Hybrid Hypothesis Dead, Done, Stick A Fork In It....

[Guest Cryptic Megafauna]

 

 

 

I've been trying to explain that vice versa didn't have to happen in order for Neanderthal to have human DNA. They "Neanderthal" would only need a female hybrid from a human mother to breed with. Of coarse they would need numerous such females to be taken over with human mitochondrial DNA.

 

All that is required is that a female with a Y chromosome persisted and has had not direct descendents on the female side analysed by genetic sequencing. I would suggest looking in the Basque region of Spain or Basque descendants that farmed sheep out west, Russia might be another possibility for a similar or earlier lineage (pre Neanderthal) even the Red Deer Cave region in China. 

[SWWASAS]

 

 

....So was there an ice age that transformed this world which made Humans to travel to warmer climates? Then was there a melting of this ice which cause flooding, which also cause rain do to the heat from some celestial event that Hiflier has been hinting too?....

Just a bit of clarification if I may. The cosmic bombardment event I was describing was proposed as a result of finding elevated levels of a signature isotope called Beryllium 10 in ice corings. These events are not heat generating events where ice caps would melt. It would be primarily an atmospheric event where large scale ozone depletion would allow a greater influx of ultraviolet radiation.

That higher, long duration of UV radiation would alter the DNA of plants and animals at molecular/cellular lever creating mutations. Whether or not such an event over time would do things like fuse chromosome 2 in Humans to create 23 pairs instead of 24 is unknown to me. But at least you know how I think when I read such things. I always go back and apply the new info to the whole of what I already know and have learned.

For instance, I've known about the cosmic ray bombardments for several years now. I've only learned about the 23 vs. 24 chromosomes recently in Norseman's thread. I was suggesting putting the possibility of mutation as being a result of the long-term bombardment issue. The radiation from Chernobyl and Fukushima for example were not heat events outside the reactors but the non-heat radiation exposure was.

 

 

Just in case anyone thinks I haven't done my homework over the years on this stuff:

 

http://thewatchers.adorraeli.com/2012/10/19/earths-geomagnetic-reversal-happened-41000-years-ago-new-study-claims/

 

There was no less than four major upheavals around 40,000 years ago. The one in the link is what I was getting at WRT DNA changing scenarios. Neanderthal may have been more susceptible to such changes and within a few thousand years after these events they were gone. Cro-Magnon lived on but studying the approximately 10,000 year overlap of the two- Cro-Magnon and Neanderthal is very interesting. More and more scientists are moving toward climate change being closely linked to the magnetic pole wandering and magnetic pole reversals as a factor in not only climate change but other geophysical processes as well- earthquake/volcanic activity for instance.

 

It was probably a good thing for the ancestors of mankind that 40,000 years ago was smack in the middle of the last ice age..     The weather was terrible, mankind to survive the weather was holed up in caves and shelters.     Caves and snow covered shelters would provide protection against solar radiation reaching the earth because the earths magnetic field was weak or gone for a period of time during the magnetic field flip.    I think the 250 years may be a very rough estimate if it is based on sediments.    Some think the polar magnetic flip happened in as few as a couple of decades.     The demise of Mars happened when the core cooled, it lost its magnetic field protection,   and the solar wind started stripping away the atmosphere and water.      Land animal life would not exist on earth for long if we lost our protective magnetic field and given enough time,  we would lose our atmosphere and oceans just like mars did.   

[bipedalist]

Well in a newly released interview, Adrian Erickson states a Denmark lab verified Ketchum's result.

 

Anybody know of this finding and of the specifics?

 

http://www.dietiefe.com/?p=1148

[southernyahoo]

On 5/10/2016 at 7:28 PM, Cryptic Megafauna said:

All that is required is that a female with a Y chromosome persisted and has had not direct descendents on the female side analysed by genetic sequencing. I would suggest looking in the Basque region of Spain or Basque descendants that farmed sheep out west, Russia might be another possibility for a similar or earlier lineage (pre Neanderthal) even the Red Deer Cave region in China. 

 

Females don't typically carry a Y chromosome. Only males pass it on to male children. Females have two copies of X normally.

[Guest Cryptic Megafauna]

southernyahoo

 

Must be my senility.

So an X? An X that had a unique persistence in the mathematical sense?

So perhaps a male.

Know I read up on it somewhere.

Seeing a woman that fitted the profile made me look for the logic.

 

It was the Y as I remember so the persistence may have been a male transmission.

I think the article said via a female line, though, not sure what the logical model would look like with that

Or perhaps a hybrid might carry an extra Y?

 

The other theory would be that lineages vs groups would somehow be the logic.

 

Groups persisting as families in isolated settings and marginal regions and passing undetected.

 

That might imply an ethnicity or a peoples which is probably not happening (or in only one or two remote areas).

 

What I encountered was a person, persons, or lineages that lived in marginal area (settler west) may have come from a Basque region (another very old marginal area) and migrated to the Americas (before or after settlers) and commingled with Native groups. This mechanism may have prevented the lineage from being reabsorbed be contact with the prevailing genetic current flows and networks. 

