Hybrid Hypothesis Dead, Done, Stick A Fork In It....

[Guest Cryptic Megafauna]

21 minutes ago, southernyahoo said:

Yeah, some genes don't express every generation and they hide until both parents are carriers.  

This article has an interesting quote.

 

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/denisovan/

 

 

It's interesting that science thinks language developed after we split from Neanderthals , yet they know Neanderthals had at least one gene identical to ours and responsible for language center function. 

I personally think they were reabsorbed into the predominant gene flow that accelerated as the Ice ages came to an end and that the difference was due to isolation from gene flows. I think they were more creative, imaginative, and spiritual than modern man. The evolution of the speech center in the modern human brain occured well before, I  believe.

 

The science wants to believe that the separation occured exactly at the point that modern man came out of Africa and right at the beginning of what is theorized as modern languages. There are a few problems with that. One is that it has to be very precise and no overlap, no genetic interchanges, and no pre modern human languages in anything but a Homo Sapiens Sapiens.

 

The brain structure was there long before as was the technology (and art?) that would have been a ratcheting driver for language. Meaning in a cultural sense is transmitted by Art, language, technology. Throw in weaving and the weaving of meanings and words, the thrown dart and the projection of ideas, the point of a paint brush.

 

 The pharynx would have been speech enabled, as was the enlarged upper spinal cord for breath control needed for parsing and modulation of speech. This all predates modern man.

 

It all goes together I would think. We have a tradition of seeing others as different and as missing links that lack higher mental organization. I think I will write a book about if a President where to meet a Neanderthal, one would quote poetry and the other would be puzzled. The question is which one.

 

We usually find out we were wrong. Remember when non white races were relegated to the domain of missing links?

We mistake technology for wisdom and worthiness. 

 

http://www.history.com/news/did-neanderthals-create-worlds-oldest-cave-paintings

 

"A new study further bridges the gap between Neanderthals and Homo sapiens, suggesting that the extinct hominins—just like their surviving relatives—might have left behind cave paintings. Led by Alistair Pike of the University of Bristol, researchers have used a technique known as uranium-thorium dating on 50 works of art in 11 different caves in northwestern Spain. In a study published in the June 15 issue of Science, they conclude that the oldest example is at least 40,800 years old. Modern humans arrived in Europe from Africa no earlier than 41,000 to 42,000 years ago."

 

 

Edited November 22, 2016 by Cryptic Megafauna

[southernyahoo]

I found this link interesting on this topic of language. The FOXP2 gene is known to be critical to speech and has a couple mutations different in modern man, Neanderthals and Denisovans from the other extant apes.

 

http://johnhawks.net/weblog/reviews/denisova/foxp2-denisova-humanlike-2011.html

[FarArcher]

Odd.

 

They say Neanderthal and Denisovan come out of Africa - but not a single Neanderthal or Denisovan fossil ever found in Africa.  In fact Neanderthal genomes are not found in Africans.

 

I don't believe it.  I don't believe the "Out of Africa" stretch.

[JDL]

I'm not ready to dismiss the probability that Bigfoot is a hybrid, primarily because our own genome contains elements of three others. 

[MIB]

I agree with JDL.     I think it is **Ketchum** that is done, not the hybrid idea.    The case is not as strong as it would be had her study been valid but it is not zero either.   Once she suggested it, quite a few other pieces were noticed pointing that same direction.   Removing her from the picture does not remove them, those other things still point where they point. 

 

MIB

[bipedalist]

Not a Ketchum thread per se.

 

But if her research was given to other labs blind to bolster her case at replication and the results were confirmed by multiple labs (but those labs would not lend their name to the study when they heard of the subject of the study) then and what I hear a lab in Scandinavia now----her decision to play fool and spoof a journal purchase and self-publish resulted in friendly-fire (shot herself in the foot).  What other options were there if the research was iron-clad it would have been picked up by an editor of a major journal right?  But maybe only if those other labs could be sourced and documented and actively participated in the original article correct?  Or not?  

 

Hybrid maybe.

 

Nephilim or angel hybrid theory I am having trouble with personally.

 

One thing I am increasingly learning from the field and at conferences is there is a large contingent of 'footers that are fully onboard with that theory and those findings. 

Edited November 27, 2016 by bipedalist

[FarArcher]

18 hours ago, JDL said:

I'm not ready to dismiss the probability that Bigfoot is a hybrid, primarily because our own genome contains elements of three others. 

