Sasquatch: Bear In Human Form?

[Incorrigible1]

Agreed in most part, Norse. There's one thing I wish to add. I think the notion comes from Desmond's The Naked Ape, from the late sixties. Once self-aware primates reached a population density, they prevented any other mammal from becoming intelligent and self-aware, themselves. They thwarted any competing development with bears, wolves, cats, etc. Mutual competitors that had once ruled supreme over our species.

 

Edited August 16, 2016 by Incorrigible1

[hiflier]

Norseman, true dolphin DNA is different from shark DNA even though the two species look roughly similar. But hippo DNA and dolphin DNA are closer even though their species as well as their shape are nowhere near similar. Pandas have evolved a 6th digit which has it's own bone that it uses like a thumb for grasping bamboo. And science has finally concluded that the Panda is a true bear and not a member of the raccoon family. Now I'm not saying that Sasquatch DNA is an exact match for a bear but that it's DNA like the hippo/dolphin relationship is closer to bear than not. Closer to bear than ape, and therefore closer to bear than us. It may not be 98% that of a bear but 97% would be acceptable. Most everything has the same DNA but with differences in different order.

 

Since we apparently have NO Sasquatch DNA on the books even though what is thought to be Sasquatch samples have been tested then there has to be a reason for the outcome. Other than non-existence that is since we have members here that have seen them. Rectifying the DNA testing issues isn't easy and we've twisted ans squirmed in the attempt to do so. I'm no different in that respect but This thread is about the possibility that we DO have the DNA and it tests fine for Sasquatch but we're refusing or incapable of accepting the results as they stand.

[FarArcher]

If I understand you, hiflier, this is based on DNA.

 

I would suggest that these DNA samples were not from a BF body, but from hair samples.  Hair samples indicate a type of bear.  To me, this means that whatever observations were made in gathering the hair samples, were mistaken that the hair was left by a BF, and instead was left by a type of bear.

 

I hate to say it, but if one goes ghost hunting - unexplained noises will be attributed to ghosts.  If one goes after Bigfoot, they'll tend to find Bigfoot traces - whether they're actually BF traces or not.

 

I can see a BF pass through a known area under observation, and when the observers take a close look - they find hair, and automatically determine that the hair came from the BF they previously observed passing right by the location.

 

But it's entirely possible that the BF didn't leave any hair, yet previously, a bear passing the same location - DID.  So they say they got BF hair, send if off, and it comes back identified as a type of bear.  Things like this happen all the time in forensic criminal investigations - mistaken attribution.  This SHOULD lead back to the prime suspect - but it doesn't.

 

Then, there's maybe one other possibility - and I don't want to hit too hard on this one as it has only a very small possibility of being an option: whoever, wants to misdirect the findings, and either misidentify the DNA results for whatever nefarious purpose, or they feel they cannot allow this new species to be not only genetically identified, but declared scientifically - a new hominid.

 

 

[norseman]

Except that the bear dna samples we do have from sasquatch researchers are black bear and other known species.

 

There have been no samples sent in that have stumped geneticists, bear like or otherwise. (Except the Ketchum fiasco)

 

The only "unknown primate" scientific hits Im aware of had to do with hair morphology.

[FarArcher]

There were in fact hair samples where the DNA somewhat stumped researchers.

 

A geneticist stated that the Himalayan Yeti (like a BF) was a subspecies of an extinct Polar bear thought to have died out 40,000 years ago.

 

Further studies indicated that the Yeti was a hybrid of a Polar Bear and Brown Bear.

 

Then later, additional DNA studies indicated the hair indicated the Yeti was more likely a subspecies of a Polar Bear and Brown Bear native to high mountain ranges, as determined by Bryan Sykes, professor of human genetics at the University of Oxford.  He found a 100% match with a jawbone from an ancient polar bear that dated some 40,000 to 120,000 years ago, and was found in Svalbard, Norway. 

 

Then they added that the Yeti was unlikely to be a previously unknown Primate.

 

I stand by my original statements and postulation.

Edited August 16, 2016 by FarArcher

[norseman]

My post is in response to hiflier, sorry.

