Flesh and Blood Bigfoot...

[gigantor]

I agree, not worth arguing about.

 

I am sorry you thought I was trying to discourage anyone. Just putting my two cents in...

[hiflier]

On ‎11‎/‎29‎/‎2016 at 9:37 PM, hiflier said:

Alas, g., you may be right......... If that is not the case then.....

 

12 hours ago, hiflier said:

It Sasquatch still exists then great let the hunt continue. But if it no longer does then......

 

12 hours ago, hiflier said:

 

It would seem that whether or not they exist is and has been in our court.

 

6 hours ago, gigantor said:

Well, I haven't decided that yet. I said the failure to produce results point that way......

 

.... if the thing is not out there, no matter how hard you try, you can't get the job done.

 

MIB, no one's arguing but you. The bolded words above in each of the four quoted excerpts ALL have non-definitive statements. You are arguing those statements is you did not read the "may" or any of the "if's" and apparently completely disregarded the "whether or not" as well in favor of pulling the trigger and going into attack mode. I've reread those excerpts several times and honestly do not see any statement that has a definitive stance against existence. What gives?  

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

There's enough information available for people to figure out exactly what's going on. It's mostly a matter of evaluating the data effectively enough to make progress. It's not easy, but it's doable if you have an open mind. The circumstantial nature of the evidence is largely what makes it so difficult.

 

The good news is we're not far from official disclosure on a key aspect of this phenomenon. Even if we don't get any direct information on Sasquatch, I think it'll be a step in the right direction. Right now I'll say that while they're flesh and blood, the details behind it are more incredible than most people would ever imagine. I think a lot of people will be totally blown away. 

[Gotta Know]

Ontario, could you possibly elaborate on the claim that "were not far from official disclosure on a key aspect of this phenomenon." Specifically, what (presumably) gov't agency would be able to make such a disclosure (or academia?), and how is it that you have this insight? And hey, while I'm rolling the dice, just what aspect are you referring to?

 

I wanna know what you know, Sir! And yes, I accept PMs

 

 

[Patterson-Gimlin]

If the creature does not exist now. Then most likely never did. The purported evidence continues to this day. In my honest opinion

Nothing paranormal about it. Either flesh and blood or myth. Certainly, only one can be true

 

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

5 hours ago, Gotta Know said:

Ontario, could you possibly elaborate on the claim that "were not far from official disclosure on a key aspect of this phenomenon." Specifically, what (presumably) gov't agency would be able to make such a disclosure (or academia?), and how is it that you have this insight? And hey, while I'm rolling the dice, just what aspect are you referring to?

 

There's been a disclosure effort put in motion by high ranking people in the US government that manage the alien phenomenon. They're interested in getting information out through the current president, so it's possible we might get something official in January or earlier. They have a plan that they're following and it's looking like it's going to be major in terms of public awareness. They're reportedly putting a lot of money into it. 

 

Edited December 1, 2016 by OntarioSquatch

[Gotta Know]

Well hot damn! Game changer stuff. Thanks for sharing and i hope it comes to fruition.

[FarArcher]

Ontario, let's assume that is correct - that some disclosure folks are putting some serious money into the effort to release information on some fringe knowledge.

 

There's been even more money spent on new technologies, and lots more money on keeping them secret - just as the Manhattan Project came as a surprise to Japan, and would have come as a surprise to Germany if they'd not already surrendered.

 

I have a bit of an idea on one of our more advanced technologies - and if the suggestion is made that even a tiny bit of that technology came from other species or their crashed technologies, the military still has a great investment in keeping everything secret - along WITH the sources of those technologies.

 

The US Navy was working with dolphins in detecting mines and even attaching limpet mines to enemy ships - and if the US military somehow has some of these BF critters - then they too, will be weaponized - first thing - and no one will want that capability to get out.

 

Natural stealth capabilities, ability to live off the land, capable of carrying significate weights, climb like a mountain goat, cover significant distances on foot quickly - and strength almost beyond belief.  Yeah, I'd have loved to have a couple on my team.

 

Even if these uses of critters or advanced technologies are highly unlikely to be in the inventory of our military - there won't be much of a disclosure in order to keep existing endeavors and projects under wraps.

 

And besides, if someone really had the facts - they don't need to go through a newly elected President - and certainly don't need a lot of money - they can always release the documentation to Wiki Leaks.  Done, and done.

[JDL]

Assuming aliens exist (not discounting it, but there's so much hoax out there regarding UFOs that I can't make a judgement).......

