Hey Researchers, Why Don't You Leave Them Squatch Alone!

[BigTreeWalker]

LCB,

Animals do learn from repeated behavior. Whether it's their own or other's behavior, they do pick up on it. What whooping and knocking does is teach animals to avoid researchers. We may get an answer from a knock, but that is probably all we'll get because it also alerts them to our presence in an area. But since most sightings are not from researchers but from people going about their usual business. It probably won't affect those. But other than a description, sightings don't really further scientific knowledge much.

I have said it before that the habituators have the best chance to gather usable knowledge about the species. However, that all hinges on the mindset of the habituators. If all they are willing to do is experience BF; again nothing scientific will come from it. I know of some that do set DNA, hair traps and/or fingerprint traps. Something could come from these methods. Remember though that Jane Goodall and Diane Fossie didn't do what they did until the species were known to exist.

[bipedalist]

 

 

 

 

 

To succinctly answer the question - they bothered me first.

Do you believe they sought you out or was it an accidental bothering?

 

 

First face to face was a bit of a meeting engagement - while backing away from one growling at me, I turned and discovered one was running at me, and when I spotted him, he veered slightly and ran past me.  The other times were on their part because I wanted no part of them.

 

It seems we were all living that Summer and Fall on the same mountain.  Our bad luck.

 

I suspect our fall may be their summer, if you are using a metaphor. (poetic)

Would you recommend getting in touch with them?

Or are they uninterestingly giant and hostile?

 

 

The bulk of commentary from many assume these are benign, shy, gentle giants who just want to be left alone, and are relatively harmless.  Maybe.

 

However, in any living population of any species, much like the typical distribution found in a Bell Curve, the bulk of the population, regardless of your factor being measured - has the bulk pattern in the center, and yet on each end of the Bell Curve, there are lesser tails that account for aberrations.

 

In human populations, there are aberrant behaviors that are so dissimilar to conventional behavior, it's hard to believe the aberrations are of the same human species.  We have our Jeffrey Dahlmers, John Wayne Gacy, Henry Lee Lucas.  There are hundreds of serial and spree killers identified from around the world, a significant number who are also cannibals.  Ukrainian, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, Polish, South American, Arabic, African, on and on.

 

So.  For me, knowing the always present dangers of human predators, for me to complicate matters and roam alone in remote areas where there is a fair possibility of meeting one of these critters - however rare - I'd say that if someone alone meets up with an aberrant critter - you may be lunch.

 

While I had one growling at me, and had my full attention, only by habit did I turn and discover one running at me from behind.  Maybe he was just trying to get to the other one growling at me to not press the matter - or - the voluminous distraction was by design while the other one closed in on me from behind.  I'll never know.

 

I have a problem believing in coincidence.  I have a problem trusting unknowns.

 

Just my contrary nature, but it's gotten me through some real close events.

 

I came to the same conclusion with bears and other large animals this summer.

I came into close proximity with several bear and a moose and where I had always been adventuresome

it seemed though I was able to stay in control of the situation other outcomes were very possible and I realized that 

I could not count on my luck as much anymore.

I have been very close to a large cryptid, though not BF but that was a totally peaceful event.

With the bears I just clapped my hands or shooed them, the moose was very startled so I made sure I turned tail and let him be.

Had many near death experiences myself, though some day it won't just be near and the deal is the real is.

BF seems to be mostly bluff charging and threatening. 

Seems capable of killing, I wonder if they don't is because then the threat from retaliation from humans is much greater.

We tend to wipe out large predators and will track down anything that kills a man and take it out, our modus operandi.

Also, I doubt they are a predator, as such but an omnivore, so no real kill instinct except when backed into a corner, like almost any creature. Almost no apelike creature except man hunts down and kills large animals, anyway. Stealing carrion or scavenging remains or small animals, fish, insects, etc. is more what I would expect the protein component of their diet to be.

