Has Bigfoot Science Stalled?

[hiflier]

Hello All,

 

Slow morning for me LOL. But how about a shift in the whole thing? This isn't to say that the farther out stuff isn't true as Explorer mentioned. It's just that perhaps holding back on that aspect by everyone would bring the subject more in line to help generate a more mainstream interest. Let the reports and what physical evidence there s speak for itself. Have none of us ever held back information if it meant we could accomplish a personal goal of some kind?

 

It would take a wide consensus knowing of this stepped down program to help out. It might also go a long way in the mediua as well as giving better credibility to academics as well as anthropologists. I of course didn't think of this approach and I'd like to thank and give credit to the member who did. But it rings true as a way forward and so I'm all for it. I have tried to keep the threads I start as much in the realm of scientific investigation and hypothesis as I possibly could as have many others here.

 

We probably should give this some serious consideration now because it will take some time for any public mindshift on the subject as a serious pursuit.

[Twist]

There is no such thing as Bigfoot science.

 

All there is, is the application of proven scientific principles, methods, and techniques for the investigation of an anomaly.

 

The problem is with the anomaly itself; that appears to be weirder than most early BF investigators thought.

 

The multiplicity of strategies that have been attempted to get reliable/uncontested physical evidence have all failed.

Failure has not been because of lack of trying, effort, or application of creative ways.

 

The scientific community should not get involved unless good physical evidence is presented (foot-print casts, blurry photos, controversial videos, and anecdotal stories don't have much evidentiary weight).

Thus, I don't blame the scientific community for not getting involved nor I blame the BF investigating community for not trying.

 

There is a reason why Bigfoot is part of the Cryptozoology and considered an anomaly - it is a tough nut to crack.

If it was easy, then regular good old wildlife biologists and zoologists would have confirmed its existence long ago.

 

It is stuff like this below, that makes it even harder for scientist to even look at the meager evidence,

 

I can say that I made a pact with them ,by saying what I m saying I am breaking this pact. I have no idea what the impact will be to what will happen by speaking of this. Only time will tell. But I am of the belief that most who are in contact with them have done the same, and will stick to this pact. I am not sure of the dangers of breaking such a pact and it is not one written in blood nor a contract. I would call it a word , so in a way I am breaking my word to them by telling what I am telling. Sure it will be denied and contested and I do not care. This is so you can have understanding to why they do not come out with the truth. It feels good to get this out of my system, I have been holding it for awhile wanting to say something. I just thought that it was right to say it now. I am very sorry to those who know. This is not for attention, I hope it helps explains to some. 

 

Regardless of whether ShadowBorn's claim is true or false, it makes the field look weirder:

If true, the anomaly is weirder and stranger than many think.  And, applying standard scientific methods will prove harder to uncover the truth.

If false, it shows that the field is contaminated with many bizarre, unsubstantiated stories, that raise doubts about the whole field.

 

+1, very well put Explorer.  

 

The BF community has done a lot of good things in trying to debunk this phenomenon in regards to field research and various "angles of attack" so to say.  Where the BF community shoots itself in the foot is when speaking on the multiple hoaxes and scams put out there by various people/groups as well as the claims made by the more paranormal side of it in regards to portals and psychic communications, I'd even go as far to include "zapping" in this.  

 

As hiflier stated, the BF community as a whole would be better off to focus only on tangible, and verifiable evidence to prove this animal exists.  Get the ball rolling scientifically with known means of evidence that the scientific community is comfortable and knowledgeable in working with.  IF, the animal is proven to exist, the rest regarding the paranormal side of things will work themselves out IMO.   

[hiflier]

Hello Twist,

 

IF, the animal is proven to exist, the rest regarding the paranormal side of things will work themselves out IMO.   

 

 

Couldn't have said better myself We cannot let the members on the farther paranormal side of the subject slip through the cracks. It's the best way to recognize their experiences and efforts on everyone's behalf. And I agree it will work itself out by being able to have science work on the issue of physical existence first. Who knows it maybe science itself that discovers the more esoteric side although across the board it is something it shies away from in nearly all subjects. John Green, Dr. Krantz, and Dr. Meldrum study the physical evidence and have led the way regarding accepted scientific methods of investigation. And even though their efforts have fallen short we probably should have a program or path that follows suit..   

