What Would It Cost To Get A Voucher Specimen

[BobbyO]

6 hours ago, Trogluddite said:

 

Not sure how it is out west, but in the northeast there certainly seems to be a pattern of activity in one area, followed by a lull, followed by activity in a distinct and different area.  Almost like hunter-gatherers had exhausted a food supply, left, then came back to the same general area.  Or one group moving out while another moves in, but keeping a safe distance between the groups to avoid conflict. 

 

 

I think you're spot on Trog, I'm seeing it in areas in WA too albeit of course the data sets are smaller as I'm working now a lot more with "last 10 years only" or "from the turn of the century" but I believe that's the way forward.

[Yuchi1]

There are several individuals/groups that have basically fractured and/or totally fallen apart after the initial rush of enthusiasm faded into the reality of the situation. The evidence of this is how many decades (1967-2017) has such been ongoing and what are the results? Anyone bagged & tagged a BF yet? Who was the fellow that stated, "insanity is repeating the same thing over and over, expecting different results".  What I was trying to convey in the previous post is that cost considerations are irrelevant unless you have actionable evidence upon which a plan of action can be formulated? IMO, underestimating the intelligence of the quarry has been and appears to be the continuing basis for the failures, to-date.

[norseman]

A couple of thoughts.

 

1) We as a whole community have zero by way of scientific testable results. Not just a few groups.

 

2) No matter how intelligent you are? You leave signs of your passing. You leave tracks, you leave scat, you leave your dead, you leave behind lost vegetation as you eat, you leave behind prey species bodies as you eat......etc, etc.

Ive tried to do food intake models on what it would take to support a large omnivore creature. It's not an easy task, and I would assume a daily struggle. This has nothing to do with intelligence. We find evidence of Neanderthals existence 50,000 years ago.

[Yuchi1]

The Neanderthals died out, BF hasn't.

[hiflier]

5 minutes ago, norseman said:

This has nothing to do with intelligence.

 

Indeed. It has more to do with knowledge and tradition. Trogluddite mentioned time waves of presence in one of his posts. That's more about not needing intelligence as much as following natural cycles of food supply. 

[norseman]

2 minutes ago, Yuchi1 said:

The Neanderthals died out, BF hasn't.

 

Actually Neanderthals live on in European and Asian Homo Sapiens.....but regardless your point is moot.

 

If we can find evidence of the existence of extremely intelligent Neanderthals 50,000 years ago? It should be a cake walk to find evidence of a extant ape man creature living among us today. But it's not. So the question then becomes why?

 

 

7 minutes ago, hiflier said:

 

Indeed. It has more to do with knowledge and tradition. Trogluddite mentioned time waves of presence in one of his posts. That's more about not needing intelligence as much as following natural cycles of food supply. 

 

When I go in the woods as a adult, I see plenty of sign of many animals. But none that I cannot identify. Or at least what I think.... Sasquatch must mirror animals like bears in behavior for me to mistake Sasquatch sign as bear sign. Or they are extremely rare and I'm just not seeing the sign to begin with.

 

If we were dealing with a cave man....intelligence......we should be seeing signs that throw up red flags. Like fire, tool manufacture like rock napping, art, etc. It seems to do none of those things. So where is the sign?

 

 

[hiflier]

That's a question that truly gets to heart of what this creature is...and is not. The creature seems to be nothing less than brilliant in, and for, its habitat. But that seems to be as far as it goes. Why is that? What is it about this creature that other than having a more Human-like primate shape seems to be little more than a true animal? True animal because apparently it is even less than a primitive Human than once thought. The more we pick this apart down to the real basics the more the animal aspect comes to the surface. Brilliantly managing its existence but making mistakes by being seen. I've always said Human in shape but with the mind of little more than a bear. Seems harsh to say such a thing but I'm convinced that there is nothing complicated about this creature.

 

The Human shape gives it abilities unlike anything else in the animal kingdom- even more so than the Great Apes. That's what makes the creature seem overly complicated. That Human shape launches an entire new level of complexity. It complicates things naturally without the Sasquatch itself being complicated. It's only doing what its body allows and affords it to do. Toss in the high intelligence of a bear and you've got your creature. It is as intelligent as we are and its body allows it different skills- but like a bear it doesn't think like we do.....Because it can't..

Edited January 24, 2017 by hiflier

[norseman]

Chimps are smart within their own right.

 

http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150728-chimps-nearly-wiped-out-monkeys

 

They hunt in coordinated groups to such success they nearly have wiped out a monkey population in one area.

 

Make the chimp, 800 lbs, bipedal, nocturnal, shy and elusive? I think you have it.

[Yuchi1]

Then, using your logic...BF does not exist.

[norseman]

Or it's extremely rare. And it's habits can easily be mistaken for another animal.