 

 

Large animals maybe, but even Chimpanzee spear bush babies contrary to what everybody thought they were capable of in the beginning.  And, use tools to do it no-less (check out the efficient nut-cracker while you are at it):  http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/chimp_spear

 

 

I've mentioned before my answer to a related question, that being "why do sasquatch seem to live in those areas that are very near to human settlements, as opposed to retreating deeper into the plentiful wilderness?" - that answer being that the sasquatch population is much greater than most tend to believe, and the density of the sasquatch population within these areas is such that the carrying capacity has essentially been reached. Now it could be that all of the available resources have been claimed, meaning there is not enough to support any more sasquatch, but it could also mean that the more dominant animals have forced out the weaker, less-dominant animals. IF true this has an interesting implication- is the behavior of those animals most seen by us humans, those animals who live nearest to us, skewed in comparison to the overall sasquatch population? Think about it like this- if the weaker animals are the ones we see the most, could they be more "skittish" than those sasquatch living deeper in the forests?

Jiggy, that was well thought through. But it is only part of the answer. In a biological sense, the suburbs are actually becoming more plentiful than the wilderness areas. With all the available food for deer and other small animals, their populations are actually increasing. Some municipal areas are having ever increasing problems with deer. Management becomes a big problem since hunting can't be used as a means of population control. So this becomes a readily available food source for predators, along with people's pets. From coyotes all the way up to cougars and black bears. In the Washington and Oregon areas there are constant sightings of cougars and problems with bears and coyotes close to urban areas. They go where the food is. As these predators do, so would something like bigfoot that uses deer and small mammals for a food source.

 

 

Some suburban areas outside LA have mtn lion problems now, mtn lions that cross freeway no less. 

http://www.scpr.org/news/2015/09/03/54163/first-look-at-a-proposed-wildlife-bridge-released/

Edited February 7, 2016 by bipedalist

[Branco]

I like your approach.

With perhaps as few as 400 Bigfoot in the lower 48 a non-intrusive approach is best.

And the habitat is being decimated as well, the amount of logging in the last 20 years is runaway.

I'd estimate 50 percent of all forests have been cut over world wide.

Probably one of the most endangered large mammalian species on the planet, as well.

"Perhaps" being the key word, unless a "0" fell off in transit.   

[JKH]

^LOL, or two for sure...

Edited February 8, 2016 by JKH

[Guest Cryptic Megafauna]

 

I like your approach.

With perhaps as few as 400 Bigfoot in the lower 48 a non-intrusive approach is best.

And the habitat is being decimated as well, the amount of logging in the last 20 years is runaway.

I'd estimate 50 percent of all forests have been cut over world wide.

Probably one of the most endangered large mammalian species on the planet, as well.

"Perhaps" being the key word, unless a "0" fell off in transit.   

 

400 or 4000, vanishingly small. My estimate assumes CA, WA, OR. You can through in BC, Oregon. a few mountain ranges in NV and ID.

Warm temperate high elevation rain forest are where I'm at.

 

 

 

 

 

 

To succinctly answer the question - they bothered me first.

Do you believe they sought you out or was it an accidental bothering?

 

 

First face to face was a bit of a meeting engagement - while backing away from one growling at me, I turned and discovered one was running at me, and when I spotted him, he veered slightly and ran past me.  The other times were on their part because I wanted no part of them.

 

It seems we were all living that Summer and Fall on the same mountain.  Our bad luck.

 

I suspect our fall may be their summer, if you are using a metaphor. (poetic)

Would you recommend getting in touch with them?

Or are they uninterestingly giant and hostile?

 

 

The bulk of commentary from many assume these are benign, shy, gentle giants who just want to be left alone, and are relatively harmless.  Maybe.

 

However, in any living population of any species, much like the typical distribution found in a Bell Curve, the bulk of the population, regardless of your factor being measured - has the bulk pattern in the center, and yet on each end of the Bell Curve, there are lesser tails that account for aberrations.