 

But to address Sykes......Sykes dna testing has been called into question. It would seem that a himalayian brown bear is the most likely candidate now. And brown bears and polar bears are closely related and can interbred. (Google Pizzly)

 

 

[FarArcher]

Yeah, and the problem I see is that the hair was assumed to be from a Yeti, when it was taken from some bear, or unlikely - misidentified.

 

Like most folks conclude, until there's a body - stray strands of hair here and there could come from anything.  And apparently - do.

[norseman]

But to clarify...I know of no north American bigfoot dna samples that came back as "unidentified" bear. 

 

I am aware of dr. Fahrenbach`s "unknown primate" hair morphology studies.

 

The bottom line is, is there is no need to come up with solutions to problems that do not exist. 

 

If we ever end up with unknown bear dna? Fine. But I still do not think Sasquatch is a type of bear.

[Yuchi1]

Hiflier,

 

Methinks you have bearly scratched the surface.

[hiflier]

Sure, could be deep in the weeds on this one guys LOL. BUT At the very least I don't see a mentality that says anything else. Anthropomorphizing won't cut it because we can do that with any animal and give it Human attributes. Nope this creature has no imagination and does only what it has learned works best. it boils down to what and how one animal puts another on the dinner table. Surprise seems the be the go to for technique. Getting the jump on something in the wild takes experience. Surviving does as well.

 

Most animals are reclusive. Sasquatch is the best at the game. It has certainly been a match for us, eh? More than a match. I think the one thing that Humans have going for them- probably the only thing is that we look like them- so they hesitate. Otherwise......

 

I'm going to stay with this bear thing for a bit longer. But first I need to take off for a couple of weeks  See ya's around.

[FarArcher]

On 8/13/2016 at 1:34 AM, Patterson-Gimlin said:

I have no doubt you saw something.  It could be imagined, mistaken or hoaxed.  That certainly does not  make it a  Sasquatch type creature. 

We must  continue the search until  a real specimen  is collected and examined.  Otherwise it is all  folklore  and conjecture.

 

Saw something?

 

Yeah, I saw something.  About eight feet high - I've lived in houses all my life with eight foot ceilings - and only watched it run toward me for about 60 yard, coming within 20-30 feet.  I was close enough to tell his thighs were as thick as my waist, that his eyes were much larger than mine, his eyes were much higher up on his face than mine, that his hair was a flat black - no sheen whatsoever - and that something is wrong with his ankle and probably his knee - he didn't run like we do - more like cross country skiiing - but he was covering ground so fast with such ease it was ridiculous.

 

So if this is not one of those Sasquatch critters - what in Hades would you call it?  

 

I'm really looking forward to the identifying term you come up with.

[Patterson-Gimlin]

My quote was for someone else. However since you brought it up. I have no idea what you saw. I was not there.

It could be your imagination. The power of the mind is a wonderful complex  thing.  Mistaken identity, such as a bear with extra details provided by fear  or you simply made it up.  Were the footprints ?  photographs ? A quality film ? Were you alone ?

The odds of you observing a bigfoot are  very remote.

[southernyahoo]

Hiflier, do you own a copy of 50 Years with Bigfoot, by Janice Carter and Mary Green? I distinctly remember a quote from Janice that Sasquatch were "Bear People".

 

Whether you or anyone else believes her story, I think you would find her account to resonate with what is currently accepted about bigfoot today.  Much of her claims were not well received at the time of the release of the book, but are common today.

 

I personally think Sasquatch are great ape in origin, and retain both human and ape traits.

 

The hair does hide a little too much, and on that topic, I don't think Sasquatch hair should have an undercoat like a bear if it's great ape (apes don't have an undercoat). I mention this because Ketchum based her conclusion they were a people on the mitochondrial DNA results of over a hundred samples. My sample was like human hair in numerous aspects but differed in others but was determined to be fully human. 

[FarArcher]

2 hours ago, Patterson-Gimlin said:

My quote was for someone else. However since you brought it up. I have no idea what you saw. I was not there.

It could be your imagination. The power of the mind is a wonderful complex  thing.  Mistaken identity, such as a bear with extra details provided by fear  or you simply made it up.  Were the footprints ?  photographs ? A quality film ? Were you alone ?