[hiflier]

Agreed but coyotes hunt in groups too. So if asked what's the difference between coyotes and chimps I would have to say body shape as being number one on the list of factors supporting not only physical abilities to including dexterity but also in what type of unique signals get sent to the brain because of that body and its dexterity. A chimps brain with therefore have a much more complex set of instructions to play with,

 

An example of the opposite effect would be to put the chimp brain into the coyote's body. All of the lessons the brain had learned will be of no use because the coyotes body shape won't allow for any of the major physical advantages that the chimp body did. Result? I think a lot of the information in that chimp brain will atrophy and eventually be lost due to the coyotes inability to utilize the information. Its body isn't designed to use the information available in the chimp brain. So it will eventually revert back to a coyote's mind. Forced to simply by the physical make up of the animal. Put a ber brain into a large Human-like primate and that for that bear the sky will only be limited by the new body shape and it's new abilities. 

 

This is the level the Great Apes are at now! Oh we can teach them more just like we train any animal and some like KIOK will perhaps take it further but who has the time or money to advance all of them? 

[FarArcher]

10 hours ago, Yuchi1 said:

There are several individuals/groups that have basically fractured and/or totally fallen apart after the initial rush of enthusiasm faded into the reality of the situation. The evidence of this is how many decades (1967-2017) has such been ongoing and what are the results? Anyone bagged & tagged a BF yet? Who was the fellow that stated, "insanity is repeating the same thing over and over, expecting different results".  What I was trying to convey in the previous post is that cost considerations are irrelevant unless you have actionable evidence upon which a plan of action can be formulated? IMO, underestimating the intelligence of the quarry has been and appears to be the continuing basis for the failures, to-date.

 

Aye.

 

If a man doesn't want to be found, within a thousand acres - and he's perfectly adapted to not needing outside support - he's not going to be found.  He certainly won't leave scat behind, he won't leave tracks, he won't pick an area clean of vegetation, and he'll know when someone is in his territory.  

 

But.  If it's a perfectly adapted primitive man - with uncommon nocturnal abilities, faster speed than humans, much greater strength than humans, much better endurance than humans, and physical abilities that humans don't have - well - my money is on him beating the intellectually superior - but in all other ways - inferior human.

 

You miss a target within that thousand acres by three feet- you missed it!  You may THINK you'd see it that close to you - but if you don't - you missed it.

 

A dull, dark hair, and he goes to ground, tosses a few leaves to cover himself near, but not against some brush - you're going to have to step on him to find him.  If you think you're hunting a BF when you go out - you're already in the hole.

 

Assumed superiority - is not superiority.  It's mistaken arrogance.

[hiflier]

It's why thermal detection, even if resolution is moderate, should be part of the toolbox. Sure, it won't tell you you're looking at a Sasquatch but it will tell you you're looking at SOME-thing. Wondering why a Human, or any animal, would be hiding under leaves will tell you the rest  

Edited January 25, 2017 by hiflier

[norseman]

35 minutes ago, FarArcher said:

 

Aye.

 

If a man doesn't want to be found, within a thousand acres - and he's perfectly adapted to not needing outside support - he's not going to be found.  He certainly won't leave scat behind, he won't leave tracks, he won't pick an area clean of vegetation, and he'll know when someone is in his territory.  

 

But.  If it's a perfectly adapted primitive man - with uncommon nocturnal abilities, faster speed than humans, much greater strength than humans, much better endurance than humans, and physical abilities that humans don't have - well - my money is on him beating the intellectually superior - but in all other ways - inferior human.

 

You miss a target within that thousand acres by three feet- you missed it!  You may THINK you'd see it that close to you - but if you don't - you missed it.

 

A dull, dark hair, and he goes to ground, tosses a few leaves to cover himself near, but not against some brush - you're going to have to step on him to find him.  If you think you're hunting a BF when you go out - you're already in the hole.

 

Assumed superiority - is not superiority.  It's mistaken arrogance.

 

Unfortunately we are not talking about Rambo here. I agree with everything you said assuming we are talking about one male Sasquatch in his prime.

 

But in order for a species to exist we need to not only be looking at Rambo. We need to be looking at the old, the young, the sick and the pregnant...... Are you going to be covering your tracks when you are having contractions? What about horrible arthritis? What about mating?

 

How does a extended family of 10 individuals from 6 months old to 60 years meet its daily caloric intake without a human taking notice? They are not being stealth resupplied by helo here with MRE's for all.

 

Ishi was able to avoid detection and stay alive in the California wilderness despite being hunted like an animal by settlers. But his mother and sister were not able too. Neither was his whole tribe. They were caught and killed. Ishi WAS Rambo! But in the end completely isolated from any others of his kind? His personal victory was moot.

 

So how does Sasquatch stay hidden as a family group?

 

 

 

 

[hiflier]

I gotta say that is a heck of a post and says so eloquently what a dozen threads couldn't. And that last question? You would have to ask that one, huh.