 

In human populations, there are aberrant behaviors that are so dissimilar to conventional behavior, it's hard to believe the aberrations are of the same human species.  We have our Jeffrey Dahlmers, John Wayne Gacy, Henry Lee Lucas.  There are hundreds of serial and spree killers identified from around the world, a significant number who are also cannibals.  Ukrainian, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, Polish, South American, Arabic, African, on and on.

 

So.  For me, knowing the always present dangers of human predators, for me to complicate matters and roam alone in remote areas where there is a fair possibility of meeting one of these critters - however rare - I'd say that if someone alone meets up with an aberrant critter - you may be lunch.

 

While I had one growling at me, and had my full attention, only by habit did I turn and discover one running at me from behind.  Maybe he was just trying to get to the other one growling at me to not press the matter - or - the voluminous distraction was by design while the other one closed in on me from behind.  I'll never know.

 

I have a problem believing in coincidence.  I have a problem trusting unknowns.

 

Just my contrary nature, but it's gotten me through some real close events.

 

I came to the same conclusion with bears and other large animals this summer.

I came into close proximity with several bear and a moose and where I had always been adventuresome

it seemed though I was able to stay in control of the situation other outcomes were very possible and I realized that 

I could not count on my luck as much anymore.

I have been very close to a large cryptid, though not BF but that was a totally peaceful event.

With the bears I just clapped my hands or shooed them, the moose was very startled so I made sure I turned tail and let him be.

Had many near death experiences myself, though some day it won't just be near and the deal is the real is.

BF seems to be mostly bluff charging and threatening. 

Seems capable of killing, I wonder if they don't is because then the threat from retaliation from humans is much greater.

We tend to wipe out large predators and will track down anything that kills a man and take it out, our modus operandi.

Also, I doubt they are a predator, as such but an omnivore, so no real kill instinct except when backed into a corner, like almost any creature. Almost no apelike creature except man hunts down and kills large animals, anyway. Stealing carrion or scavenging remains or small animals, fish, insects, etc. is more what I would expect the protein component of their diet to be.

 

 

Large animals maybe, but even Chimpanzee spear bush babies contrary to what everybody thought they were capable of in the beginning.  And, use tools to do it no-less (check out the efficient nut-cracker while you are at it):  http://video.nationalgeographic.com/video/chimp_spear

 

 

I've mentioned before my answer to a related question, that being "why do sasquatch seem to live in those areas that are very near to human settlements, as opposed to retreating deeper into the plentiful wilderness?" - that answer being that the sasquatch population is much greater than most tend to believe, and the density of the sasquatch population within these areas is such that the carrying capacity has essentially been reached. Now it could be that all of the available resources have been claimed, meaning there is not enough to support any more sasquatch, but it could also mean that the more dominant animals have forced out the weaker, less-dominant animals. IF true this has an interesting implication- is the behavior of those animals most seen by us humans, those animals who live nearest to us, skewed in comparison to the overall sasquatch population? Think about it like this- if the weaker animals are the ones we see the most, could they be more "skittish" than those sasquatch living deeper in the forests?

Jiggy, that was well thought through. But it is only part of the answer. In a biological sense, the suburbs are actually becoming more plentiful than the wilderness areas. With all the available food for deer and other small animals, their populations are actually increasing. Some municipal areas are having ever increasing problems with deer. Management becomes a big problem since hunting can't be used as a means of population control. So this becomes a readily available food source for predators, along with people's pets. From coyotes all the way up to cougars and black bears. In the Washington and Oregon areas there are constant sightings of cougars and problems with bears and coyotes close to urban areas. They go where the food is. As these predators do, so would something like bigfoot that uses deer and small mammals for a food source.

 

 

Some suburban areas outside LA have mtn lion problems now, mtn lions that cross freeway no less. 

http://www.scpr.org/news/2015/09/03/54163/first-look-at-a-proposed-wildlife-bridge-released/

 

The barrier between Bigfoot and man is brain based although not necessarily intelligence based.

