What Would It Cost To Get A Voucher Specimen

[norseman]

1 hour ago, Yuchi1 said:

Contrasting the FarArcher and Norseman exchanges:

 

One is based upon actual field experiences and the results thereof.

 

The other is predicated upon speculation and conjecture sans any actual field experience much less forensic evidence to back it up.

 

Now, you be the judge.

 

Actual? Results? Surely you jest.

 

 

 

 

[norseman]

Let's try this on for size.

 

A large troupe of Bigfeet reside in the Appalachia Mtns. They have a small home range akin to a Whitetail deer. And they constantly hide their tracks, scat and forage sign. And if a human comes around? The whole troupe buries themselves in leaves. And "caloric intake" is no biggie.....they can just skip a few meals.

 

Go to the zoo and help out with the Gorilla exhibit for a few days if you feel the above scenario is plausible. A 400 lbs Gorilla eats 10% of its body weight per DAY. And what about winter???? Either they are collecting another 10% per DAY to cache away for lean times? Or they are migrating to warmer weather!

 

For the sake of argument let's say a ONE adult Bigfoot weighs 800 lbs. He will consume 80 lbs of veg per day and collect another 80 lbs per day to store for winter. So that's 160 lbs of flora per day per animal missing from this localized habitat. And this supposedly goes on 365 days per year. The habitat must look like a bomb went off.....like a feed lot. A blind biologist tracking tree shrews would sit up and take notice.

 

The Ranger way of not walking single file on soft ground says it all. Just in macro. In order for this species to survive? It has to disperse big time....minimizing its impact on the habitat.

 

Its not conjecture it's MATH.

[Twist]

Are Fararchers experiences an actual known fact or his story?  I'm not questioning what he says but at the same time they are no more facts to me than Bigfoot itself. Perhaps for you his story is fact, I don't know I reckon. 

Edited January 25, 2017 by Twist

[MIB]

hiflier -

 

Thanks for the links.   Most of the mines shown say "stream sediment".   That refers to placer claims where they are washing gravel to extract minerals, not underground mines with shafts.   I only see 3 listed on the map in  my general areas of interest which are sub-surface.   There aren't a LOT of mines but there are certainly more than shown on the map.   Of the 3, 2 are gated and 1 is operating still.  

 

Much of the area I focus on is federal wilderness area, managed under the wilderness act of 1964 by US Forest Service.   No mining, no logging, no roads, no motors ... not even for firefighting.   THAT is part of what makes those "roars" so darn intriguing.   It's from canopy or below, not atmospheric.   It's not subterranean else the USGS ground movement sensors would pick it up.    It's either unknown animal or it's paranormal of some sort.     There are NO alternatives.   I'm making a personal mission of finding out.  

 

MIB

[hiflier]

It looks like your own research and knowledge has put you in the best place for the search. At this point I can only wish you luck and hope all of your invested time and energy pays off- even if only for yourself at the personal level. It's great that you are out there when you can be. Over these past few months especially I have learned much from you and will continue to try to return the favor whenever and however I am able.

Edited January 25, 2017 by hiflier

[FarArcher]

2 hours ago, norseman said:

 

No, you still don't get it. Bigfoot does tote its family with it every day.

 

So your Recon story is the bad analogy. Because you don't jump into combat with a two year old strapped to your back. And half your team is your parents and grandparents.

 

And just for your information? The hobbit suffered from Island dwarfism. (Flores)

 

 

If they have an area they populate - a remote area, with shelter, or a series of nearby shelters, a nearby source of water, and are able to feed - and conduct the bulk of their activities at night, why, in the Wide, Wide World of Sports would they engage in a constant migration?  That makes no sense.

 

The hunters of the family, or hunters combining of nearby families overnight can range far and wide - and from what I saw - they can cover many miles on any given night.  Easily.  You cover four feet or so every step - you can cover some ground.  You have good night vision - you can really hunt.  If their eyes are twice as large as ours - that automatically enables them to gather twice the ambient light.

