Hybrid Hypothesis Dead, Done, Stick A Fork In It....

[Yuchi1]

^^^ The second to last sentence is why I'm on his ignore list even though he makes a habit of running over to my profile page.  He recently accused me of slandering people including members of this forum yet when I pressed him for evidence thereof, he instituted the ignore option, which he has done before and then recanted. IMO, he and his positions are irrelevant based upon the preceeding statement in that if you accuse someone of something then run away when called out.....

 

He apparently takes it personal when his position/organization is scrutinized/criticized and then makes allegations sans any substance, IMO, very juvenile behavior and often a clear signal one's position/organization may be predicated upon a somewhat unstable premise.

[Incorrigible1]

I can certainly appreciate the reasons Norse applied the ignore status.

[ShadowBorn]

Maybe it is a matter of validation, that Yuchi wants and we all know that we all want it. The thing is how? how does one go about getting the job done, when it can effect each of us in a different way.

 

I keep going back to those who have shot these creatures and what it was that made them hide them. Thats even if they did hide the bodies or even burued them.Why did they not bring them back to town like a trophy if they were an animal and not part human. See, thats strange to me in those old reports. They do give you the creeps though. I just do not know what to call them as far as either humans or animals since they act like both and that is crazy. I cannot call them a Monster per Definition: mon·ster
ˈmänstər/
noun
noun: monster; plural noun: monsters

    1.
    an imaginary creature that is typically large, ugly, and frightening.

 

This is not imaginary creature, I just do not have a definition that fits them and if anyone does then can you please post it. This way it is at least on some type of record. But we all know the truth that one does need to be brought in, it just does not need to be publicized. Just not me.

 

I agree with you MIB you make some great points, self defense is key and should be used first.

[Yuchi1]

I can certainly appreciate the reasons Norse applied the ignore status.

 

As in making allegations he can't/won't substantiate?

[Yuchi1]

 

MIB,

 

I knew you had encounters (per the profile) and was in no way trying to posture as an expert as IMO, there are none in this endeavor.

 

What I was saying is all the prognosticators who are sans such an experience are speaking from a position of ignorance as exemplified by many of their theories being basically FOS yet they continue to crow about what this is and what that means, et. al..

 

A vivid example of such is the Grendel Project contention these beings are "monsters" and to be hunted down and killed as such when IMO, those people appear to not know their collective ***** from a hole in the ground regarding such.

 

As they have two ears and one mouth, perhaps they should listen twice and talk once?

 

Ok, gotcha ... or at least closer.     Thanks for clarifying.

 

Position-wise, I'm no-kill other than self-defense.   Norseman is a pretty decent guy.   He might be misguided .. or not.  He's heard all the no-kill side has to say.   I suspect he's given it due consideration, at least as he views that.   I'd rather leave him in peace and let him figure out what he's going to do if/when he sees one through the scope.  I think things work better if we don't force him into a position of having something to prove, something to "show us", by incessant nagging.   Maybe he's bigger than that.  I'm probably not.  If some self-righteous d-bag nagged at me long enough, I'd probably get steamed enough to take whatever action "shows them" rather than what is simply right or wrong.    If I have that level of human weakness, others likely do to.    So ... don't back them into a corner.   Don't let your need to BE right overwhelm your desire to see right done.

 

Just my advice, though.    Just as he's gotta do what he's gotta do, you've gotta do what you've gotta do. 

 

Peace, eh?

 

MIB

 

Plussed.

 

MIB,

 

Appreciate your insights and respect your positions.

[SWWASAS]

The skeptics all sit and watch this proponent angst with glee.    I hate to see this discord but at least it shows we are not monolithic in our beliefs.     

[southernyahoo]

Maybe it is a matter of validation, that Yuchi wants and we all know that we all want it. The thing is how? how does one go about getting the job done, when it can effect each of us in a different way.

 

I keep going back to those who have shot these creatures and what it was that made them hide them. Thats even if they did hide the bodies or even burued them.Why did they not bring them back to town like a trophy if they were an animal and not part human. See, thats strange to me in those old reports. They do give you the creeps though. I just do not know what to call them as far as either humans or animals since they act like both and that is crazy. I cannot call them a Monster per Definition: mon·ster

ˈmänstər/

noun

noun: monster; plural noun: monsters

    1.

    an imaginary creature that is typically large, ugly, and frightening.

 

This is not imaginary creature, I just do not have a definition that fits them and if anyone does then can you please post it. This way it is at least on some type of record. But we all know the truth that one does need to be brought in, it just does not need to be publicized. Just not me.

 

I agree with you MIB you make some great points, self defense is key and should be used first.

 

I chose this one a long time ago.

 

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=yahoo

 

a brute in human form

 

This wasn't just because the description existed in literature, but because I heard the call that supposedly gave it's name. 

[hiflier]

....So was there an ice age that transformed this world which made Humans to travel to warmer climates? Then was there a melting of this ice which cause flooding, which also cause rain do to the heat from some celestial event that Hiflier has been hinting too?....

Just a bit of clarification if I may. The cosmic bombardment event I was describing was proposed as a result of finding elevated levels of a signature isotope called Beryllium 10 in ice corings. These events are not heat generating events where ice caps would melt. It would be primarily an atmospheric event where large scale ozone depletion would allow a greater influx of ultraviolet radiation.