The developments of the Human brain between 200,000-70,000 years ago are the key.

The most telling aspect of Bigfoot is the lack of a social organization of more the a few individuals.

[ShadowBorn]

The barrier between Bigfoot and man is brain based although not necessarily intelligence based.

The developments of the Human brain between 200,000-70,000 years ago are the key.

The most telling aspect of Bigfoot is the lack of a social organization of more the a few individuals.

Would there not be intelligence on both sides between Man and bigfoot. I would believe, that Depending on how or at what view point that we are looking at them at. If we look at it through mans eyes then we see it as a intelligence of certain needs that we already have. Now if we look at their intelligence through their eyes (IMO) it would be all primitive and no where near to the needs that we require.

[FarArcher]

 

 

 

 

 

To succinctly answer the question - they bothered me first.

Do you believe they sought you out or was it an accidental bothering?

 

 

First face to face was a bit of a meeting engagement - while backing away from one growling at me, I turned and discovered one was running at me, and when I spotted him, he veered slightly and ran past me.  The other times were on their part because I wanted no part of them.

 

It seems we were all living that Summer and Fall on the same mountain.  Our bad luck.

 

I suspect our fall may be their summer, if you are using a metaphor. (poetic)

Would you recommend getting in touch with them?

Or are they uninterestingly giant and hostile?

 

 

The bulk of commentary from many assume these are benign, shy, gentle giants who just want to be left alone, and are relatively harmless.  Maybe.

 

However, in any living population of any species, much like the typical distribution found in a Bell Curve, the bulk of the population, regardless of your factor being measured - has the bulk pattern in the center, and yet on each end of the Bell Curve, there are lesser tails that account for aberrations.

 

In human populations, there are aberrant behaviors that are so dissimilar to conventional behavior, it's hard to believe the aberrations are of the same human species.  We have our Jeffrey Dahlmers, John Wayne Gacy, Henry Lee Lucas.  There are hundreds of serial and spree killers identified from around the world, a significant number who are also cannibals.  Ukrainian, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, Polish, South American, Arabic, African, on and on.

 

So.  For me, knowing the always present dangers of human predators, for me to complicate matters and roam alone in remote areas where there is a fair possibility of meeting one of these critters - however rare - I'd say that if someone alone meets up with an aberrant critter - you may be lunch.

 

While I had one growling at me, and had my full attention, only by habit did I turn and discover one running at me from behind.  Maybe he was just trying to get to the other one growling at me to not press the matter - or - the voluminous distraction was by design while the other one closed in on me from behind.  I'll never know.

 

I have a problem believing in coincidence.  I have a problem trusting unknowns.

 

Just my contrary nature, but it's gotten me through some real close events.

 

I came to the same conclusion with bears and other large animals this summer.

I came into close proximity with several bear and a moose and where I had always been adventuresome

it seemed though I was able to stay in control of the situation other outcomes were very possible and I realized that 

I could not count on my luck as much anymore.

I have been very close to a large cryptid, though not BF but that was a totally peaceful event.

With the bears I just clapped my hands or shooed them, the moose was very startled so I made sure I turned tail and let him be.

Had many near death experiences myself, though some day it won't just be near and the deal is the real is.

BF seems to be mostly bluff charging and threatening. 

Seems capable of killing, I wonder if they don't is because then the threat from retaliation from humans is much greater.

We tend to wipe out large predators and will track down anything that kills a man and take it out, our modus operandi.

Also, I doubt they are a predator, as such but an omnivore, so no real kill instinct except when backed into a corner, like almost any creature. Almost no apelike creature except man hunts down and kills large animals, anyway. Stealing carrion or scavenging remains or small animals, fish, insects, etc. is more what I would expect the protein component of their diet to be.

 

 

The only thing I may not agree with you on is the possibility that they may not be a predator.  

 

First, at least the one I had a good chance to see was massive.  He didn't get that way oh mountain flowers.  He needed tons of calories.  