 

Don't know if she was from out west or of Basque descent but it seemed to be a reasonable speculation as when had married into what looked like a western Native group. (she was non native and of no known stock, let me assure you and was even aware that she was likely Neanderthal since she was highly intelligent although also oddly simple, innocent, and open personality)

 

With cars and modern human movements this may be the last person in a line that the math and the end of and age is closing the door on. Although science think the door closed many tens of thousands of years before.

 

They also believe that in regards to Australopiths, though, or did...

 

S

Edited November 7, 2016 by Cryptic Megafauna

[Guest Cryptic Megafauna]

Here is a link for the above Y chromosome Neanderthal hybrid discussion for further edification.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2016/0407/Researchers-find-no-trace-of-Neanderthal-Y-chromosomes-in-modern-humans

 

Edited November 8, 2016 by Cryptic Megafauna

[Guest WesT]

CM, I remember when you first described her earlier in the year. About the same time, I was working at a local event that drew a lot people. And sure enough, it didn't take long until I saw her too. Yeah this girl had to know she was from a different stock. Heck, I tease my best friend and tell him he's a hybrid. He's has a slanted forehead, no neck, 6'7", 325lbs. I tell him that I think he has a cousin that's got lost in the woods and people are looking for him. lol

 

[JDL]

Interesting read, CM.  I wonder if the Y deselection process might actually have been social, or mate selection in nature.  Neanderthals were physically more powerful, but technologically inferior.  As they lost the species competition, it may have been that the remaining hybrid males were shunned, isolated, and exiled; whereas a submissive hybrid female may have been retained in the tribe.

[Guest Cryptic Megafauna]

2 hours ago, JDL said:

Interesting read, CM.  I wonder if the Y deselection process might actually have been social, or mate selection in nature.  Neanderthals were physically more powerful, but technologically inferior.  As they lost the species competition, it may have been that the remaining hybrid males were shunned, isolated, and exiled; whereas a submissive hybrid female may have been retained in the tribe.

I think that is a valid point.

 

It seems they were perhaps more spiritual, artistic, shamanistic, but lacked social, perhaps?

Making them likely more deeply intelligent but more wedded to older ways more suited to the ice ages.

They would have seemed more autistic, dreamers, and schizophrenic , all which are distinct disadvantages in more complex modern societies.

 

The reason any persistence into more modern times would require living in the hinterlands near older human groups such as aboriginals of the Americas and Europe.

 

The reason is they would be somewhat more intelligible to each other and less threatening and would have been were interbreeding would have occured and the genetics persisted.

 

As a fugitive population any survival would use strategies or all fugitive and hybrid animals, remove to the margins and remain hidden, even in plain sight (the last place you would look or the last environment the threatening species would enter willingly).

 

As likely as dying off (or being genocided off) or having a few successful unions a genetic outlier it seems to me that they were simply reabsorbed genetically, the few percent difference where the genes that had evolved differently since the desperation from a common ancestor.

Since less time had passed and they were still able to interbreed though with mixed results they did not have the same problem that an earlier form has that the offspring to not survive long enough to reproduce when mated with a Sapiens Sapiens.

 

Edited November 9, 2016 by Cryptic Megafauna

[southernyahoo]

As I understand it, science knows we crossed with Neanderthals by their contributions to our nuclear DNA where the parents genes mix and recombine. Yet they cannot find an intact copy of Neanderthal Y chromosome or an intact copy of X chromosome. The X chromosome undergoes recombination when passed on from the mother so it would have very fragmented genetic markers from deep ancestry. The Y shouldn't have any recombination, but it could be weeded out of a population through negative selection. The Y chromosome from a sasquatch male would be most interesting as would the mitochondrial DNA, which also doesn't recombine, but is passed on from the mother only. This is why the hybrid theory stays on the table, because we can't seem to get a unique Y chromosome or mitochrondria that is obviously from a great ape.

 

This link helps me keep it straight. 

 

 http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/basics/molgen/

[Guest Cryptic Megafauna]

2 hours ago, southernyahoo said:

As I understand it, science knows we crossed with Neanderthals by their contributions to our nuclear DNA where the parents genes mix and recombine. Yet they cannot find an intact copy of Neanderthal Y chromosome or an intact copy of X chromosome. The X chromosome undergoes recombination when passed on from the mother so it would have very fragmented genetic markers from deep ancestry. The Y shouldn't have any recombination, but it could be weeded out of a population through negative selection. The Y chromosome from a sasquatch male would be most interesting as would the mitochondrial DNA, which also doesn't recombine, but is passed on from the mother only. This is why the hybrid theory stays on the table, because we can't seem to get a unique Y chromosome or mitochrondria that is obviously from a great ape.

 

This link helps me keep it straight. 

 

 http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/basics/molgen/

Since I have told the tale several times, I believe I've seen an individual with the "Y" and in this case a female so we need a hybrid theory.