 

Resistance to Government disclosure is less about societal panic than it is about the demands society will turn around and place on Government to keep aliens under control - stop alleged abductions, root them out of shadow government, etc.

 

If our Government has knowledge of aliens, UFOs, whatever; then Trump would be crazy to disclose it simply because it would completely derail his political agenda and force him to constantly respond to the public about what he's doing to control the alien problem(s).

 

Same thing goes for Government disclosure of Bigfoot.

 

 

[Lake County Bigfooot]

To dove tail some comments. When we say flesh and blood we mean a physical creature subject to the laws of our planet as we know them, being born into this world needing oxegen, food, and water, and also subject to death and decay as are we. Now examining human capabilities, we are indeed intelligent creatures, but our intelligence is adapted to an existence reliant on technology. Sasquatch has avoided technology so to speak, and has fully adapted to survive only on the natural environment it inhabits, and that existence is predicated on remaining undiscovered by humans. The physical characteristics, in terms of mass and muscle enable the creature to move at speeds and quickness that our minds and eyes are not familiar with for a bipedal type creature. Couple this with an agility far beyond what one might think possible for such a large creature, able to literally crawl on fingers and toes at a fair clip. Much of what might be termed cloaking could be explained as the creatures swift movement, which could appear simply as a blur. Mind speak, or telepathic powers...we all have heard of the pet who is able to know when it's master is coming and shows excitement leading up to the return, much as aboriginal hunters would be anticipated as when they would return by those who remained. The ability to sense something, or communicate something without words is fairly possible to the natural realm and need not be termed paranormal. The six sence of humans is dull, but it does show its self in certain situations, say when being stalked by a dangerous creature. Hunters and outdoorsman report the knowledge that something is stalking them without ever hearing or seeing the creature, at least as experienced subjectively to the concious mind. Perhaps we sense things at a level we do not always process in the concious mind, but do in our subconcious mind. Suffice it to say that we possess far more ability than we ever attaint to in terms of what our minds can accomplish, this all being completely natural, albeit seemingly supernatural to our current state. The ability of Sasquatch to remain undetected or at least not captured may very well fall into a six sense it possesses to survive, and to avoid humans. Whatever other natural abilities it may possess, it need not be termed paranormal just because we have not fully come to understand such adaptions. Perhaps we share a great deal with the creature in terms of biology, but as far as our adapted states, well we could not be further apart...they probably think we have a whole lot of supernatural ability from their perspective...

Edited December 1, 2016 by Lake County Bigfooot

[ioyza]

Flesh and blood, yes, but the extent to which they possess abilities beyond our comprehension is not at all clear. These abilities needn't be thought of as "supernatural" or "spiritual" if they take advantage of physical processes in ways we don't yet understand. I think GottaKnow's analogy of echolocation in bats is actually powerful; take alleged infrasound, for example. This is a technique that's become fairly well accepted among BF researchers, if only for how widely and consistently it's reported, as well as having a known analogue in tigers and elephants. Yet we don't really know that's what's happening, it's merely a plausible mechanism that's not too challenging to anyone's world views, and seems to ring true with reports of deep vibrations felt in the chest, skin tingling, etc. Some of these reports of skin tingling mention feeling as if they're in an electric field, should that make us wonder if these are EM waves rather than acoustic ones? Even as satisfying as it is to suggest they can create a fear response through infrasound, thereby explaining many reports, it's speculative.

 

I think the infrasound explanation comes up short of explaining the observed effects as well. I was on a trip where I believe a friend experienced this - our third time up to a spot we'd had activity the previous two times, this time a spontaneous Wednesday night where we arrived at 2 am (a poor idea in hindsight). In short, myself and two others went up the hill to look for firewood while the fourth was to go back across the creek bridge to unload gear from the truck. We felt extremely uncomfortable very quickly, decided to head back down, and found our friend sitting without gear by the fire pit. We all sat around a dark fire pit silently for probably an hour, incredible tension in the air. The tension eventually loosened, we found a stack of firewood at another campsite and salvaged the night. Our friend reported that upon approaching the steps leading up to the bridge, he hit a "wall of panic" and immediately turned back and went straight to the fire pit and sat and waited for us, almost without even thinking. 

 

The point is, there are times that they seem to be able to produce a specific response in humans, beyond what we could normally attribute to infrasound, whether disorientation/discomfort in lab experiments or paralyzing fear witnessed in the prey of tigers. Even if we're right about the mechanism, it falls short of a complete explanation. 