 

Aye.  

 

For whatever reason, many think we've found pretty much all the possible bipedal species.  Our climatologists, geologists, anthropologists, and their subgroup archaeologists are mutually supporting, yet every once in a while, a new find demonstrates we don't have everything to be discovered on the table.

 

My youngest son recently had his DNA analyzed, and aside from being 100% from northwestern Europe, he also has 315 Neanderthal variants out of the possible 2872 variants, placing him in the highest 94% of the population.  

 

I too, think it's what I'd term "hybrid," meaning some kind of ancient hominid - as of yet - unidentified.

 

Speaking with a Ph.D last week, I referred to them as "cave men."  He asked, "what kind?"  I replied, "How am I supposed to know?  The big, butt-ugly kind."  Methinks we'll someday find out, and we'll find out they probably share some 97% to 99% human DNA, but aren't human.

[Guest Cryptic Megafauna]

hy·brid

ˈhīˌbrid/

noun

 

1. 1.

   BIOLOGY

   the offspring of two plants or animals of different species or varieties, such as a mule (a hybrid of a donkey and a horse).

   "a hybrid of wheat and rye"

   synonyms:

   cross, cross-breed, mixed breed, half-breed, half-blood; More

[hiflier]

Would it be safe to say then that branching of the "Out of Africa" thing was such that older hominids left Africa over a million years ago and that Neanderthal was a product of the European joining of earlier species that were already there and had been for thousands of centuries? Later hominid branches stemming from the same original sources in Africa would produce todays African populations one of which was Cro-Magnon who went on to cross with Neanderthal and it's ancient bloodline already in the North. IOW I agree that Neanderthal didn't come out of Africa but also propose that their million plus year old ancestors did.

Edited November 28, 2016 by hiflier

[MIB]

hiflier -

 

No.   There was no "European joining" creating Neanderthals.    They were descendants of an earlier out-of-Africa migration, our ancestors (minus our Neanderthal DNA of course) descended from a later migration, and the two met in Europe.  

 

MIB

[FarArcher]

Everything on the table assumes a steady-state geology.  Where mutations and adaptations occur painfully slowly over very long periods of time.  Steady-state geology is absolutely mandatory for evolutionary principles to operate.

 

But steady state geology doesn't exist.  All geology is catastrophic, and one need not look any further than the mass extinction events defined by geologists - the famous C/T line is a fine example.

 

Just because I find a 1926 Ford Model T in the jungles of Borneo doesn't mean that's where it originated.  Landscape changes - catastrophically.  What is mountain was sea, what is sea was dry land.  

 

Mammoths have been found in Siberia with blue flowers still in its mouth, when both were quick-frozen - something occurred to cause temperate vegetation and animals to mystically be suddenly "transported" to an arctic area.  And frozen so quickly, the beast didn't have time to chew or swallow what it had in its mouth.

 

Lots of assumptions in this Out of Africa BS line.  Lots of assumptions.

 

 

Edited November 28, 2016 by FarArcher

[Yuchi1]

Consider what was considered gospel in 1900.

Consider what was considered gospel in 1947.

Consider what was considered gospel in 2000.

Consider what is considered gospel today.

 

Draw a line from Mount Hermon through the planet and where does it exit on the other side?

[Guest Cryptic Megafauna]

 

On 11/28/2016 at 1:01 PM, FarArcher said:

Everything on the table assumes a steady-state geology.  Where mutations and adaptations occur painfully slowly over very long periods of time.  Steady-state geology is absolutely mandatory for evolutionary principles to operate.

 

But steady state geology doesn't exist.  All geology is catastrophic, and one need not look any further than the mass extinction events defined by geologists - the famous C/T line is a fine example.

 

Just because I find a 1926 Ford Model T in the jungles of Borneo doesn't mean that's where it originated.  Landscape changes - catastrophically.  What is mountain was sea, what is sea was dry land.  

 

Mammoths have been found in Siberia with blue flowers still in its mouth, when both were quick-frozen - something occurred to cause temperate vegetation and animals to mystically be suddenly "transported" to an arctic area.  And frozen so quickly, the beast didn't have time to chew or swallow what it had in its mouth.

 

Lots of assumptions in this Out of Africa BS line.  Lots of assumptions.

