Hey Researchers, Why Don't You Leave Them Squatch Alone!

[Rockape]

<I'm new and been on only three expeditions all in the last year.  Each time we encountered the creatures>

 

By "encountered", do you mean you saw one?

[BigTreeWalker]

I like your approach.

With perhaps as few as 400 Bigfoot in the lower 48 a non-intrusive approach is best.

And the habitat is being decimated as well, the amount of logging in the last 20 years is runaway.

I'd estimate 50 percent of all forests have been cut over world wide.

Probably one of the most endangered large mammalian species on the planet, as well.

 

I'm new and been on only three expeditions all in the last year.  Each time we encountered the creatures.  Now,we had some intelligence going into these areas, but the odds of a newbie being so fortunate makes me think there are tens of thousands of these creatures in the lower 48 alone.

Welcome Chief O,

You said you had experiences on your outings. Just curious what those entailed. You are probably right about Cryptic Megafauna's population estimates. Unless they are already extinct, it would take a much larger number for a viable breeding population. If there were only 400, they would have to be very busy and widely traveled; thousands of miles widely traveled.

[ShadowBorn]

 

I'm new and been on only three expeditions all in the last year.  Each time we encountered the creatures.  Now,we had some intelligence going into these areas, but the odds of a newbie being so fortunate makes me think there are tens of thousands of these creatures in the lower 48 alone.

Chief O

What do you mean by " Now,we had some intelligence going into these areas " ? is this intelligence by the researchers who reseacrhed the area before the trip. Is this intelligence by the creatures themselves? In three trips this is alot to learn from people who have encountered them. For myself and epiditions is a trust issue for me do be on them.

 

I would also like to know why you think that there are ten of thousand of them through out the lower 48 ? I am with Cryptic Megafauna that there might not be that many but that they move long distances . I also think that many tracks might match in different parts of the lower 48 like a glove. If those tracks match in two different areas of the lower 48 then we would know more on where they travel. So that we can start to predict where and when they will be there and yes i know it is a theory.

 

On your expiditions have you encountered tracks ? Were they flagged when you found them? were castings taken? Were people jumpy ? Pushing the idea that every sound was Bigfoot? I know these questions are trivia , but in our bigfoot world how else are we to understand this creature.  Wittnesses hold certain key elements to understanding this creature behavior. This creature takes some one with understanding wild animal behavior that has the intelligence as our selves. It is the animal side that makes it scary for me even though I try to stay relax around them.

 

But being with a bunch of people in a group is not so bad and does give you some comfort. But this is great news that you were able to have encountered these creatures. Acceptance is not gained but earned so some times being a part of a club is not that great with accepting hands. But I can say It is better.

 

When people start to loose fear of telling their story of a creature Bigfoot is when we will learn more of it's behavior. So thank you Fararcher and Chief O, Look forward to hearing to your expiditions and if you could post pictures would be cool.

[Explorer]

Look, I admire guys who look for evidence and all, but there are some things I don't seek, and certainly don't give chase to.  Call it instinct, gut feelings - whatever.  I learned long ago to trust those feelings and I'm still here while several who ignored them died mighty young.  When I "know" I'm being watched - I'm being watched.  When I "know" to remain still and quiet - it's critical to my good health to remain still and quiet.  When I "know" to stay away from a direction or as I approach a location, I stay away.

 

Critters in some areas may be all nice and shy, but when I experience a feeling of malevolence - I go to a strong defensive mode and change up whatever I'm doing.  To tell the truth, I hate surprises.

 

 

FarArcher,

 

Thanks for sharing your experiences and outlook on path forward.

 

We still don't know what we are dealing with here with this creature.

 

Whether it is malevolent or not, alpha predator or not, we still don't have any evidence that it has ever killed a human.

 

Lots of rumors, innuendos, and the 411 books stirring the pot, but no evidence that a bigfoot has killed a human.

 

It certainly has the capability and strength to kill humans; but does it have the intelligence to recognize the difference between food and cousins.