 

Plus, I'm looking across a crease, and see a deer walking erratically.  Falling down, struggling to get up, time and again, and soon, it had fallen so many times on those rocks that his knees were bloody.  His neck was way out of line - something smacked it sideways really, really hard - and it had just happened.  He was desperate to get away from whatever - and it wasn't a cat, bear, or wolf - or they'd have quickly finished him off.  Something didn't want to be seen.

 

Dan put it down, about 100 yards from camp.  Next morning it was gone.  No blood other than from the shot, no drag marks, nothing.  Just gone.  Something had picked it up and walked off with it up or down the rocky ravine it had been laying in.  And in the surrounding dirt around the rocks, no tracks of any kind.  Whatever stayed on the rocks.

 

Considering how well they blend in behind trees and among rocks, I'd guess they strike from ambush, and likely hunt in groups - maybe some driving, some waiting.  But they're so fast - especially considering their bulk - that's what's scary.

[BigTreeWalker]

Hey Fararcher, if you find any bones from that deer they may have some large unidentifiable incisor marks in them. We're still working on identifying what we found... So far still unknown.

Cryptic Megafauna two of those were elk. So I would say they are effective predators.

[Lake County Bigfooot]

I've been away for a little while, but late night indigestion has brought me back. I guess what got me going was the simple question, if I know there are Sasquatch in an area, and I attempt to research them, will said sasquatches behavior change. I think the answer is that depends. If my behavior brings attention to a previously inconspicuous area, or if my behavior exhibits something threatening to them, like cameras or other technology they may be skittish of. I know that very few people ever enter my marsh, and if I go into it I am sure most of the local wildlife sits up and takes notice. That is a predicament. If I want to study the most elusive animal on the planet must not I be as elusive, or more elusive. So how do I study them without their knowledge. Is that even the remotest possibility? One method I think has some merit is remote viewing, either from long distances or altitudes. It requires the ability to view an area remotely through telescopic means, and we all know how limited that is. High powered binoculars and scopes, or even telescopes might be employed in areas with open vistas of suspected quarry, a spotting technique hunters have long used to sneak up on game. I have not heard many researchers remote viewing efforts, so I am open to hearing if anyone employs some version of that. There are reports of hunters doing that for other purposes and getting a surprising result, sometimes not a wanted result, but a garment changing moment.

Edited February 9, 2016 by Lake County Bigfooot

[FarArcher]

Hey Fararcher, if you find any bones from that deer they may have some large unidentifiable incisor marks in them. We're still working on identifying what we found... So far still unknown.

Cryptic Megafauna two of those were elk. So I would say they are effective predators.

 

 

I wasn't looking for Bigfoot.  After that one ran at and then past me at some 20-30 feet, I had no inclination for a repeat.  Then at night, for weeks, they'd come up, walk around both tents, stand outside forever, and other nights toss pebbles at the tents.

 

I never got the feeling they were just being neighborly, and while we had plenty of firearms in camp, we didn't have any firearms I'd feel comfortable betting my life on.

 

I didn't look for bones, although later five of us walked up together, and I noted lots of "structures" with the inside consisting of well packed earth.  One large boulder cluster - I'd look at it and my hair would stand up.  We stayed well away from there on purpose.

 

Look, I admire guys who look for evidence and all, but there are some things I don't seek, and certainly don't give chase to.  Call it instinct, gut feelings - whatever.  I learned long ago to trust those feelings and I'm still here while several who ignored them died mighty young.  When I "know" I'm being watched - I'm being watched.  When I "know" to remain still and quiet - it's critical to my good health to remain still and quiet.  When I "know" to stay away from a direction or as I approach a location, I stay away.

 

Critters in some areas may be all nice and shy, but when I experience a feeling of malevolence - I go to a strong defensive mode and change up whatever I'm doing.  To tell the truth, I hate surprises.

