hiflier Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 You are correct. No Sasquatch in its right mind will come out of the woods if there's a line of trucks along the road it knew was there and was planning to cross. But a sniper (or 50!) would be the only way to assure the return on investment. One could only hope then that once one was taken down no more would be. Even if they show up to take away the dead one. That's one more thing to iron out before the first truck leaves the parking lot. It's looking more and more like the first million will be spent just in the planning of such an exercise. It would be kind of interesting to possibly charge the scientists/government/sniper with murder? At what point during the DNA/taxonomy testing would they find out how much Humaness the creature has? Then they can all marvel at the hairy Human with eye shine. But I digress. There's more to this picture of capturing/killing a voucher specimen of course such as the best season to pull it off. It might be expedient to go in winter when the deep snows have forced animals lower out of the mountainous terrain. When the actual drive is under way, because that's what it amounts to, there will be a lot more than just Sasquatch heading toward that line of trucks on RT. 101. Deer, elk, bear, fox and who knows what else will be running ahead of the huge drive line of people and machines. All bearing down on the trucks and guns. What a mess if there are people waiting there who are untrained with no integrity that open up on anything coming their way. Kind of blows the $25 an hour hired locals out of the water unless some of the initial cost during the planning stages is vetting the candidates who are not military or Law Enforcement. It's easy to see that this is getting expensive and complicated and no one has even turned the key in an ignition yet. I think this is a valuable thing to look at and think over as it does put things into perspective. Sasquatch is fast, can probably cover 40 miles or more a day if forced to. So in order to not raise the alarm what should be the first phase? Rt. 101? Or cutting off the retreat factor in the wild North, East, and South of the highway? That would entail a dense low elevation perimeter guard around the base of a prospective area that extends from road point North to road point South. A semi-circle to be closed by the vehicular positions lining the highway and thus completing the circle/net. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 OK. Most of you know by now that I usually have a point to make when I start off this kind of stuff. Two points actually but only one of then actually has anything to do with us as individuals. The first point is that I...me....hiflier could probably accomplish close to the same thing that I have described in this thread for about 95% LESS than the $30,000,000 with all of it's hidden costs and cost overruns which will inevitably happen. In other words when giving an estimate always double the money and triple the time it would take to complete a job. So, for someone to give me a measly $1.5 mil I will assemble a team and comb a mountain for remains- skeletal or otherwise. The second point is scaled more to each of us as individuals. Spring is in about two months from now depending on where one lives. which is to say temperatures will still be cool, the sun somewhat low, and the snow will be receding. For some the month of April is a great time to be out. It's also soon enough after winter that a skeleton or carcass will still be intact or mostly intact. Assuming the dead lie where they fell then for not much money we can all look in our own backyards so to speak for those remains. Hopefully before things leaf out and bear activity increases. This is something we can al do with out guns, without, camo, without night vision or thermal cameras. A real low-budget exercise to look for proof of existence and get the winter blahs and cobwebs out of our heads. Hit the roads, trails, parallel trails, game trails and generally move out into Nature while the range of visibility is good. It's not about the 30,000,000 dollars.....it's about the 30 dollars. That is what this thread is really all about. It puts things in a real nice bite-sized chunk we can all manage. Two moths. Not a long time to gear up and go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWWASAS Posted January 16, 2017 BFF Patron Share Posted January 16, 2017 (edited) Anyone know if a group, and it would need to be a large group has ever gone out and conducted a sweep where they keep in sight of each other and sweep through the woods? Same sort of thing that was done in Africa to drive animals ahead with beaters etc. One problem would be that the number of people required might be in the hundreds or BF could just outflank them. The second problem would be that BF can simply move faster through the woods than humans. Natural barriers like cliff faces would need to be used to corral BF and drive them towards camera traps etc. Ancient humans used to do things like this to drive mastodons into tight places to kill them. Certainly a mastodon could outrun a human.. I am not familiar with the operations of pro kill groups so honestly do not know what their methods are. You might have a very ticked off BF if you tried this. I think BF know and use common hunting techniques so would know what you were trying to do. Edited January 16, 2017 by SWWASAS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted January 16, 2017 Author Share Posted January 16, 2017 I don't know if the NatGeo expedition in British Columbia way back when did that but I don't think so. Believe it or not I did come up with that kind of a plan just before the Sasquatch summit I think (not sure the year) and discussed the dynamic of terrain and an effort to drive Sasquatch to a road. I didn't propose nearly enough people I don't think. The set up was a line that started in from each end in a U-shaped configuration to keep the vreature kind of purse strung in the middle during the advance. The people on each end needed to stay ahead and deeper into the habitat than the ones in the center of the line to thwart an end run around the group. But like you say it would probably be over before it ever got started.. So the question still remains about what to set up first and where. Still there would be no guarantee that the creature is in the area being driven unless some kind of advanced scouting is done either thermally by air or by perimeter surveillance immediately after a report comes in. Since the BFRO would probably be the first to receive the report they will more than likely keep things under wraps. And that's fine as long as there is a large plan to secure a specimen. As ou yourself know however anyone and everyone can be out there this spring without the BFRO or anyone else should they so choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIB Posted January 16, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 16, 2017 Define voucher specimen. Seems like you're getting answers inconsistent with my understanding of what that means. The type of evidence you're after and timeline you want it on change the cost a lot. Also what probability of failure you're willing to risk. 100% certainty costs a lot more than 75% certainty. MIB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted January 17, 2017 Author Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) Oh indeed it does my friend. It will take a lot longer to get everything in place with the logistics necessary, advanced research and all. Way more time than actually being in the field actively pursuing a BF. Maybe a month of planning along with getting the personnel and equipment together followed by no more than 5-7 days in the field and it should be over. 30 million should cover it. 40? 