 

At the same time, just because they seem to be capable of such things doesn't mean they're "magic" - and the same could be true of eyeglow, mindspeak, and on and on. I'm not exactly comfortable with the "outer limits" of these types of reports, but I don't think it's responsible to recoil from them and throw them in the garbage just because they challenge our world views. If the major 20th century discoveries in physics have taught us anything, it's that our day to day sensory experience is a gross oversimplification of the real underlying mechanisms of the universe.

[JDL]

I didn't accept infrasound as a possibility until a few years ago when I realized people were consistently reporting it, and that's when I looked into it.  Found the info on elephants and tigers, then considered the chest volume of an adult male squatch and decided that it was possible that they could produce infrasound.

 

The capability is one thing.  They way in which they use it is another.  I would expect that larger individuals have a greater range of frequencies and intensity of emissions than smaller ones.  I would also expect that more experienced individuals have a greater repertoire with regard to the effects that they can produce in a target.  What might these be?  Think of their chest cavity as a transmitter and your own body as a receiver.  They create a vibration in an inaudible infrasound frequency, that frequency is propagated through the air, and then a sensitive part of your body acts as an antenna. 

 

An experienced adult male squatch may be able to produce a sympathetic vibration in your chest at one modulation, and a sympathetic sensation in a part of your nervous system using a different modulation.  Targeting your nervous system, it may be able to produce a sense of unease, nervousness, fear, panic, or paralysis at different frequencies or intensities.  The scaling of the sensation from unease to panic or paralysis may just be a matter of the intensity (how "loud" the inaudible infrasound blast is).  To achieve the most severe effects, the squatch may need to emit not only a highly intense blast, but also be at very close range (less than ten feet) to achieve paralysis. 

 

So if one considers that squatch may use infrasound, one also has to consider that they may be experienced enough with it to intentionally achieve specific effects.  This implies a degree of sophistication and sufficient intelligence to learn various techniques; to determine when to use them; to have the ability to select from a menu of desired effects; to choose the frequency, intensity, and degree of focus for the effect; and to select a position from which to emit the infrasound.

 

I've never experienced any of the more severe effects listed above, but I have been in situations where I and other kids I was with (racing each other to the top of a chest high brush covered ridge overlooking our campsite) suddenly pulled to a stop, looked at each other, decided there might be a bear at the top of the ridge, turned around, and went back down the hill.  The nearest a squatch could have been in this situation was about twenty feet.

 

I hope someone is out there doing research with infrasound receivers trying to identify infrasound calls and triangulate them to track squatches.  It would be interesting to research occupational health and safety data on the effects of infrasound at various frequencies and intensities.  It would also be interesting to conduct direct research on human subjects to see if one can replicate the effects attributed to squatch using infrasound.

Edited December 1, 2016 by JDL

[MIB]

16 minutes ago, JDL said:

An experienced adult male squatch may be able to produce a sympathetic vibration in your chest at one modulation, and a sympathetic sensation in a part of your nervous system using a different modulation.  Targeting your nervous system, it may be able to produce a sense of unease, nervousness, fear, panic, or paralysis at different frequencies or intensities.  The scaling of the sensation from unease to panic or paralysis may just be a matter of the intensity (how "loud" the inaudible infrasound blast is).  To achieve the most severe effects, the squatch may need to emit not only a highly intense blast, but also be at very close range (less than ten feet) to achieve paralysis.

 

It may be a little more than that.   You're on track with the sympathetic vibration.   There is one more dot which, if correct, explains some things I've experienced.

 

Consider human brain wave frequencies and the mental states they're associated with:

 

0.3 - 5 Hz: delta waves associated with deep sleep

3 - 8 Hz: theta waves associated with deep meditation and dreaming

8 - 12 Hz: alpha waves quiet thinking, waking calmness

12 - 38 Hz: beta waves related to normal, active, waking processes

 

(Exact values depend on which source you chose, but the theme / scheme is the same.)

 

Notice that the "calmer" mental states' related brain wave frequencies fall in the same range as auditory infrasound.   I'm speculating, but I think it is possible that infrasound is doing what you're suggesting, forcing a sympathetic shift of brain waves into a calm, almost detached state somewhere around 9 Hz.  

 

I recall talking to a witness who said she thought the BF was modulating the infrasound pitch as if trying to play HER via it, tuning it to manipulate her response.   If this is correct, it completely and totally explains some of the weird detached states I've been in around sasquatch where I did not take normal, predictable defensive steps and didn't recognize the oddness of my non-reaction until I reflected on the experience hours or days later.   It would be, literally, using infrasound to induce a waking trance.

 

I think it is worth scientific examination though I'm not sure how you can ethically do the experiments needed using humans as lab rats.