[BigTreeWalker]

Thanks for the feedback Fararcher. I think that is the right attitude to take for any animal or situation that could be hazardous to our health.

[ShadowBorn]

 

Hey Fararcher, if you find any bones from that deer they may have some large unidentifiable incisor marks in them. We're still working on identifying what we found... So far still unknown.

Cryptic Megafauna two of those were elk. So I would say they are effective predators.

 

 

I wasn't looking for Bigfoot.  After that one ran at and then past me at some 20-30 feet, I had no inclination for a repeat.  Then at night, for weeks, they'd come up, walk around both tents, stand outside forever, and other nights toss pebbles at the tents.

 

I never got the feeling they were just being neighborly, and while we had plenty of firearms in camp, we didn't have any firearms I'd feel comfortable betting my life on.

 

I didn't look for bones, although later five of us walked up together, and I noted lots of "structures" with the inside consisting of well packed earth.  One large boulder cluster - I'd look at it and my hair would stand up.  We stayed well away from there on purpose.

 

Look, I admire guys who look for evidence and all, but there are some things I don't seek, and certainly don't give chase to.  Call it instinct, gut feelings - whatever.  I learned long ago to trust those feelings and I'm still here while several who ignored them died mighty young.  When I "know" I'm being watched - I'm being watched.  When I "know" to remain still and quiet - it's critical to my good health to remain still and quiet.  When I "know" to stay away from a direction or as I approach a location, I stay away.

 

Critters in some areas may be all nice and shy, but when I experience a feeling of malevolence - I go to a strong defensive mode and change up whatever I'm doing.  To tell the truth, I hate surprises.

 

Fararcher were you able to get photos of these structures ? so that we can get a look at them and judge them for ourselves. I have always carried my iphone with me and it seems to be able to take good photos in a hurry. I have never felt in danger until at night when I could not see, but if I had a thermo I would feel better and a little bit safe at night and maybe during the day. But during the day time I could rely on my eye sight  where as at night I would be relying on my hearing and my nose as well as my other senses which would be those inner feelings that one has when in danger. When I am in their domain I always assume that I am always being watched and when I see an odd anomaly I walk to it to see if it will move away. If it is a bear or a deer or an animal that we are familiar it will move and run from the area. If it is them they will do some thing to draw attention from where my attention is drawn too. This is what I have learned and experienced.

 

I have notice that they are good at deception where they will draw your attention away from what they truly are looking for. Smart fella's

[Guest WesT]

It's like grabbing the tiger by the tail. Ok, I gotcha, now what? So yeah, proceed with caution if you've figured out where they presently hunt and bed down.

 

Your safest approach is to get lucky and investigate an area after they've moved on to another location. You aren't gonna get close to anything they've made as long as it's still in use. It's my theory that when people get to close to an ambush set up or bedding site, they are escorted out of the area pronto.

 

LCB, remote observation is a good idea. Look for a natural type of observation blind. I would advise against constructing one of your own, or modifying an existing one, as it may get recognized as such. Go high up in the tree's if you can. You can achieve the stealth needed, but it's going to take some serious thought and planning.

[NCBFr]

FA -

 

Thanks for the write-up.  I must admit I got screamed at once by a BF and all I did was stare back in slack jawed amazement (and fear) and never thought of looking the other way.  Next time I will be smarter.

As to the original post, I agree completely.  I have a strong suspicion the authorities know about them so real research is probably a waste of time.  

[Lake County Bigfooot]

I also keep hearing reports of gaunt skinny sasquatch, one just came out from Lake County Florida. This is a common thing given the number of reports. I know that they vary in mass, height and build, but these seem unusually skinny and even boney to the observer at times, like the one reported approaching two fly fisherman in daylight from Montana, featured on Big Sky Finding Bigfoot. It begs the question if the population is doing very well. That Florida squatch was seen just south of the massive Ocala National Forest area, if that is not enough to support a large number of Sasquatch then what are we seeing in terms of population and resources needed to support the numbers.