The odds of you observing a bigfoot are  very remote.

 

My odds of observing a BF were very remote?  No joke!  

 

I wish I'd never seen the thing.  It ruined the remaining weeks on the mountain, and I didn't get another night's sleep the rest of the time I was there.  Until then, my life was pretty much settled and the impossible was - impossible.  

 

I've seen maybe  two-score bears in the wild - Browns and Blacks.  Because of the possibility of shooting a friendly in my misspent youth, I not only identify my target with specific characteristics, I pick my exact shot.   

 

It's too bad.  For your own edification, you may want to get to a zoo or something so you can see what an actual bear looks like - not just a picture.  Just in case.  Only someone who's never seen a bear could confuse them with something else from 20-30 feet away - in the open.  And a bear doesn't run about a 5.5 second forty on two legs, skating.  And more - a bear doesn't have the face of a man - though butt ugly.

 

Fear?  Yeah, I thought I was up against a big cat that was sick, injured, or rabid.  My plan?  Work the problem, consider the options.  Choose the best option.  Hold steady, and wait for that one shot at the last millisecond - in the maw  - less chance of missing that instant disconnect when it really counts.  Banging away at at distance with a handgun just wastes ammo and will cause the animal to react, throwing off your timing.  When there's only one choice,  I'll bet my life on that one shot.  It's really not fear - you make the decision, go cold - which is very calming, and wait for the merge.  

 

My imagination?  I'm not very creative - can't sing.  Can't compose.  Can't paint.  Can't sculpt.  I guess I just don't have much imagination.  Mis-identification may be a frequent experience for you, but I find if you don't get overly excited, and simply observe, if you can't quickly find three distinct characteristics identifying what you're looking at, it will soon enough become known and thus identified.  So maybe that might help you with your apparent experiences mis-identifying critters.  I just never had that problem - myself.

 

The power of a complex mind is not all that amazing, except its ability to slow down time.  Now that is a real experience, and while it's only happened a couple times, when everything slows to quarter-speed, and you still have your normal, full speed, that truly is a rush.  

 

I wasn't, nor am I a wildlife photographer - I just happened to be working on another task - and since I saw the same scenery every day, never needed a camera.  By never needing a camera, oddly, I never needed a "quality film."  When I'd give a guy a ride, I just never thought of a camera or even a video camera as part of the equation.

 

This just proves how dumb I am.  Some of you guys think of everything, all the time.  Stuff that while working - just never crossed my mind.  

 

Why if I was really serious, had the gift of peering forward into the future, and realized what I would run into, I should have taken a camera with me everywhere.  In the tent.  Drive the ATV with one hand, camera in the other.  I could hold my 1911 in both hands and use my other hand for a camera.  Keep it rolling while cutting wood for the evening fire, and especially important - not to overlook any possibility - the outhouse. With a directional microphone.  That would be covering it.  

 

Did I have a camera, or quality film?  Man, I feel like a dummy for not thinking of that.  

 

With such insight, I assume you have lots of photos and videos of these things.  Unlike me, who was so unprepared.

 

I for one would love to see some of these if you don't mind posting them.

 

 

[Patterson-Gimlin]

Great response. I enjoyed it very much.  I don't need to go to the zoo. We have bears in Florida. Certainly, not the size of the bears found in the PNW where I have also spent time. My daughter lives near the  PFG site. I will concede I have not observed very many bears in the wild either and I certainly did not mistake them for  a creature  that most likely does not exist.  Of course I would love to be proven wrong.

 

 

So,  you can't tell a big cat from a mythical beast ,but you can tell the difference between a bear  and  such a creature. That is most interesting.  As far as the misidentifications I have not had that experience . I don't claim as you do to see large unidentified  creatures

 

I am sorry I don't have any photos for you to view. I pretty sure they don't make cameras that take imaginary photographs.

You so eloquently covered the camera portion of my question. You did not address the footprints portion or others sharing your experience

I am not trying to make light of Your experience . If you are telling the truth ,apparently it still haunts you as it is obvious by your rude posts.  Have a great evening.

Edited August 17, 2016 by Patterson-Gimlin