What Would It Cost To Get A Voucher Specimen

[FarArcher]

Norse, I'm not about to copy and then reply to that huge response - so I'll address your points one by one here.

 

You say that a group wouldn't be able to sustain themselves in one location for very long.  I can only imagine the terrain you're referring to, but just where I was - yeah, they could sustain themselves for years - only requiring the hunters of the family to operate within a six or seven mile radius - game was so plentiful - water so plentiful, - terrain so difficult - and vegetation - again, so plentiful.  Maybe - just maybe - that's why they tend to hand around specific terrains and areas.  After all, when a location is good - it's just good.  No reason to go on long migrations.

 

Out of maybe a dozen trips up and down the mountain - three times I found myself in the middle of a herd of deer.  I can only imagine what was on the other side in this huge valley - with other pockets and other valleys that fingered off.  Your scenario is location specific - as other locations have plenty of all the necessities to thrive.

 

Your premise is very conditional  - "until there is nothing left to hunt or gather."  That would be true is some, poorly chosen locales - but your assumption of these "apes" following "ape" behavior is where this argument falls apart.  Yes, apes would likely eat everything immediately around them and then have to wander around to find another spot.  Because they're dumb animals.

 

These are not dumb animals.

 

Next, you take up a position, suggesting that it's NOT easy to hide from humans, suggesting only Latte-sipping millennials would have a problem.  Then go off on a tangent about Davy Crockett, Daniel Boone, the Apache, and Mohawks.   ???  You suggest it's not easy to hide from hunters/outdoorsmen.

 

I'll give you an example.  In sniper school, at one point, each sniper must prepare his own ghillie suit, ingress into a field, advance forward well into the field, and fire and hit multiple targets near instructors with binoculars, standing in a truck - very skilled instructors - who know the field, know the points of entry, know how many are present, and know they're approaching - all in advance.  They are not just hiding - no - they're stalking forward and shooting - without their location being detected.  And they are NOT detected, even as they're shooting.  Moving.  Shooting.

 

 

You clearly don't know - what you don't know.  

 

The insular island dwarfism - is not a manifestation of existing on an island.  Had this occurred on a much larger island - this adaptation wouldn't have been necessary.  The operative is a limited amount of available resources - that happens to be limited due to limited resources.  You DO understand what a mechanism is?  What an operative is?  Why?  It's not a type of land - it's the volume and resources within that land.

 

The reason your 400-pound gorilla can eat things we can't is these tiny little things called enzymes.  We don't have the enzymes to break down cellulose - the gorilla does.  You get hung up on numbers - calories.  To complicate things, you assume these critters are dumb to boot.  I know, you've suggested these things to be like a Gigantopithecus blacki.  That's a mighty narrow set you're working with.  Dumb, eat themselves out of a home, and have to look for another.

 

There's another mechanism in nature - nature to a degree - limits populations to more or less match sustenance resources.  A species eats well, they multiply, but when food is scarce - if affects their reproductive mechanisms, and not as many are born.  No magic, no mystical concept.  Nature.  

 

When I've seen tornados, true, that doesn't make me a meteorologist, as meteorology is the study of weather.  But I don't have to be a meteorologist to recognize a tornado, a squall, a cumulus cloud, or fog.  I can see and recognize these things - most everyone can recognize and identify what they're looking at.  You can recognize fog, can't you?  It's not easy to mistake for a cirrus cloud, is it?

 

I can't comment on 800 pound aliens - I've never run across any.  Sure like to pick up a phaser, though.

 

And as a rancher - that feeds his livestock - if you turned them loose - some may die, but most would find their own food on their own.  The reason you're feeding them is that you have them more or less contained.  Artificially restricted.

 

You like to argue - and I like that, because I don't know squat about these things.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[norseman]

Neither do I, but I certainly know how nature works.

 

Ive got thirteen head of cattle on 350 acres minus some horse and mule pasture.

 

Out of that 350 acres do you know where those cows are standing right now in deep winter? Right around the barn. Waiting for me to feed them. And the deer? Eat the scraps at the periphery.

 

And these are not mambe pambe polled Herefords.....these are Highland cattle.

 

So following your advice? Where should I go to find this large troupe of Bigfeets living in my area right about now?

[VAfooter]

9 hours ago, norseman said:

 

What about presenting your case to a biologist at a university and piggy backing off of his credentials?

 

Meldrum? Or too controversial?

 

[gigantor]

I'm looking to join the NSS membership. Apparently, there is no requirement for a specific credential, theoretically a computer scientist should be able join.... It's more of a groupie type of organization, they value "sponsors" who already belong, but that's not a requirement as long as you pay the membership fees...  we'll see.

[norseman]

Sure. Or any biologist in WVa.

 

All they would need to know is that your counting animals into and out of caves. And your deploying camera traps.

 

Our high school biology class sets camera traps and shares animal counts with state biologists.

[FarArcher]

3 hours ago, norseman said:

Neither do I, but I certainly know how nature works.