 

I am not in the teddy bear, hug a BF camp; but neither am I on the camp that these creatures will kill you if you walk into their living area or are responsible for all the missing people in National Parks.

 

I have read about bluff charges, scaring people by throwing rocks/sticks and by growling/screaming/howling.  But, have not read a single report of somebody who got injured by a BF attack.

 

Maybe 100% of those who got hit by a BF went missing; but that seems like a convenient excuse for a conspiracy.

 

In this field, it is hard to draw any definitive conclusions on this mythical creature that should not exist.

[FarArcher]

 

Look, I admire guys who look for evidence and all, but there are some things I don't seek, and certainly don't give chase to.  Call it instinct, gut feelings - whatever.  I learned long ago to trust those feelings and I'm still here while several who ignored them died mighty young.  When I "know" I'm being watched - I'm being watched.  When I "know" to remain still and quiet - it's critical to my good health to remain still and quiet.  When I "know" to stay away from a direction or as I approach a location, I stay away.

 

Critters in some areas may be all nice and shy, but when I experience a feeling of malevolence - I go to a strong defensive mode and change up whatever I'm doing.  To tell the truth, I hate surprises.

 

 

FarArcher,

 

Thanks for sharing your experiences and outlook on path forward.

 

We still don't know what we are dealing with here with this creature.

 

Whether it is malevolent or not, alpha predator or not, we still don't have any evidence that it has ever killed a human.

 

Lots of rumors, innuendos, and the 411 books stirring the pot, but no evidence that a bigfoot has killed a human.

 

It certainly has the capability and strength to kill humans; but does it have the intelligence to recognize the difference between food and cousins.

 

I am not in the teddy bear, hug a BF camp; but neither am I on the camp that these creatures will kill you if you walk into their living area or are responsible for all the missing people in National Parks.

 

I have read about bluff charges, scaring people by throwing rocks/sticks and by growling/screaming/howling.  But, have not read a single report of somebody who got injured by a BF attack.

 

Maybe 100% of those who got hit by a BF went missing; but that seems like a convenient excuse for a conspiracy.

 

In this field, it is hard to draw any definitive conclusions on this mythical creature that should not exist.

 

 

Explorer, I have a bit different perspective, and let me explain.

 

I was a triple volunteer in the military, and knew for certain I was going into combat.  I had the benefit of my instructors, who'd already been through multiple tours, but for two years, I asked almost every CIB holder, for three quick "Always do's" and three quick "Never do's."  Hundreds.  And hundreds.  I heard a lot of things repeated, but I also got a lot of things that were uncommon.  These replies I received were anecdotal.  Every one of them.  Yet the mountain of replies held truth.

 

We're all familiar with the Trojan War.  Told by Homer in the Illiad, and further written of in fragments by other writers, and written of by Roman poets Virgil and Ovid.  Fantastic characters, fantastic stories, fantastic struggles, and it is all relegated to fantasy, legends, traditions, sagas, tales, and mythology.

 

One of the more central mythical characters was Achilles.

 

Well, an amateur actually found Troy.  The real Troy.  And it had been burned, built over multiple times, but the real Troy was discovered.  It wasn't myth.

 

Then, when Alexander crossed the Hellespont, we learn from Plutarch that he made a beeline for Troy, and made sacrifices to Minerva to honor those who died there, but especially the grave of Achilles, whose grave he anointed.

 

Alexander had no trouble finding ruined Troy, nor the grave of the mythical Achilles.  I think this is another example of narratives relegated to mythology, and yet when we look a bit closer, there's hard evidence to indicate that what was understood to be myth and anecdotes, in fact held truth.

 

'Bout this Bigfoot fellow.  We find volumes of 'anecdotal' evidence, separated by decades, centuries, and millennia - told by separate peoples, cultures, nations, tribes, clans, and individuals, on different continents, regions, and terrains, called by many names - all reduced to the lowly title of anecdotal evidence.

