SWWASAS Posted February 1, 2016 BFF Patron Share Posted February 1, 2016 ShadowBorn is it Wolverines or BF that seek you out? Either would be remarkable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowBorn Posted February 1, 2016 Moderator Share Posted February 1, 2016 Nonetheless, how many BFRO expeditions and research trips have occurred over the last 20 years in WA with no visual sighting to report? I guess thousands and thousands of man hours. I can't speak specifically to what is going on in Washington but there are other factors. Sightings, encounters, wood knocks, and track finds that happen on BFRO expeditions and scouting trips don't end up as public BFRO reports. If public, those reports could expose locations that the BFRO would prefer not to disclose. To find out all that happens during those trips you either need to read through the public BFRO Expedition reports where location is not specified, or be a part of the actual expedition. Here is a link to past expedition reports. http://s2.excoboard.com/BFRO/150505 It seems that not every expedition gets a report. I suppose it depends on the organizer. Just guessing based on my experience or lack of it with BFRO expeditions if expeditions had BF contact they would be posted on the BFRO website. They do not need to disclose locations to do that other than specify which expedition it happened on. Now and then they report finding a footprint or hearing a tree knock on an expedition. If someone had a sighting or got a picture it would certainly be posted on their website trying to encourage others to sign up for expeditions. One of my footprints finds was the result of a Matt Moneymaker posting on their website. He reported a BF campground stalker at a nearby Washington campground. I went up there a couple of days later and found a BF footprint along the shore of the nearby lake. SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT I know of some one who went down to a BFRO Georgia expedition and he liked it. I just do not like the idea that you are paying for a guided tour that one can do themselves. But I understand that some people do not have the knowledge of being in the forest or understand what they are dealing with. It is that once that money is exchange your responsible for the people in the group. The more and more we mess with these creatures who knows how much they will tolerate. If you look at history , they were shot every so often back then. so they grouped when they hunted themselves as they evolved our aggression towards them grew so theirs begin to become intolerable. By throwing rocks, destroying camp sites and even killing people. Now we are all over the woods trying to act like them and trying to communicate with them. Where is their behavior now EVOIDANCE. They are evolving around us (IMO). ShadowBorn is it Wolverines or BF that seek you out? Either would be remarkable. BF ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DWA Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Continuing to talk about the evidence and the right way to look at it. As I consider the animal pretty much proven, and the scientists actually working this beat agree, that is sufficient for me. (And once again: proven in science doesn't have to be to the uninformed; it only has to be to those paying attention.) And, of course, continuing - as I have done from Day One here - to show how bigfoot skepticism is a whole lot further removed from the proper practice of science than astrology is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted February 1, 2016 Admin Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 Unfortunately most scientists all agree its far from proven and we still have our work cut out for us...... When the USFW acknowledges this creature then we can all claim victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWWASAS Posted February 1, 2016 BFF Patron Share Posted February 1, 2016 A BFRO expedition is more than a guided tour. I would even recommend it if you are new to BF research as long as you take their field methods with a grain of salt. They give classes in casting and things like that. Certainly it allows people with no BF researcher contacts to form associations. What bothers me with respect to BF is that if the local BF don't just move away from the area, they probably do not like a flock of humans running around looking for their footprints. BF being hunter-gatherers likely understand the significance of footprints if they are nearly as smart as people give them credit for. I have seen plenty of evidence that they go to great lengths to avoid leaving footprints. As hunters themselves, I do not think they like to be hunted even it is only to get their picture taken or find their footprints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DWA Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 (edited) Unfortunately most scientists all agree its far from proven and we still have our work cut out for us...... When the USFW acknowledges this creature then we can all claim victory. Oh, we're chipping away at a nasty big edifice, for sure. But at least I see chips fly every year, in terms of one or two or so more people with dedication and chops opening their minds up about this. I think that the next step, other than somebody getting extremely lucky, is Meldrum working to get that field guide of his included in standard-issue biosurveys. Edited February 1, 2016 by DWA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgerm Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 DWA, let the chips fly. As Norse said, if the Forest Service comes out and states bigfoot is real, bigfoot science would jump forward. Any of the following would help. Bigfoot DNA is proven and accepted by top geneticist. Getting a deceased bigfoot Capturing a bigfoot A bigfoot science paper by a PHD biologist that lays out evidence needs to be written. A good science journal should publish the report that is accepted by other biologist. The Forest Service comes out and states bigfoot is real. A bigfoot simply walks into town! If the forest service and national park service was put under pressure to divulge what it knows about BF, we might get somewhere. Their names get no caps! It’s their duty to inform and protect the public. Each year a number of Americans get scared out of their wits when they stumble into a bigfoot. Some have reported PTSD. Some have reported being kidnapped. The park service is not collecting data on missing people. Where are they going? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xspider1 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) ^ ^^ ^^^ that's very interesting (and some of it, scary) stuff ya'll said Has there ever been a single paper published in a major scientific journal that even tried to explain the truth about Bigfoot, as we know it? Because, as we know it; Bigfoot are large, hairy, elusive, perhaps scarce, bi-pedal primates that have not yet been fully explained by Science, right? A good, peer-reviewed paper that basically says: 'Bigfoot: denying that these animals exist, doesn't cut it anymore' might accelerate the search for proof. Edited February 2, 2016 by xspider1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIB Posted February 2, 2016 Moderator Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) True, but you have to find a reputable publication willing to review it. Look what Ketchum wound up doing when she couldn't get her paper through the established process. There's something of a catch-22 going on here. How do you get something reviewed if the reviewers refuse to review it? It has to somehow find a level of credibility before it's credibility will be given a fair hearing. MIB Edited February 2, 2016 by MIB 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowBorn Posted February 2, 2016 Moderator Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) Oh, I am with you there MIB. All we have to do is throw them a corpse and it is done. No more , Finish! But they are just not that easy and are not going to give up their secrets that easy. I believe that their secrets have been sitting in a lab for some time collecting dust and that's where it will remain. IMO but for each their own I guess. Wow ! I have reached a thousand post not that I care but still that is cool. Edited February 2, 2016 by ShadowBorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake County Bigfooot Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) Being a hunter as well as a biologist I look for animal sign whenever I'm in the outdoors. Tracks, scat, sign of feeding, etc. It is no different for bigfoot. If they are in the area you may find some sign of their passing. Whether they migrate or not, I don't know. But I do know that they move around through large areas. Much the same as many other apex predators do. Those that wonder why you can't track a bigfoot to confrontation aren't familiar with the problems encountered when tracking any animal. I've followed cougars for miles on hiking trails to lose them when they jump from the trail to a log and disappear into the forest. In certain areas I would always find tracks, but this time or year I plan on looking for new tracks around this time of year. It has not snowed much In Michigan or at least the lower part. Just planning on spending time with my 12 year old son scouting. You should see my GPS some times when I find a print and start tracking it, you see a straight line then a bunch of circles then another straight line then again with a bunch of circles. Anyhow I have great blood pressure and it is a great work out tracking them. So tell you what if I ever catch up to one I am going to thank the cr*p out of it for keeping me in shape. So where are you finding tracks, I have been looking in my area for a while, but mainly near developed trails, do you follow streams or rivers? I know they use them in my area, but when and where is always in question, do you go to hot spots with clusters of sightings, I have thought about spending some time doing that, but the driving eats up so much of the time I have to research. Edited February 2, 2016 by Lake County Bigfooot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowBorn Posted February 2, 2016 Moderator Share Posted February 2, 2016 They will use trails to hide tracks if the ground is hard enough but if you know how to track through the bush with a compass or GPS. Then go into the bush and look hard where you believe that they are present. I have found them on ridges along lakes where deer tend to move, if you can understand deer then you will start to be able to follow them on how they hunt. If you act like a deer hunter they will start to watch you. For my self it just happen where they found me. Believe I tried to escape them from up north, so I wanted to go into some virgin woods where I could get use to the normal sounds of the woods. That did not happen, in fact the opposite took place. Once you find one track then you know what to look for after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWWASAS Posted February 2, 2016 BFF Patron Share Posted February 2, 2016 (edited) ^ ^^ ^^^ that's very interesting (and some of it, scary) stuff ya'll said Has there ever been a single paper published in a major scientific journal that even tried to explain the truth about Bigfoot, as we know it? Because, as we know it; Bigfoot are large, hairy, elusive, perhaps scarce, bi-pedal primates that have not yet been fully explained by Science, right? A good, peer-reviewed paper that basically says: 'Bigfoot: denying that these animals exist, doesn't cut it anymore' might accelerate the search for proof. There are a number of scientific papers written by Meldrum, Bindernegal, and Krantz but getting them published in major scientific journals is the hard part. They publish what they want. Here is just one of Meldrum's papers. http://www.isu.edu/~meldd/fxnlmorph.html It is not lack of papers, it is lack of interest in the topic by the scientific main stream which includes the Journals who consider BF fringe. Edited February 2, 2016 by SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigTreeWalker Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 Lake County Bigfooot, I'm trying to figure out who asked what in your post #71 above. But since it is my post in the middle of it I will try to answer what I think is yours and not ShadowBorn's question. I use trails and old inaccessible logging roads to get into the areas I spend my time. Trails are the best places to find good animal tracks. Though I have never found a bigfoot track in one. However, I have found tracks crossing the old roads never along them. The crossing tracks were headed up to the ridge which happens to be the Dark Divide that I have mentioned before. It runs between Mt St Helens and Mt Adams to the east. It's wild country. The boundary trail traverses it and it is surrounded by some of the last big stands of old growth forest in the GPNF. The area is surrounded by sighting reports but there are very few within the area itself. People just don't get very far off the main roads and trails. There are only two roads that cross this ridge. One on each end about thirty miles apart. I think it is a well used BF highway (no disrespect to Joe Beelart or his book). It is easy from here to drop into the Lewis River drainage to the south or the Cispus river to the north. Both of which have many sighting reports. Finding tracks in the forests in this area is very hard. You might find a hard to identify impression occasionally but your not going to see any trackways unless you can get in there when there's snow on the ground. Since the roads are gated in the winter getting in there very far is a rough proposition. And it is rugged country except on that ridge. Which is a very good reason why they use it. A suggestion here. If any of you have the money. A sting of cameras could be set across that ridge. Make them daytime cameras (I'm not sold on nighttime flash cams of any kind) and mount them high, 16 feet or so. You would probably get some pictures. About 35 Plotwatcher type cameras could cover a mile. The only way to get through without a picture would be at night or drop into a canyon and go around. For those that think IR cameras would work. Your limited by the flash range of about 60' and sensor range on most cams. So double or triple the number of needed cams if you choose not to use time lapse photography. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cryptic Megafauna Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Interesting post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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