 

Ive got thirteen head of cattle on 350 acres minus some horse and mule pasture.

 

Out of that 350 acres do you know where those cows are standing right now in deep winter? Right around the barn. Waiting for me to feed them. And the deer? Eat the scraps at the periphery.

 

And these are not mambe pambe polled Herefords.....these are Highland cattle.

 

So following your advice? Where should I go to find this large troupe of Bigfeets living in my area right about now?

 

 

Per your scenario, you're not on a major migration route.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[norseman]

I thought you said they didn't migrate? Now I'm confused.

[hiflier]

2 hours ago, gigantor said:

I'm looking to join the NSS membership. Apparently, there is no requirement for a specific credential, theoretically a computer scientist should be able join.... It's more of a groupie type of organization, they value "sponsors" who already belong, but that's not a requirement as long as you pay the membership fees...  we'll see.

 

Top notch group. I joined their Forum a year ago.......because I had questions. Talked a bit about Sasquatch there too. Zero eye rolling. Really nice group of guys. Their Forum is a little slow but I check in every once in a while to say hello.

[gigantor]

Good to hear. Do you have an NSS member number?

[Explorer]

On 1/24/2017 at 7:27 PM, hiflier said:

There seems to be only one solution that everything points to: Subterranean. Granted it an unromantic thought but in a rather sideways approach it may also answer the portal thing. They may just simply access openings in the Earth. Even if the population is small the traces you mention that would be the leavings and signs of a real life creature are glaringly missing. And have been missing outside the occasional sighting or set of tracks.

 

Oh great! not only are they reclusive but they live where folks have been denying that they live. Can anyone tell me there's another answer that covers as many bases that dwelling under ground does? Now you've done it Norseman!!.It solves the wildfire issues, the heat, the cold, the disappearance acts, and a multitude of other things.

 

Hiflier,

 

I don't know if you were brainstorming or exploring ideas, or did you really conclude that subterranean is the only solution for the lack of finding the BF's?

 

If you did, then you are joining Thom Powell who in his book Edges of Science arrived at that conclusion.

Big difference, though, is that Thom went beyond and way out there and tied BFs with aliens.

I think the cave idea is just another excuse people use for not finding BF (just like the portal, but less woo woo) with very little supporting evidence.

 

If BF lives in caves, then in south Florida they must be divers, since most of the caves in the southern part of the state are underwater.  

Yet, Florida has more BFRO reports than Oregon.

 

There is nothing wrong with exploring that idea, but I think it would be more fruitful to follow others options, like those that FarArcher suggests.

While I have no knowledge of the reality of where they live and spend their winters, I think FarArcher has got it right in that these are smart intelligent creatures that will know how to survive and avoid us and I think they are doing very well.

I have met several people who have encounters with these entities in CA in same locations over the years.  And, these reports are not in BFRO database (including recent ones from Del Norte).

These BF's don't appear to be migrating; they seem be clans that stay put within their home range (however large that is)..

I don't think these creatures are going extinct when in 2 out of 5 BFRO trips, people ran into them! (small sample size, I know, but it is a data point).

 

The odds for a visual encounter are higher above ground on likely BF habitat than going caving. When in Oregon, I rather go to the Clackamas River drainage area (to places that Joe Beelart mentioned in his book) than going spelunking in lava tubes or caves.

 

Edited January 27, 2017 by Explorer

[FarArcher]

1 hour ago, norseman said:

I thought you said they didn't migrate? Now I'm confused.

 

Per your scenario.

 

The quote was, "Per your scenario  .  .  .  you're not on a major migration route." 

[norseman]

If you say I'm wrong and that they do not migrate? There would be no "scenario" in which I was on or not on a major migration route.

 

I thought I asked a pretty straight forward question. I'll try again.

 

Its winter here. They live in large groups and do not migrate. Where would I go to find such a large group in the northern Rockies now?

[gigantor]

18 minutes ago, norseman said:

Its winter here. They live in large groups and do not migrate. Where would I go to find such a large group in the northern Rockies now?

 

You're being too logical...

 

[FarArcher]

1 hour ago, norseman said:

If you say I'm wrong and that they do not migrate? There would be no "scenario" in which I was on or not on a major migration route.

 

I thought I asked a pretty straight forward question. I'll try again.

 

Its winter here. They live in large groups and do not migrate. Where would I go to find such a large group in the northern Rockies now?

 

 

How am I supposed to know where you can find a large group?

 

You think they migrate, you think there are very few, barely sustaining themselves - if all that's true, you should be able to zero in on some in no time at all.

 

You know your area.  See likely migration routes?  Go squat on them.

[hiflier]

9 hours ago, gigantor said:

Good to hear. Do you have an NSS member number?

 

I'm not a subscribed member of the NSS itself, only a Forum member. But if you are seriously thinking of pursuing this approach I may just join up myself for real. I really like your idea. The NSS has grottos (member groups) in nearly all regions. The closest one to me is in Boston.

Edited January 27, 2017 by hiflier