50? Would it be even worth it? Edited January 17, 2017 by hiflier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twist Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 How confident are you in your ability to bag a BF in 5 weeks if given 30 million? Let's say in terms of %. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted January 17, 2017 Author Share Posted January 17, 2017 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cryptic Megafauna Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Twist said: How confident are you in your ability to bag a BF in 5 weeks if given 30 million? Let's say in terms of %. about 1% or if Bigfoot is just mass hysteria 0% Has naught to do with 30 million as the odds are still the same with 1 million. I would have a hard time spending even 100,000 on the project that fast. 6 months and half a million and the odds of getting tracks or photo opportunity about 5% 2 years and a couple of million and advice of some relevant researchers and an active are of interest tracks, photo opportunity, and habitation at 15 % 4 years and a couple million and 50 % Most of the real cost is time. Time on site, time in the air or on the ground. Time to get to know the area and the cycles, Time to develop the best approach and get used to the best technology. Time to get to know researchers and train team members. Time to created contracts and project specifications and protocols. Time to plan and time to cycle through logistic approaches. Time for mistakes, learning, and luck. Time to dream and tune into higher consciousness. Time for snacks and running after hairy hominids. Time to cross vast spaces during the timing of various seasons, time to find more time as one finds time whilst crossing those vast spaces while dreaming, flying, walking. Time for my nap. Edited January 17, 2017 by Cryptic Megafauna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twist Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 My initial opinion is hiflier is over estimating the money and vastly under estimating the time. CM is a lot closer to what I would venture a guess at but with less odds across the board. Just my opinion of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted January 17, 2017 Author Share Posted January 17, 2017 Good stuff all around. Seriously, it is. As a statistic for people that are unemployed in Grays Harbor and Mason counties the figure is around 1,000 people on the rolls that are out of work. If One was to hire all of them for this project for one week as drivers and observes 24/7 it would run over 4.5 million per week. To foot that bill for Twist's 5 weeks it would run about 23 million which would only leave 7 million for anything else. St has To be accomplished in three weeks or less to have the 30 million cover everything. And yes, a thousand people is what it will take. Maybe have of those that are unemployed and the rest professionals in one form or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIB Posted January 17, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 17, 2017 Hmmm ... my costs add up differently. I've been pondering what it would take since your first post. I think the only certain way to obtain a live one can be done "quickly" (3-4 weeks) in the right season but it takes an vast number of people with infrastructure to match. I'm looking at upwards of a billion dollars ... it probably can't be done other than by the US military. There would almost certainly be some loss of life, not to bigfoot, but to terrain. A dead one costs a lot less if you're patient. My guess is about $250,000 per year and it will probably take about 5 years to hit the 50% probability of success. Might come the first year, might take 10 years or more. Photographs, if you'd accept trail cam pictures, could be done probably within 2 years with the same people but more cost in cameras. DNA is going to be very similar to a live capture if you wish to have enough documentation / chain of evidence to have it accepted. MIB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Explorer Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 Guidance for the minimum cost is probably obtained from NAWAC, an organization that has been trying to kill one since 2011 (if I recall that is the year when they changed strategy from camera traps to getting a specimen). If you read and believe their monograph, then BF specimens were present in that location since they had about 40 visual sightings. Yet, after over 5 years they had no luck. You can blame it on bad strategy, tactics, personnel, etc. etc. But, at least they tried. While I don't know how many man-hours NAWAC spent on their effort, below is a guesstimate. If they had a team of 4 people on the site, every day (24 hr monitoring) for 3 months of summer for 5 years, then that is 43,200 man-hours. If they had to charge $20/hr for the man-power services, that would be $864,000 budget. And that excludes gasoline, truck maintenance, food, lodging, guns/ammo, thermals imagers, etc. etc. What would it cost to get one? I have no idea. I think choice of strategy, location and team skill-set are more important than budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted January 17, 2017 Author Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) Good thoughts, MIB. You mentioned the "right season" and I've been considering that. I was considering winter for several reasons. Better visibility in areas of deciduous trees, snow for tracking and landscape contrast, better exposure of caves, better sighting of personal and roads, lower snow elevations to cut down on having to go high. The drawbacks would of course be the cold, an inability to follow a creature above the snowline. and poor footing on slopes, rocks and around water flows. and probably a bunch of stuff I've not thought of. In the thread "Sasquatch Breeding" and another thread that broaches that subject the idea of a procreation cycle may be a factor on which season to choose. The thought being that Sasquatch may be more aggressive in the Fall if that's a primary mate finding season and soon after that a more hunkering down with less activity as winter approaches. It may still be that Spring might be the best time for both individual searching and group searching however low elevations in Grays Harbor county during the winter does seem promising. @Explorer, agreed. $860,000 over 5 years pales in comparison of 4-6 million a week that's for sure. And you are right, that's just paying the people of which there are only 5 or 6. Not 1,000. So for 30 million dollars? Think of the location, the strategy, and the skill set it could buy. Edited January 17, 2017 by hiflier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Cryptic Megafauna Posted January 17, 2017 Share Posted January 17, 2017 (edited) Track from the air in winter. Problems. You sure your at a high enough elevation? It gets tricky, winds, mountain williwaws, thermals, fronts, slope glide & flight path, stall speeds, uneven terrain, obstacle courses and can you put enough time on task before you have to get back to base. Logistics: how much gas have you and where is the nearest airstrip. Do they run at night? Do you have FLEER. Do they run in the winter. If they don't run in the winter you have another problem. Hard to make out naturally camouflaged animal hiding in deep trees with the leaves on or in firs on steep slopes with brown tan duff. Other problems: money, are they real? Last problem: What do you intend to do if you find one. The last one will wind up being the hardest. and that, friends, is related to the "other problems". Edited January 17, 2017 by Cryptic Megafauna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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