 

MIB

 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2016 by MIB

[OldMort]

 Since we are discussing infrasound, I would like to share an experience that I had a few decades ago. I have discussed this previously with Far Archer and decided I would share it here as well... 

 

I believe it was the summer of '95, my brother and a mutual lifelong friend (who worked for the defense department) were doing a roughly 70 mile 6 day backpacking trip with shuttle between trailheads A and B, in the south eastern portion of the Sierra Nevada range of California. The route was ambitious but doable as we were quite experienced and still relatively young men in those days. Our journey started out at 9k feet and then climbed to over 12k, then down to 8 and back up to 12k and so on, as we would summit 4 high passes during the hike. Up and down - up and down.

 

It didn't help matters that I dislocated my kneecap during an acclimatization climb on the day prior to starting our route, I decided to do the hike despite considerable pain and impairment, my thinking being that perhaps I could walk it off in some way. it turns out I was right but it took most of a week to do so. The important thing to note here is that because I was injured, I was usually lagging a mile or so behind my partners, and saw things that they didn't see that came into play later on...

 

We got over the top of the first pass late that first evening and spent a frigid night in our camp, as some unseasonably cold air had moved in even though it was still late summer. In the morning our water was frozen and frost glistened on the granite. We slogged on for the next few days down into a magnificent lush green canyon, walled in by granite towers - then up an interminable 3,000 ft. climb, the Golden Staircase. I numbed the pain in my leg by drifting into the "zone" of solitude and clear thought (or so it seemed) inside my head, caused by the exertion and repetitive rhythm of climbing. Another couple of cold nights and then a planned early morning ascent of our penultimate pass, would be followed by a mild descent to XYZ lakes, a lovely hospitable place to camp that I had fond memories of from the early 70's.

 

As I neared the top of the pass, I could see my partners silhouetted in the morning sun, already resting in the narrow notch that defined the low point of the col. Two scruffy looking men approached from the switchbacks ahead and as we passed we engaged in the normal backpacker banter of "How ya doin'" Where ya headed etc." I mentioned that our destination was XYZ lakes and their expressions seemed to change. "We were going to stay there too. but its not a good place to go. there's a massive bear problem there." said the dirtier looking of the two men, his sidekick nodded in agreement. I didn't think much of it and moved on to meet my companions on the pass. The men had told them the same thing...

 

We reflected on the previous days hike and started putting things together. That day we had also ran into two men but hadn't thought much of it - but they had  seemed  rather odd and out of place. One was wearing a Ranger cap but no other uniform or identification, the other was a sparklingly clean, snazzily yet inappropriately attired man wearing what appeared to be FBI issue sunglasses. He looked as if he had shaved and showered that morning even though we were some 35 miles in from the nearest paved road. They had also advised us to not go to XYZ lakes, "We don't really want people camping there anymore, there are better places to camp," the "Ranger" suggested without identifying himself. As we sat and rested on the pass we talked about this for a bit, but decided that we weren't going to change our plans at this point. We moved on and my partners swiftly commenced to descend the pass as I straggled along far behind them.

 

At a point perhaps halfway down the pass, I heard a droning sound approaching from behind the peaks to the west and before I knew it an unmarked military helicopter passed a few hundred feet directly above me and made a direct line for a small group of tarns somewhat north of XYZ lakes and perhaps a mile from my lofty vantage point. I sat and rested on a large boulder and watched as the chopper landed in a tiny flat area and was greeted by a figure that emerged from behind some large rocks. The figure was joined by a man who disembarked from the chopper and for the next 15 minutes or so they proceeded to unload what appeared to be some very large wooden crates from the vessel. The chopper then re-ascended and flew off to the east. My thoughts were that this was all highly unusual...

 

I arrived at XYZ lakes a short time later. My partners had arrived at this deserted and rather eerie place a while ago and had begun to set up camp in one of the few remaining flat areas, the same spot coincidentally that I had set up in over 20 years earlier. But something was different now. Gone was the good feel and idyllic ambience of the place, instead it seemed grim and foreboding. My buddies mentioned that they hadn't seen the helicopter but agreed that the place was a little spooky. Later that afternoon we watched in amazement as what appeared to be a massive military aircraft flew high above us at top speed. It appeared to be larger than the size of a football field, as we saw commercial jets later that day for a size comparison. We chatted about this at sunset as we sipped the last of our remaining whiskey, then  we each got into our own tents at dusk and fell asleep. I awoke in the middle of the night, and heard footsteps on the scree not far from our tents, slowly cautiously and deliberately moving about. They were not the steps of a bear or deer, besides we were well above the elevation of their usual habitat. I felt a fair amount of fear and a strong reluctance to investigate further. The next thing I knew it was morning...