[MIB]

Hmmmm ... no.   You're not getting it.   Go back to post #84. 

 

I said

 

 

No matter what the scoftics want to tell us, we have not failed until we give up.   The chase doesn't end on their timetables or by their rules.   They can quit, walk away, scoff, whatever they do ... doesn't matter.   That's about their search.  Not mine.  And not yours unless you allow it.

 

This applies to you as well.   You can choose to wear blinders regarding the potential paranormal aspects.   My chase does not end on your timetable or proceed by your limitations, either.   You can quit, walk away, scoff, or whatever you do ... doesn't matter.

 

The truth is not subject to your approval.   If you are not searching for it WHEREVER it goes, you are not searching for TRUTH at all, merely for personal validation.  Back to the original question ... it seems that for you, yes, science stalled ... when you abandoned it.

 

MIB

Edited January 23, 2016 by MIB

[Twist]

Ok Mulder, your right the truth is out there....

 

Who has given up?  By asking if science has stalled is in no way throwing in the towel, if anything it can be a means of take an introspective view and decide what has to be done to jump start it again.  

 

Who is putting on blinders regarding the paranormal aspect?  That is an unfair speculative point on your end.  The subject of this topic is about SCIENCE and its impact on BF, at least that is how I take it.  It's not wrong to state that for the sake of getting BF to be a proven by SCIENCE we need to get it recognized by SCIENTIFIC means.  Sorry, not to knock the paranormal but modern science has not ever proven psychic powers to exist in humans or animals.  They have not proven portals to exist in any way, that is not to say they dont BUT they are NOT acknowledged by science.   What COULD hurt getting mainstream scientist into the mix on BF is the claims of all the paranormal stuff because they do not acknowledge it, thus making some shy away.

 

As evident by the quote below, I am implying, let science find BF using the methods they feel comfortable, i.e. tangible, and verifiable evidence.  From there, if the paranormal qualities do in fact exist then maybe BF will be the discovery that brings the paranormal aspect to a front with science and provides irrefutable evidence.  

 

 

Hello Twist,

 

IF, the animal is proven to exist, the rest regarding the paranormal side of things will work themselves out IMO.   

 

 

Couldn't have said better myself We cannot let the members on the farther paranormal side of the subject slip through the cracks. It's the best way to recognize their experiences and efforts on everyone's behalf. And I agree it will work itself out by being able to have science work on the issue of physical existence first. Who knows it maybe science itself that discovers the more esoteric side although across the board it is something it shies away from in nearly all subjects. John Green, Dr. Krantz, and Dr. Meldrum study the physical evidence and have led the way regarding accepted scientific methods of investigation. And even though their efforts have fallen short we probably should have a program or path that follows suit..   

Edited January 23, 2016 by TWlST

[ShadowBorn]

 let science find BF using the methods they feel comfortable, i.e. tangible, and verifiable evidence.  From there, if the paranormal qualities do in fact exist then maybe BF will be the discovery that brings the paranormal aspect to a front with science and provides irrefutable evidence

Twist

I totally agree with you here on this, it should be done at a pace or method of feeling comfortable with it. No one feels comfortable about other things yet they still talk about it so what is the difference of science moving forward in this field. Yes , I did call it a field since it can be related to research done by amateurs since there is no pro. So in a way I new form of science is being created , people feel uncomfortable about this.

 

MIB is right and not cause I am defending him but he has found his own way of research. Some times we have to do what feels uncomfortable to get results, does not mean it has to be paranormal or anything of that type. All I can say is that we have no control of when or where it happens but it happens. Then Bigfoot science By definition would what ?   It would have to be created . 