 

Many of these anecdotal narratives, by many cultures, over the millennia, separated by continents - all tell of a very dangerous creature, a creature many have actually warred against, ones whose names reflect them to be terrible cannibals, child stealers, child eaters, and woman stealers.

 

So I'm supposed to ignore common sense, the preponderance of narratives over the millennia, and not draw any conclusions?  Not assume these are potentially very dangerous?  Not assume they are predators?  Not assume they are predators of opportunity?  Not assume they can even resort to cannibalism if the right, single opportunity arises simultaneously with a momentary need?

 

I had a tiger that stalked a handful of us for three days and three nights.  I killed it on the third night as it closed in - presumably to take one of us.  On examination the following morning, I discovered it was an older tiger.  Probably couldn't hunt very well.  Probably discovered that man was an easy prey, and was bent on taking another.

 

Maybe some older, maybe isolated, maybe outcast BF's on occasion when need and opportunity meet - will not hesitate to grab a lone person, or child - and meet an immediate need.  Unfortunately, those loners who may have been taken - can't speak - can't provide direct evidence.

 

Anyone wants to subscribe to the commonly accepted concept that these are passive, shy, generally non-confrontational - I say knock yourself out.

 

Not me.  When hundreds of narratives from disconnected peoples say the same thing - I'm taking THEIR word for it. 

Edited February 12, 2016 by FarArcher

[Explorer]

FarArcher,

 

Thanks much for your cogent reply and rationale.

I understand where you are coming from.

 

Honestly, I have no idea what BF is or if it is dangerous or not.  But, like you state, caution is the best advise.

 

I just hate the idea of stopping going camping and backpacking solo because of fear of a potential/theoretical rogue BF.

 

Last time I heard those loud footfalls around my tent (granted I never confirmed their source and don't know for sure they were from a BF), I was a bit scared and did not enjoy solo camping. 

I don't carry guns, only bear spray.

Ignorance is bliss.  Before I got involved in studying this subject, only real wildlife concerned me (bears, cougars, etc.).  And that did not stop me from solo camping and back packing.

 

Maybe I was lucky and a fool.

[Lake County Bigfooot]

At least 1000s in my opinion, but maybe less than we think. I think they use large areas and sightings you find from a large area might be the same creatures moving from spot to spot, although the possibility of greater numbers seems remote. I am not speaking about migration, but a large range in order to support themselves and to remain hidden. It is hard to shoot a moving target so to speak. Nomadic wanderings of hunter, gatherers of sorts, I think they know where to be when a food source is abundant, and they have a circuit they follow, with occasional blurbs into other areas to explore resources. I cannot fathom larger numbers and account for being undetected, but several thousand might be enough to maintain a breeding population and remain discreet.

Edited February 12, 2016 by Lake County Bigfooot

[Guest]

Thanks to all who inquired about my post above.  Sorry about my delay, as I'm still on newbie probation.  My first encounter was on Night 3 of a BFRO expedition.  There were growls, thumps, false charges, strange bird calls and and escort in and out of the area.  We met up with another group  on an opposite trail where an actual sighting occured, but not by me.  It was a little one, with a couple of little trail arches.  There was plenty of fecal matter, too.  The leader told us we were deep in their Sh*t -- no  pun intended.  Being new, I'm tempted to say a word that rhymes with "korb".  Will that get me kicked off the forum? But I won't guy there.  It was quite a night.

 

The next experience was just my wife and I.  We stayed at home base, but not the same place as the first experience.  Within 5 miles.  Keep in mind it was night time.  First a single bird, with a strange chirp, is heard from a distance.  Then it gets closer, then there are more birds, then we are surrounded at our campsite.  We both felt like we were being watched but didn't discuss it till later.  My wife was in tears and wanted to leave.  I thought she was thinking of her mother who died not long ago.  I agreed, but first I walked to the edge of our campsite, near the woods and heard a growl.  I agreed to go.