That higher, long duration of UV radiation would alter the DNA of plants and animals at molecular/cellular lever creating mutations. Whether or not such an event over time would do things like fuse chromosome 2 in Humans to create 23 pairs instead of 24 is unknown to me. But at least you know how I think when I read such things. I always go back and apply the new info to the whole of what I already know and have learned.

For instance, I've known about the cosmic ray bombardments for several years now. I've only learned about the 23 vs. 24 chromosomes recently in Norseman's thread. I was suggesting putting the possibility of mutation as being a result of the long-term bombardment issue. The radiation from Chernobyl and Fukushima for example were not heat events outside the reactors but the non-heat radiation exposure was.

[ShadowBorn]

Southernyahoo

Yahoo would be a proper term to use on these guys, since what they are is nothing more then a brute. Which makes them neither man nor animal but a brute which uses force to get it's way. This does make a big difference on how we should look at them , rather then looking at them as a Human figure. Does this make it  any easier on how we should think about them , well I am not sure. But it does on my self as I am Human. 

 

Hiflier

I did do more research on what you have said and yes you are right about it not being a heat source. But mostly being that of cosmic rays passing through. But the cause of this heat that created for all this melt down as I understand is the CO2 gasses. What I do not understand is how these CO2 gasses were created on earth, was it created by a green house effect. Could there have been a cosmic event that cause these gasses to be created and expand and has it been experimented in a lab where this theory was recreated? 

 

See this is how I take this research , in the same way I question our world. Is it possible that what you are saying that what took place back then could have mutated the genes within the DNA. By being bombarded by cosmic rays, this is some thing that I really do not know. But I sure as heck would love to find out if we can get our hands on of these creatures. If they are ancient then they should hold the key with in their DNA to what took place in our past, and for some reason beyond our own understanding this is not happening. Why? Why the evasiveness? why hide if they are not that important? why use tactics of defense?

 

Those eye shines I told you I have not given up on posting those for you, so just be patient and I will post it when I can figure a way to do so. I have not forgotten, You will be impressed with this researcher videoing of this. I give him a lot of credit for the time and effort on what he has done. I still cannot get him to physically camp out, when they are out there even if we are armed. I keep saying to myself that I must not have fear and keep moving forward, no matter what the consequences are. But what are mistakes meant for, so that we can learn from and not do the same mistake which is considered insane.  

[Yuchi1]

^^^ SB,

 

Volcanic eruptions release tremendous amounts of carbon dioxide (along with other gasses as well) into the atmosphere each year. In times past, volcanic activity may have been much greater than current levels.

[hiflier]

^^ This.

I do not wish to derail this thread any further. As the Earth warms because of it's cyclical precession (the path of the North Pole tracing a 26,000 year long circle relative to the Sun) CO2 create the greenhouse effect but there's more to it. The oceans also stop absorbing CO2 as they also warm and so add to the feedback cycle as more CO2 is held in the atmosphere. If things get warm enough then large releases of methane from the seafloor as well as the melting permafrost add more greenhouse gasses. Methane is worse than CO2 so things really spiral down relatively fast once the whole is set into motion.

All in all it's a very fascinating subject to study up on. So, back on topic, sure I have my ideas on what might be a factor in mutating 24 pairs of chromosomes down to 23 pairs with the fused chromosome 2. But I think it takes stepping back and looking at some outside forcing in order to perhaps rule out other larger overall factors before drawing any conclusions. This is where we need the science.

[norseman]

Here is the original article.

http://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(16)30033-7

[ShadowBorn]

It is tempting to speculate that some of these mutations might have led to genetic incompatibilities between modern humans and Neandertals and to the consequent loss of Neandertal Y chromosomes in modern human populations. Indeed, reduced fertility or viability of hybrid offspring with Neandertal Y chromosomes is fully consistent with Haldane’s rule, which states that “when in the [first generation] offspring of two different animal races one sex is absent, rare, or sterile, that sex is the [heterogametic] sex.â€33

 This does not sound like the Y chromosome is lost if it is consistent with Haldane's rule which states: “when in the [first generation] offspring of two different animal races one sex is absent, rare, or sterile, that sex is the [heterogametic] sex.â€33 . When the definition of heterogametic means this:

 

heterogametic

(ˌhɛtərəʊɡəˈmɛtɪk)

adj

(Genetics) denoting the sex that possesses dissimilar sex chromosomes. In humans and many other mammals it is the male sex, possessing one X-chromosome and one Y-chromosome

 

Is this right then if a male Neanderthals and a human female join, then the out come will be a male no matter how you turn this , the out come is the same. So then the Y chromosome is then being carried over with in the human population, but not in all. But because there are no more Neanderthal males alive now this hybridization and their Y chromosome being passed is now finished. This makes sense some how on how they may have vanished from the face of the earth. No females and mostly males , how could they have populated with just the Human population and survived. Like I have said , I am learning and am trying to understand this stuff.

[norseman]

No.

If the male hybrid fetus-child is "absent, rare or sterile", then chances are the Neanderthal Y chromosome is NOT going to be passed on in the Homo Sapien population.

[southernyahoo]

Right, but this doesn't account for all possibilities concerning the hybrid hypothesis. Either one that supposes a Neanderthal & modern human hybrid population other than us, or a human & some other hominin hybrid population exists. The hybrid females would be half Neanderthal, and we don't know if they would reject a male fetus from a second cross with male Neanderthal. Some of the hybrids could have persisted and reproduced among Neanderthal populations. Those hybrids would have modern human mitochondria.