 

But here's a kicker - rod cells - the ones that provide night vision to many nocturnal species through special DNA architecture - turn the rod cell nuclei into little light-collecting lenses, with millions of them in the eye.  Due to architecture, there are light scattering (in all directions) nuclei, which acts to share with other nuclei, and then there are the nuclei that focus light in one direction, meaning light can travel farther back into the eye to be perceived.  Now if you have this - unlike us - your night vision is most excellent - enabling those delegated to hunt and gather - to hunt and gather.

 

So no, they don't have to take the kids with them everywhere they go.  Momma keeps the kids, grandpa can take it easy and maybe just conduct sentry duty, while the adult males do the hunting and gathering.

 

The recon analogy - and I know it went right over your head - applied to what I keep saying - it's EASY TO HIDE FROM HUMANS.  Easy.

 

Oh.  And you missed the principle of the Hobbitt.  The dwarfism wasn't due to them occupying an island - it was due to limited land, food, freedom of movement, and other elements necessary for sustenance.  The same thing applies to a continent - with varying land terrains.  If, as you suggested, they are barely able to feed themselves (like the Hobbitts), they wouldn't be so large.  You want to apply one principle to one group, but not apply the identical, same principle to another group.  You want selective use of universal principles - and it doesn't work that way.

 

If a large species lacks sufficient food to thrive and thrive well - it will (per Darwin) get smaller so that the critter becomes more efficient and can better use limited food supplies.

 

But we're not seeing that with BF.

 

You like to take a position, and consider the aspects that may support your pre-determined position.  

 

I saw a primitive form of man - and they aren't like the intentionally humanized forms you see in the Smithsonian.  

You seek an ape.  Big difference.  

 

And I'd agree - if it were a dumb ape, we'd have a number of them on hand by now.  If it were a big dumb ape, we wouldn't hear about their "language."  If it were a big dumb ape, they wouldn't be so cleverly elusive.  If it were a big dumb ape, they'd be more limited to a certain local ecology.

 

But a primitive man wouldn't have those restrictions.

[Yuchi1]

Some people can see the forest.

 

Others cannot get past the trees.

[FarArcher]

41 minutes ago, Twist said:

Are Fararchers experiences an actual known fact or his story?  I'm not questioning what he says but at the same time they are no more facts to me than Bigfoot itself. Perhaps for you his story is fact, I don't know I reckon. 

 

You're probably unfamiliar with the Hre, Renago, Rhade, Sedang, nor Nungs, either.  Maybe I'm just making these up.  Maybe I'm mentioning some folks we worked with.

 

The examples I just gave you - since I guarantee you have zero knowledge of - "are no more facts to me than Bigfoot itself."

 

That's a great and really productive way to consider things that you are personally unfamiliar with.

 

 

[Twist]

I guess your right FA, I'll start believing everything I read online.  

 

If that were the case your surely not the first 1% of the 1% I've met online, but I'm sure I should not believe them but only you......

[Yuchi1]

http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2014/09/eric_frein_search_its_easy_to.html

[hiflier]

Hoookaaay, the four of you can stop lobbing volleys anytime now. There is a topic here that would be good to stay on track of. We've gone way past the "cost" thing which is fine but steering things back to what might be secured through cost as well as effort is a fair enough direction to stay with, please.

[FarArcher]

1 hour ago, hiflier said:

Hoookaaay, the four of you can stop lobbing volleys anytime now. There is a topic here that would be good to stay on track of. We've gone way past the "cost" thing which is fine but steering things back to what might be secured through cost as well as effort is a fair enough direction to stay with, please.

 

 

To come up with costs, one should at least understand what you're going after, the behavioral patterns of your prey, their capabilities, their basic nature, and then figure out how to put yourself in the right circumstances, in the right place, with the species correct support for success.

 

If one can't get the basics right - there's very little hope of any grand scheme.