 

 

There is nothing more steady state than geology.

Rock flows like water over time but do you notice it when you look?

Glass will run out of a window frame is you give it long enough, just very sloooowly.

 

Landscapes never change chaotically barring a major impact or large volcanic or faulting event.

Sea becoming mountains takes eons, mountains wearing down to plains takes even more eons.

 

Africa was part of North America once but it didn't all of a sudden up and move, the change was imperceptible.

 

The biggest events in the last quarter million years where the ice ages and the did produce large changes, but slowly.

The most sudden changes in the last 10,000 years where floods as dams of immense lakes left by retreating ice broke and went tearing along.

 

The biggest event in the next 5000 years will be increased volcanism as the mass shifts from the poles to the oceans and the sea level rise of hundreds of feet. 

[hiflier]

Volcanism is also the result of rebounding as the weight of ice created by glaciation lessens. Some think excess volcanism is the trigger that recycles the Earth back into ice conditions via a volcanic wintering effect. That effect: volcanic activity and the wintering effect has killed of high percentages of living organisms in our history. Stuff like this is fascinating:

 

• There are maps to overlay that show minor sub-movement such as the spread in the Rift Valley of Africa. The map above is general large plate movement.  Pangaea, Kenorland, Columbia, Rodinia and Panottia will live again in about 250 million years: http://dhrititimelineofplatetectonics.weebly.com/tectonic-super-cycle.html

Edited December 3, 2016 by hiflier

[FarArcher]

22 hours ago, Cryptic Megafauna said:

 

There is nothing more steady state than geology.

Rock flows like water over time but do you notice it when you look?

Glass will run out of a window frame is you give it long enough, just very sloooowly.

 

Landscapes never change chaotically barring a major impact or large volcanic or faulting event.

Sea becoming mountains takes eons, mountains wearing down to plains takes even more eons.

 

Africa was part of North America once but it didn't all of a sudden up and move, the change was imperceptible.

 

The biggest events in the last quarter million years where the ice ages and the did produce large changes, but slowly.

The most sudden changes in the last 10,000 years where floods as dams of immense lakes left by retreating ice broke and went tearing along.

 

The biggest event in the next 5000 years will be increased volcanism as the mass shifts from the poles to the oceans and the sea level rise of hundreds of feet. 

 

We're going to just have to disagree on that - as each geological era is defined by mass extinctions.  The end of the Pleistocene was marked by mass extinctions, and it was no ordinary, vague geological period which fizzled to an uncertain end.  The extinctions were catastrophic, and all inclusive - some 40,000,000 animals.  And we're not talking about millions of years ago - it was very recently.

 

It was so catastrophic, it wiped out scores of species in North America alone with a body weight of over a hundred pounds.  And it was so fast, we find quick-frozen - almost flash-frozen mammoths with green vegetation and even buttercup flowers in their mouths - and they didn't lay down and die.  They were almost instantly frozen and if we're to believe geologists - were frozen and stayed frozen for 30,000 years until they were dug up as the meat in some instances was still edible.

 

In fact, the sedges, grasses, and vegetation show clearly that this sudden flash-freezing occurred in the last half of July, or first week of August.  Makes no sense.  Let's see, steady-state geology and climatology clearly show that Fall follows Summer, and Winter follows Fall - but we have a huge problem here.  These flash-frozen animals with fresh Summer vegetation in their mouths, between teeth, and in stomachs got caught so fast, they didn't have time to swallow the mouthfuls they had.

 

Then, we have another mystery.  The Ice Age.  The planet cooling.  (And subsequent warming - but let's just stick to the freezing part for now.)  It's so weird.

 

Ice covered Wisconsin and even parts of Ohio - that's clear.  To go from the Pole that far South is a lot of ice - one extensive coverage, right?  But somehow, the ice missed Alaska, ice didn't cover the Yukon district of Canada, nor the northern part of Greenland.  Actually, evidence says the Arctic Ocean during the Ice Age was warm.  The northern European Ice Sheet was much more shallow and not nearly as extensive a the North American Ice Sheet.  Even more oddly, in the high areas of Western North America - no ice age.  Odd.

 

Someone explain these mysteries, and I'll still not go along with the steady-state geology/steady-state climatology lines of manure, because if those questions are answered, there's another dozen oddities to be addressed.

Edited December 4, 2016 by FarArcher