But until funding for bigfoot (probably only after official discovery) is available we have to make due with what we have. What will happen to bigfoot once it's proven so mainstream science accepts it? Probably not much change for bigfoot. I fear the change will be for those who enjoy spending time in the outdoors. This question could use a thread of its own.
Explorer Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) There is no such thing as Bigfoot science. All there is, is the application of proven scientific principles, methods, and techniques for the investigation of an anomaly. The problem is with the anomaly itself; that appears to be weirder than most early BF investigators thought. The multiplicity of strategies that have been attempted to get reliable/uncontested physical evidence have all failed. Failure has not been because of lack of trying, effort, or application of creative ways. The scientific community should not get involved unless good physical evidence is presented (foot-print casts, blurry photos, controversial videos, and anecdotal stories don't have much evidentiary weight). Thus, I don't blame the scientific community for not getting involved nor I blame the BF investigating community for not trying. There is a reason why Bigfoot is part of the Cryptozoology and considered an anomaly - it is a tough nut to crack. If it was easy, then regular good old wildlife biologists and zoologists would have confirmed its existence long ago. It is stuff like this below, that makes it even harder for scientist to even look at the meager evidence, I can say that I made a pact with them ,by saying what I m saying I am breaking this pact. I have no idea what the impact will be to what will happen by speaking of this. Only time will tell. But I am of the belief that most who are in contact with them have done the same, and will stick to this pact. I am not sure of the dangers of breaking such a pact and it is not one written in blood nor a contract. I would call it a word , so in a way I am breaking my word to them by telling what I am telling. Sure it will be denied and contested and I do not care. This is so you can have understanding to why they do not come out with the truth. It feels good to get this out of my system, I have been holding it for awhile wanting to say something. I just thought that it was right to say it now. I am very sorry to those who know. This is not for attention, I hope it helps explains to some. Regardless of whether ShadowBorn's claim is true or false, it makes the field look weirder: If true, the anomaly is weirder and stranger than many think. And, applying standard scientific methods will prove harder to uncover the truth. If false, it shows that the field is contaminated with many bizarre, unsubstantiated stories, that raise doubts about the whole field. Edited January 23, 2016 by Explorer 3
JDL Posted January 23, 2016 Posted January 23, 2016 I can say that I made a pact with them ,by saying what I m saying I am breaking this pact. I have no idea what the impact will be to what will happen by speaking of this. Only time will tell. But I am of the belief that most who are in contact with them have done the same, and will stick to this pact. I am not sure of the dangers of breaking such a pact and it is not one written in blood nor a contract. I would call it a word , so in a way I am breaking my word to them by telling what I am telling. Sure it will be denied and contested and I do not care. This is so you can have understanding to why they do not come out with the truth. It feels good to get this out of my system, I have been holding it for awhile wanting to say something. I just thought that it was right to say it now. I am very sorry to those who know. This is not for attention, I hope it helps explains to some. Right here sums up perfectly modern bigfoot conundrum. As I read the "made a pact with them" I heard in my mind the theme to the Twilight Zone. When I see most of the videos and the presenters of the videos I hear the theme from Deliverance. In all honesty the poster of those words paints a picture that boarders on either creating a fantasy world for themselves with this or is knowingly presenting something they otherwise know is improbable in the extreme. Does the poster know how "out there " that sounds? To put it in the serious human real world perspective the poster has these un presentable contacts with mysterious animals and communicates them to the point that they make an agreement with those animals. Now with those animals presumably not on the internet the poster fears that even this communication to us about them may affect the relationship with these beings. If they are not on this forum then are they making Vulcan mind melds or something similar? I'll leave the strength of my opinion as to the credibility of this with hearing the Twilight Zone theme although that does not approach my opinion. Bigfoot science is torn between Deliverance and The Twilight Zone and neither one is within the jurisdiction of real science. I have to concur. I've never had one speak to me either verbally or mentally. And for the record, I'm skeptical about mental communication in general.
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