 

Third time was in Iowa.  As we entered the trail I and another guy (the same guy who saw the little squatch in #1 above) both hear a growl just like the one in #2.  I purposely kept quiet until he said something because I didn't want to influence anyone.  Other people did hear stuff in the night woods.  Really inconclusive there, but that **** Korb word kept coming up.  These were smaller and in the distance but there were lots of them just bopping around. (Again, Am I allowed to discuss this on this forum?)

 

One more thing.  The next day in Iowa we had a knock returned.  That was pretty cool, too.

 

 

I'm new and been on only three expeditions all in the last year.  Each time we encountered the creatures.  Now,we had some intelligence going into these areas, but the odds of a newbie being so fortunate makes me think there are tens of thousands of these creatures in the lower 48 alone.

[FarArcher]

Thanks to all who inquired about my post above.  Sorry about my delay, as I'm still on newbie probation.  My first encounter was on Night 3 of a BFRO expedition.  There were growls, thumps, false charges, strange bird calls and and escort in and out of the area.  We met up with another group  on an opposite trail where an actual sighting occured, but not by me.  It was a little one, with a couple of little trail arches.  There was plenty of fecal matter, too.  The leader told us we were deep in their Sh*t -- no  pun intended.  Being new, I'm tempted to say a word that rhymes with "korb".  Will that get me kicked off the forum? But I won't guy there.  It was quite a night.

 

The next experience was just my wife and I.  We stayed at home base, but not the same place as the first experience.  Within 5 miles.  Keep in mind it was night time.  First a single bird, with a strange chirp, is heard from a distance.  Then it gets closer, then there are more birds, then we are surrounded at our campsite.  We both felt like we were being watched but didn't discuss it till later.  My wife was in tears and wanted to leave.  I thought she was thinking of her mother who died not long ago.  I agreed, but first I walked to the edge of our campsite, near the woods and heard a growl.  I agreed to go.

 

Third time was in Iowa.  As we entered the trail I and another guy (the same guy who saw the little squatch in #1 above) both hear a growl just like the one in #2.  I purposely kept quiet until he said something because I didn't want to influence anyone.  Other people did hear stuff in the night woods.  Really inconclusive there, but that **** Korb word kept coming up.  These were smaller and in the distance but there were lots of them just bopping around. (Again, Am I allowed to discuss this on this forum?)

 

One more thing.  The next day in Iowa we had a knock returned.  That was pretty cool, too.

 

 

I'm new and been on only three expeditions all in the last year.  Each time we encountered the creatures.  Now,we had some intelligence going into these areas, but the odds of a newbie being so fortunate makes me think there are tens of thousands of these creatures in the lower 48 alone.

 

I would agree that there must be a trainload of these things.  

 

And I find it interesting that two of your experiences - would indicate multiple critters.  Which would be indicative of a clan/family group.

 

Yeah, that probation period is a bummer while you're in it, but soon enough, you'll find yourself completely off the chain.

[dlaw]

My guess, and that's all it is, is that there are 12-15,000 in the lower 48.  Enough for a viable breeding population, but still relatively rare.  I live in middle TN, and have been in the woods a lot over my lifetime, and I can count on my two hands the number of rattlesnakes I have seen in the woods(I am not counting those I have seen on the roads-which are a whole lot more.) I have talked to many woodsmen who have never actually seen one rattlesnake in the woods.   And there are most likely more rattlesnakes around than BF's although the BF's  are much better at avoiding being seen.

[Rockape]

I'm new and been on only three expeditions all in the last year.

 

Thanks for the reply. May I ask, did you pay someone to go on these expeditions? Or maybe pay for access to the land? Make a donation?

[dlaw]

Fararcher, thank you for your service to our country. 

[FarArcher]

Fararcher, thank you for your service to our country. 

 

I just took my turn like a whole lot of other guys.  But I do appreciate the thought.

 

Give your gratitude to those serving - they're the ones feeling it, feeling the burn, doing more with less, and at times without.  Young men need that kind of encouragement.

 

Ever get a chance to pick up a soldier's meal tab - that's something that stays with the soldier forever.  I mean, forever.