 

Perhaps the maths for a Y that is transmuted by an X. The components of the Y passed down through a female lineage but in the X chromosomes. So more chromosomes than needed for the Y maths but able to carry the genome forward through time with single fugitive lineage. Possibly a female lineage with a few fugitive genes re-added from the general population that allows periodic re-expression every generation or so. The population they are added from is also somewhat isolated and unstudied an a repository of gene expression that may be regressive and have not been re absorbed by general contact with modern Euro American or African populations. Another words, older peoples and ethnic groups that remain in the hinterlands out West, in the Basques regions, etc.

Many Basques did migrate out west and Basques are about the oldest peoples in Europe.

 

This was not the only female I am aware of, another reported anecdote form a very good book on north american anthropology had a degree researcher passing through the American west and saw a young woman as he passed by that we was sure was a relic Neanderthal lineage. Probably kicked himself that he didn't stop.

 

 

Edited November 20, 2016 by Cryptic Megafauna

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

The idea of a hybrid might seem like the only possibility once you know that they possess modern human mtDNA, but there's one more possibillity and I didn't even consider it until I came across reports suggesting they're being released and monitored through technology. These reports made me gain interest in examining past biological evidence more closely and it turns out the morphology of their hair matches that of humans' as well and it's not simply just the mtDNA. It's as if there's no difference between modern people and Sasquatch on a cellular level, yet there are obvious physiological differences and even slight mental differences that can't be the result of evolution or hybridization when you factor in everything.

Edited November 20, 2016 by OntarioSquatch

[southernyahoo]

On ‎11‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 11:12 PM, Cryptic Megafauna said:

Since I have told the tale several times, I believe I've seen an individual with the "Y" and in this case a female so we need a hybrid theory.

 

Perhaps the maths for a Y that is transmuted by an X. The components of the Y passed down through a female lineage but in the X chromosomes. So more chromosomes than needed for the Y maths but able to carry the genome forward through time with single fugitive lineage. Possibly a female lineage with a few fugitive genes re-added from the general population that allows periodic re-expression every generation or so. The population they are added from is also somewhat isolated and unstudied an a repository of gene expression that may be regressive and have not been re absorbed by general contact with modern Euro American or African populations. Another words, older peoples and ethnic groups that remain in the hinterlands out West, in the Basques regions, etc.

Many Basques did migrate out west and Basques are about the oldest peoples in Europe.

 

This was not the only female I am aware of, another reported anecdote form a very good book on north american anthropology had a degree researcher passing through the American west and saw a young woman as he passed by that we was sure was a relic Neanderthal lineage. Probably kicked himself that he didn't stop.

 

 

 

Well you have to remember that we have 23 pairs of chromosomes, and we get a copy for each pair from each parent, so our attributes are mostly a combination from each parent. The nuclear DNA contributions from our parents are not isolated in the X or Y chromosome by any stretch. The Y chromosome is focused on mainly because it can have intact (less fragmented) and significant deep ancestry information. But that same deep ancestry can be found in smaller fragments throughout the genome. The farther back in time you go across more generations, the smaller the fragments become in todays generations. Some might disappear unless they have significant positive selective pressure.

Edited November 21, 2016 by southernyahoo

[Guest Cryptic Megafauna]

5 hours ago, southernyahoo said:

 

Well you have to remember that we have 23 pairs of chromosomes, and we get a copy for each pair from each parent, so our attributes are mostly a combination from each parent. The nuclear DNA contributions from our parents are not isolated in the X or Y chromosome by any stretch. The Y chromosome is focused on mainly because it can have intact (less fragmented) and significant deep ancestry information. But that same deep ancestry can be found in smaller fragments throughout the genome. The farther back in time you go across more generations, the smaller the fragments become in todays generations. Some might disappear unless they have significant positive selective pressure.

They will disappear if recessive or of contributing to greatly to a negative survival value.

Like Albino Bigfoot 

So one parent with a frequency happening often enough to transmit the information for a Neanderthal on occasion if not consistently.

I am not anti science (don't all the ant scientists begin like this?)

But the mechanism may not be understood even if genetic theory is.

It may me future science.

The molecular genetics biologists that everyone want to emulate are making some spectacular logical errors even at the same time they are discovering useful things similar to the quantum physicists. When dealing with pure math you are lacking ground verification.

So find a unique genotype and then build a theory that attempts to explain the real, math comes last in that case.

Perhaps in my case perhaps it was not 100% genome matching but then do we have a full genome for a comparison?

Edited November 21, 2016 by Cryptic Megafauna

[southernyahoo]

Yeah, some genes don't express every generation and they hide until both parents are carriers.  

This article has an interesting quote.

 

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/denisovan/

 

Quote

By comparing the genomes of apes, Denisovans, Neanderthals, and modern humans, scientists hope to identify DNA segments unique to the different groups. Early results already suggest modern humans underwent genetic changes involved with brain function and nervous system development, including ones involved in language development, after splitting from Neanderthals and Denisovans. Identifying and understanding these genetic tweaks could help explain why our species survived and thrived while our close relatives died out.

 

It's interesting that science thinks language developed after we split from Neanderthals , yet they know Neanderthals had at least one gene identical to ours and responsible for language center function.