[hiflier]

9 minutes ago, FarArcher said:

To come up with costs, one should at least understand what you're going after, the behavioral patterns of your prey, their capabilities, their basic nature, and then figure out how to put yourself in the right circumstances, in the right place, with the species correct support for success.

 

If one can't get the basics right - there's very little hope of any grand scheme

 

I think we are getting closer on this. To understand requires looking at many facets of their behavior and abilities which has been much discussed against the background of reports and related experiences. What still seems to be tossed around is the basic nature part. I truly think that until one arrives at a conclusion that fits the mold then there will be too many unknowns for Mr. Murphy to choose from. It is the "mold" that is at issue. It may be able to do all of the things it has been reported to do- leap over four foot fences, carry off hundred pound hogs under it's arm, take a bullet or two and keep going and move silently on top of leaf duff in dense underbrush, see at night, and blend into its surroundings. And yet hasn't advanced as a cognizant species that has moved past a wild existence..

 

Personally? I think it is just short of being a primitive Human of any kind. I don't think it has the capacity to IMAGINE a situation before it happens beyond what it has experienced and stored into it's memory. The ability to conceptualize something yet to happen is missing. The fact that there is a curiosity element that exposes its presence tells me that there is a certain capacity for laying out advanced scenarios that is simply not there. Therefore with the right approach it can be tagged. But in the attempt there can be no such thing as a miss. I honestly doubt anyone will get a second chance if an attempt to take one down gets botched or the extraction effort is underestimated. I know I'm preaching to the choir here so I'll shut up now. As long as one knows the terrain and knows their people then much in the way of Mr. Murphy can be counted out.  

[FarArcher]

5 minutes ago, hiflier said:

 

I think we are getting closer on this. To understand requires looking at many facets of their behavior and abilities which has been much discussed against the background of reports and related experiences. What still seems to be tossed around is the basic nature part. I truly think that until one arrives at a conclusion that fits the mold then there will be too many unknowns for Mr. Murphy to choose from. It is the "mold" that is at issue. It may be able to do all of the things it has been reported to do- leap over four foot fences, carry off hundred pound hogs under it's arm, take a bullet or two and keep going and move silently on top of leaf duff in dense underbrush, see at night, and blend into its surroundings. And yet hasn't advanced as a cognizant species that has moved past a wild existence..

 

Personally? I think it is just short of being a primitive Human of any kind. I don't think it has the capacity to IMAGINE a situation before it happens beyond what it has experienced and stored into it's memory. The ability to conceptualize something yet to happen is missing. The fact that there is a curiosity element that exposes its presence tells me that there is a certain capacity for laying out advanced scenarios that is simply not there. Therefore with the right approach it can be tagged. But in the attempt there can be no such thing as a miss. I honestly doubt anyone will get a second chance if an attempt to take one down gets botched or the extraction effort is underestimated. I know I'm preaching to the choir here so I'll shut up now. As long as one knows the terrain and knows their people then much in the way of Mr. Murphy can be counted out.  

 

 

Hiflier, you'll note I'm very careful in my use of words - I've said "man," differentiating it from "human."  A primitive man.  A cave man.  If it's a holdout from some that were assumed to have gone extinct - and didn't - I don't know.  If it's some hybrid of a sort that hasn't been found in the fossil record - I don't know.

 

Abstract conceptualization (one of four human motivators) is even rare among humans percentage-wise.  Clearly - abstract conceptualization is apparently missing on all levels on these primitives.

 

So, they do what works for them.

[hiflier]

11 minutes ago, FarArcher said:

Hiflier, you'll note I'm very careful in my use of words - I've said "man," differentiating it from "human."  A primitive man.  A cave man.

 

Yes you have been careful and I remember when I first read you post about it a couple of days or so back. What works for them as far as them being cagey (maybe a good word?) is the advantage of having the "cave man" body shape. So beyond lumbering around like a bear because of it. Ironically that shape has allowed them the luxury of their curiosity with little in the way of repercussion. Heh, rattling a pair a antlers together can bring in a moose....does that help? Just kidding. I pretty much think you know what your doing.