[BigTreeWalker]

I have no problem with the paranormal, people experience it. Though I have not. But science is currently not able to verify it one way or another. Wildlife Biology is about animal behavior in the field. Bigfoot being more elusive than most (all) other animals out there compounds the process immensely. Since it is what is referred to as citizen science, all of us in the field must be aware of the possibilities of evidence an extant individual leaves behind as it moves, feeds and other things it does to guarantee its survival. One thing is for sure, sasquatch will never be easy to study.

I also know there are a lot of people here that want to discuss bigfoot. That is the purpose of this forum. But among those, there are also individuals by their own admission that cover up found evidence. Great, it's a free country. But that attitude does nothing for the furtherance of science and only slows the process. So that is another problem for those that desire discovery.

[Guest DWA]

Too many in this field have something they need this to be.  That isn't how science works.  It is what it is; the job of science is to unravel that.

 

Today's paranormal is tomorrow's normal.  I personally am not searching along that avenue; it appears to lack frequency and coherence, two important scientific scent markers.  But I consider the jury out on all of this.  That's not only the fun way to proceed.  It's the only acceptable scientific way.  Those who think that things must of necessity be ruled out need to reconsider how science works.

[Patterson-Gimlin]

Yes, the science has stalled. The time, money and research has failed to produce measurable results.

Proof of existence remains elusive. Now that the physical window has all but been closed. The paranormal becomes the normal.

[Guest DWA]

The physical window has certainly been closed.  The evidence - after significant scientific scrutiny - says the animal is real.

 

The science really isn't so much "stalled" - which I might have said earlier - as it is "done."  It simply has not been addressed by the mainstream.  That is the stall.

 

There can be no doubt among those familiar with the evidence that a new species - at least - awaits classification.  And sure enough, I have run into no one with my level or greater of familiarity with the evidence that doubts it.

 

The mainstream's getting on board?  That's the stall in bigfoot science.

[Patterson-Gimlin]

↑↑

The evidence - after significant scientific scrutiny - says the animal is real.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

I certainly admire your persistence.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Patterson-Gimlin

[FarArcher]

What a mess.

 

We have folks who have never seen one really well and close, they say they don't believe they exist, and yet some are right here.  Which begs the question - why?

 

Then we have folks who have never seen one really well, and close-in, but through research and weighing the narratives they do believe they exist.

 

Then we have folks who've had some experiences - sounds, yelps, crashing noises, stalking on the periphery, thrown rocks etc., but they've never seen one really well, and up close - but they too, believe they've had experiences with BF.

 

Then there's the few.  Those who due entirely to no fault of their own, HAVE seen at least one really well, and really close-in - yet they're entirely dismissed by the first group.  They often enough just read and ponder exactly what they think these things are - based on observance and the circumstances of their experience.

 

Science?  It's neither advancing nor retreating.  It's a non-issue as far as "science" is concerned.  They don't exist.  And "science" has created a carefully crafted narrative of human history, development, divergence from apes, distribution, and migration that absolutely cannot allow a large, relict species to exist.

 

So skeptics skeptic, believers believe, and knowers know.

Edited January 24, 2016 by FarArcher

[Yuchi1]

Too many in this field have something they need this to be.  That isn't how science works.  It is what it is; the job of science is to unravel that.

 

Today's paranormal is tomorrow's normal.  I personally am not searching along that avenue; it appears to lack frequency and coherence, two important scientific scent markers.  But I consider the jury out on all of this.  That's not only the fun way to proceed.  It's the only acceptable scientific way.  Those who think that things must of necessity be ruled out need to reconsider how science works.

 

What we "know" today may be tomorrow's antiquated belief systems.  If Einstein was correct in that time and space can bend, who knows what is going to be the ultimate truth.

[Guest DWA]

↑↑

The evidence - after significant scientific scrutiny - says the animal is real.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

But that statement is blatantly in contradiction of the evidence.  I really can't help that.  It just is.

I certainly admire your persistence.

 

Hey, it's cool knowing something most of the world doesn't.  There is nothing to persist in when one knows what the evidence says.

[hiflier]

Hello DWA,
 

Hey, it's cool knowing something most of the world doesn't...

 
And that "something "...... izzzz......what exactly?

 

Key word here: "exactly"