 

My partners had heard the sounds as well, and they too, were spooked but reluctant or unable to do anything. None of us seemed to want to talk about it much, as if admitting fear could be seen as a weakness. We broke camp and moved on, our destination being XXX Lake some eight miles distance away. It would be the final night of our trip as we would hike down to the high desert the following morning and head home.

 

We arrived at our destination and set up camp, our tents about 20 feet apart on flat gravely shelves above the lake. Afternoon came and went and then we fished for a bit, I remember arguing with my brother over who would clean the fish... We were exhausted from our journey and decided to get an early night, besides we were out of whiskey. It was dusk and we each got into our tents. I crawled into my bag and luxuriated in the fact that my leg was feeling much better and that we would be back in civilization sometime the following afternoon and looked forward to having a real bed to sleep in as well!

 

It was then that I heard a slow shuffling right outside my tent, perhaps two feet from my head, a step and then a pause, slow and deliberate, again and again encircling my tent. I was frozen in terror without the power of speech. I heard my friend cry out my name in a quaking voice, "Mort, is that you"!  I heard a low guttural sound from the direction of my brother's tent. I could not answer - the terror was too intense. The next thing we all remember was waking up the following morning. There was no recollection of tossing and turning all night as you normally do sleeping in the mountains, there were no memories of getting up to **** or having a drink, there was just a blank gap after the terror at dusk. Nothing but a long sound sleep...We talked about it as we packed our things. We were still creeped out in a major way over the events that had occurred, but try as we may we were unable to fill in any details. Both of my partners said that they too had also heard footsteps directly outside their tents at the same time as when I did. Then, for all of us, it all went blank...

 

We hit the trail, and I lagged behind, stopping near the end of the lake to **** before the long descent. I took off my pack and walked a few yards off the trail to what appeared to be a very old and abandoned camp from a bygone era. As I stood there I had a feeling come over me that I have never experienced before or since. It was a feeling of utmost melancholy and tangible despair, along with a sense of evil, of death and decay. I looked around one last time and then was quickly gone,

 

The feeling though, stayed with me for the next several hours as I descended 5,000 vertical feet to the high desert. During the last mile or so I could see the parking lot still far below, it contained what appeared to be several shiny black or white government vehicles. Feds. What was more alarming was that our car was no longer there. It was gone! I was in a fair panic as I finally reached the parking lot and confirmed that the only vehicles that remained there were all of government agencies. "Its odd that we never saw any of these guys on the trail," I thought to myself, "Or maybe we did!"  But what was even more alarming at this point was that my partners were nowhere to be found. They were gone as well...

 

I threw off my pack and sat silently on a boulder among the sagebrush, contemplating what had happened and how to proceed. A lot of crazy thoughts went through my head as I stared out at the wide expanse of desert where somewhere the road home lay. Had my friends been abducted, "detained" or arrested for some reason? Were they injured or had they just vanished? Had the car been stolen? Where they playing a cruel joke on me perhaps? After perhaps an hour, I saw from the dirt clouds being thrown up from the desert road that a car was approaching but perhaps still five miles distant. I was cheered at least by the knowledge that I would have someone to share my dilemma with. Finally, as the car emerged through the dust and sagebrush, I could make out that it was our car and that it was occupied by my companions!  We had a fine reunion - it turned out that they were far ahead of me and had driven to a small town to pick up a half case of ice cold beers to surprise me! I was immensely relieved and pleasantly surprised! Soon I waved goodbye to the lingering paranoia.

 

We took this seriously for a lot of years. My brother even went so far as to have his body checked for metal implants prior to a full CAT scan. They turned up negative.

After a while my DOD friend claimed that none of these events ever occurred and he would often become angry if we ever talked about them. Then after he retired early and started receiving a massive pension he again was able to acknowledge that they did occur and was in full agreement over the timeline of events. As for myself - it will always remain a mystery, but at least now I have some idea of possibilities...

 

 

 

 

 

[MIB]

Did your share your experience here before?   It "feels" familiar.   You've either told it somewhere that I read it or something very similar has been shared by someone else from the same area.

 

Something out there seems to be able to affect memory.    I don't know if it is something doing something to us or if it is some kind of experience so overwhelmingly terrifying that we block it out and hide it behind a false memory.   I don't know how to know and I don't trust the assumptions offered presented as knowledge.   Chasing some of these answers is unsettling because the only bait for such an event is ... ourselves.

 

MIB